Multi vs chippy

[AVB]

You say that but what if the boss just paid him a bit more and never told you ?

 

Is it any of your business what someone else negotiates for their pay ?

That was my take on it. A lot of people getting concerned over what other people earn. I think it's better not knowing.

[Jason_ox]

That was my take on it. A lot of people getting concerned over what other people earn. I think it's better not knowing.

Its knowing you're not being taken for a ride, a chap I knew was taken for a ride his whole working life staying with the firm who he was loyal to and who thought was loyal to him, how wrong was he? He found out towards retirement age that some of the other guys working with him were on average nearly earning a 1/3 more per year. Doing the same job. His downfall was never asking for a pay rise when the others did, according to his management! You dont ask you dont get I suppose.

[nobbyathome]

to be perfecty honest its not your business what money he wants or think he should get that is between him and the owner of the business I work for a courier company paye and there are about 16 of us doing nearly the same job none of us know what each other earns and I believe that's the way it should be I think I am the best one here and worth more than the others due to 35 years experience in the trade and my contacts but for all I know the new guy just started could be on 10k more than me if I don't know I cant cry about it you are worth what you think you are and get paid

[Dave-G]

I'm clearly in the wrong job having read this thread. After operating expenses I come out with less than half of most of you guys. I guess some of it is down to midlands Vs south east differences in cost of living and respective earnings.

[sitsinhedges]

I went into work today and gave the site agent a weeks notice as I had been offered some other work which I preferred. Boss comes round this afternoon and gave me a £50 a week rise if I stay, and it's bloody good money already. Guess what, I'm staying

[winnie&bezza]

You say that but what if the boss just paid him a bit more and never told you ?

 

Is it any of your business what someone else negotiates for their pay ?

I know and that is a scenario but I would think I would find out.

 

No not my business but it is when he starts saying what he wants to me and he's worth more than me. He should keep quiet and discuss it with the boss in private.

[Thelongwayup]

Morning all. We've got a little dilemma on our small building firm and just after your thoughts and knowledge. I've been on this family firm since I left school (13 years) and did a carpentry apprenticeship. I'm one of 2 chippys (boss is a chippy but doesn't work on tools now) and the other is the bosses brother. Now we are all on the cards except the decorator who is self employed but has worked for us 6 years straight everyday. He can do a bit of plastering, the odd bit of plumbing and electrics which is not very often at all and isn't qualified in any trade. Over the last 2 years he's been wanting a better deal and has asked to go on the cards but on the same money he gets SE, asked for a van whilst staying SE, and has now asked for Holiday pay whilst staying SE. He gets £110 a day as it is which I know isn't a lot. He gets more than me but obviously I get a van and hols. Now he was moaning to me the other day he wants to go on the cards again bearing in mind when my boss said to him about a year ago he can go the cards but will have to have less money he said no. I worked with him the other day and he was going on about it and how he's going into the bosses office when he gets back off holiday and putting a deal on the table and if he die at get it he's going. We've been through this before and he's stayed. He wants either to go on the cards and keep to £110 a day or stay self employed and get holiday pay. He won't get either and that's a fact as he's been told by the bosses brother he can't earn more than me. Now the point I want you to give me your opinion on is that when I said to him that in both of his deal offers he would be earning more than me his words were 'to be honest,I think I'm worth more than you'. Yes it got my back up but I didn't bite. He classes himself as a 'multi trader' but what defines that? I'm a chippy and Been told I'm pretty decent at it but I can also tile roofs and do other work so does that class me as one? Silly situation but just interested to know?

if he's worked self employed for 6 years straight everyday then he shouldn't be self employed. Sure he and the company are breaking current inland revenue regs. I'm not 100% sure and don't have a link but thought you could only do 10/11 months or something? £110 a day providing your own van etc isn't much at all. I sub to 5 different companies and charge a fair bit more than that but my jobs quite specialist as there isn't too many in the country that can do my job to the level I do. The lad that works for me hasn't been on any courses as yet but still pulls £130 a day and I make £70 a day on him. He knows his job well though and if needed I can leave him on the job to carry on if I nip out for something. He also gets a bonus each week if we have a good week. I firmly believe if I look after him and he enjoys what he does he will be less likely to moan when we get the odd job that's a chore. He hopefully will be less likely to start looking for other jobs. Hopefully. Pay people what they are worth, look after them and they are likely to stay with you through thick and thin or slate the company in private to clients.

