Side by side day

[buze]

Father in law has decided to pass on to us his shotguns. We have no idea of quality and or value so far. If anyone recognize something or are more info, I'm most interested!

 

 

The 'Maleham' sidelock appear to be very nice, 30" -- it has a bit of gunk on it in places, lovely walnut. It was bought in aroudn 1960's and shot very little.

 

This one was custom made for my wife's grandfather. 28", very small gun that seems to be fitting her very nicely. Lovely spaniel engraving. The family lore says it was never shot. grandad had it made in Manchester (?) and went to pick it up years afterward, and never shot it. I don't really beleive the story as there's some traces of use in the barels, but it looks very nice regardless! It has no branding, apart from "Made for XX XXX".

Edited August 21, 2016 by buze

[ditchman]

is the sidelock made by AYA....and finished in the UK and badged thus ?

[JDog]

Exquisite walnut on the sidelock.

Edited August 21, 2016 by JDog

[buze]

is the sidelock made by AYA....and finished in the UK and badged thus ?

 

How would I know, is there any stamp that would tell me that? the engraving clearly has a maker's name on the sideplate, and it doesn't seem to be added on...

[buze]

I found a Maleham that is one grade down, on gunstar for £3500 -- and another that appears to be one grade UP on http://www.ferlachguns.com/usedguns.htm# -- this one is 7000 euros.

 

Not bad!

 

There's very very little else on these guns...

[fortune]

Both of the guns will have proofing stamps on the barrel and action flats that show where and roughly when the guns were proved. Doesn't the father in law have any more information about them? Both of them are very nice guns that anyone would be proud to own and use. It is a very generous thing that the father in-law has done by giving them to you and a mark of his trust in you. That bit of wood ain't bad.

A bit of extra web info >>. Maleham Charles H. Maleham. Trading in Sheffield about 1868 from 5 West Bar,

in succession to his father George, this gunmaker was also a member of the

London gun tradelisted at 20 Regent Street in 187882 and again from 1884

until 1900 or later. The trading style changed to Maleham & Company in the

early 1900s, but was sold to Arthur Turner shortly after the First World War and

ceased operating under it own name. In addition to sporting guns and rifles,

a variety of →Eley-made shotgun cartridges has been reported. Brandnames

included The Clay Bird, The Double Wing, The Regent, The Steeltown and

The Wing. A trademark was also popular, comprising six shot-holes around

a central seventh, with a heraldic pinion or wing extending from each side.

 

And now>> http://www.gundealer.net/north/southyorkshire/arthur-turner-guns-8572

Not what it was years ago.

Edited