[winnie&bezza]

if he's worked self employed for 6 years straight everyday then he shouldn't be self employed. Sure he and the company are breaking current inland revenue regs. I'm not 100% sure and don't have a link but thought you could only do 10/11 months or something? £110 a day providing your own van etc isn't much at all. I sub to 5 different companies and charge a fair bit more than that but my jobs quite specialist as there isn't too many in the country that can do my job to the level I do. The lad that works for me hasn't been on any courses as yet but still pulls £130 a day and I make £70 a day on him. He knows his job well though and if needed I can leave him on the job to carry on if I nip out for something. He also gets a bonus each week if we have a good week. I firmly believe if I look after him and he enjoys what he does he will be less likely to moan when we get the odd job that's a chore. He hopefully will be less likely to start looking for other jobs. Hopefully. Pay people what they are worth, look after them and they are likely to stay with you through thick and thin or slate the company in private to clients.

That's another situation that could start a whole new topic and I don't know how they do it as I thought it was 6 months you could only work for someone. They must have it all under control as my boss isn't the type to risk trouble. Yes I'm a great believer in looking after your workers and if I was a boss I'd be very appreciative if my workers did well. My boss on the other hand is terrible and I've never had a bonus in 13 years.

[Scully]

if he's worked self employed for 6 years straight everyday then he shouldn't be self employed. Sure he and the company are breaking current inland revenue regs. I'm not 100% sure and don't have a link but thought you could only do 10/11 months or something? £110 a day providing your own van etc isn't much at all. I sub to 5 different companies and charge a fair bit more than that but my jobs quite specialist as there isn't too many in the country that can do my job to the level I do. The lad that works for me hasn't been on any courses as yet but still pulls £130 a day and I make £70 a day on him. He knows his job well though and if needed I can leave him on the job to carry on if I nip out for something. He also gets a bonus each week if we have a good week. I firmly believe if I look after him and he enjoys what he does he will be less likely to moan when we get the odd job that's a chore. He hopefully will be less likely to start looking for other jobs. Hopefully. Pay people what they are worth, look after them and they are likely to stay with you through thick and thin or slate the company in private to clients.

 

This is something our boss has mentioned, but when the recession hit the IR didn't pursue those in these situations. I believe this is still currently the case but have no doubt that as soon as the economy starts to grow again ( after we leave the EU perhaps ?) then it will be enforced again.

[winnie&bezza]

 

This is something our boss has mentioned, but when the recession hit the IR didn't pursue those in these situations. I believe this is still currently the case but have no doubt that as soon as the economy starts to grow again ( after we leave the EU perhaps ?) then it will be enforced again.

Yes, In the Professional builder magazine that's free on Travis Perkins counter, there was an article about how they are going to be clamping down on self employed people. All the bullet points of the things they will looking at for catching people were all what this bloke does on our firm ha. Still don't know how he gets away with it.

[sako751sg]

Yes, In the Professional builder magazine that's free on Travis Perkins counter, there was an article about how they are going to be clamping down on self employed people. All the bullet points of the things they will looking at for catching people were all what this bloke does on our firm ha. Still don't know how he gets away with it.

 

Pretty sure it used to be 6 months continuous but in 15 years ive never seen or heard it getting enforced and ive known some who have literally spent their careers subbying for the same firm.

[sako751sg]

 

This is something our boss has mentioned, but when the recession hit the IR didn't pursue those in these situations. I believe this is still currently the case but have no doubt that as soon as the economy starts to grow again ( after we leave the EU perhaps ?) then it will be enforced again.

 

Way before the recession they didnt bother either fella but it was a restriction for sure that you were not supposed to work more than 6ish months continuous with the same firm.

[mowdy]

In my company any one who is not time served no mater who they are will not get a tradesmans wage.

If you haven't s ever spent your time as anprentice you are not a trades man just a chancer !! .

Why should someone who spends 3 -4 years to get anadvced craft certificate or A Nvq 3 get the same pay as a unskilled /semi skilled worker.l However our joiners can buil and our brickys can joiner and plaster.

I am a qualified advanced bricklayer and a heritage stonemason .one of our labours is a qualified c&g painter

Who gets more pay than the other labours.

Bob

[team tractor]

The way we work it out is roughly if we pay £10 and hour we need to earn £20 after tax, NI, 6 weeks holiday is paid by us and that's without making profit.

When lads are sat down or make a cock up and still take home a full wage they need to realise how lucky they are .

 

£450 a week plus a van is brilliant money and I wish I earnt that amount as a self employed person after paying rent on a workshop and buying tooling running into thousands of pounds.

These people on £110 employed need charging out at £220 to cover wages but who will pay that for a decorator?

We pay £120-140 tops around here for top notch decorators.

£150 -160 for chippys . S/e

[Vince Green]

In years to come there won't be such thing as a time served tradesman.

[team tractor]

In years to come there won't be such thing as a time served tradesman.

That's why I hope my boy will train with me in 9 years after school. I'm a joiner and I only know half a dozen joiners ( not carpenters) and they are all over 60 .

Reps are saying I'm the youngest joiner they've met recently that's actually capable lol .

[winnie&bezza]

The way we work it out is roughly if we pay £10 and hour we need to earn £20 after tax, NI, 6 weeks holiday is paid by us and that's without making profit.

When lads are sat down or make a cock up and still take home a full wage they need to realise how lucky they are .

 

£450 a week plus a van is brilliant money and I wish I earnt that amount as a self employed person after paying rent on a workshop and buying tooling running into thousands of pounds.

These people on £110 employed need charging out at £220 to cover wages but who will pay that for a decorator?

We pay £120-140 tops around here for top notch decorators.

£150 -160 for chippys . S/e

I've gone and got myself all psyched up to go and ask for a rise and then you go and bloody give me doubts that I'm being greedy haha.

[winnie&bezza]

That's why I hope my boy will train with me in 9 years after school. I'm a joiner and I only know half a dozen joiners ( not carpenters) and they are all over 60 .

Reps are saying I'm the youngest joiner they've met recently that's actually capable lol .

The joiners we use have got 2-3 workers between 21-30 yrs old.

[mowdy]

Our joiners are 28 & 26 yrs old and can do a kitchen to a cut roof and oak beams to a shop fitting . Two of the best joiners I have worked with in my 32 years on the tools

[team tractor]

Our joiners are 28 & 26 yrs old and can do a kitchen to a cut roof and oak beams to a shop fitting . Two of the best joiners I have worked with in my 32 years on the tools

None of that is joinery tho . That's carpentry and shop fitting

I've gone and got myself all psyched up to go and ask for a rise and then you go and bloody give me doubts that I'm being greedy haha.

Ha ha sorry. Employed joiners don't fetch more than £12 an hour around here.

You still ask tho

[mel b3]

None of that is joinery tho . That's carpentry and shop fitting

 

 

 

i know this sounds thick , but whats the difference between a carpenter and a joiner nath ?.

[team tractor]

i know this sounds thick , but whats the difference between a carpenter and a joiner nath ?.

The simple way of explaining is

 

Me - a joiner makes windows, doors, stairs, etc

A carpenter- fits all of the above and fits skirting, hangs doors, roofing etc

A shopfitter - litterly that but tends to do exhibition work etc.

A machinist - doesn't really make anything but saws, planes, moulds timber for the joiner.

 

 

Most joiners like myself machine all there own timber but that's only because we are a small company of between 5 and 8 people

 

This doesn't mean to say anyone of us is less needed tho or dumber than the other . We are just learnt different things .

Like plumber, pipe fitter, heating engineer, etc

Edited August 16, 2016 by team tractor

[mel b3]

Aha , it all becomes clear mate , thankyou.

[Vince Green]

The point I was making was there is a lack of apprenticeships these days. We looked at apprenticeships for my son when he came out of school but they were rubbish. Just a way of companies getting cheap labour. The 'new' apprenticeships are window dressing.

 

Our local tech college is now a University (yeah right) but they don't do C&G, ONC, HNC etc anymore, instead its degrees in Media Studies and Urban Development.for people who want to be able to complain that they can't get a job after 3 years study.

[team tractor]

The point I was making was there is a lack of apprenticeships these days. We looked at apprenticeships for my son when he came out of school but they were rubbish. Just a way of companies getting cheap labour. The 'new' apprenticeships are window dressing.

 

Our local tech college is now a University (yeah right) but they don't do C&G, ONC, HNC etc anymore, instead its degrees in Media Studies and Urban Development.for people who want to be able to complain that they can't get a job after 3 years study.

We have two apprentices at college but we guarantee jobs at the end unlike most.

A lot just use them as labourers as you say then take the grants.

Caril###n do just that in my experience . They tried charging us to have one of theirs lol. He's now with us full time after walking out on them.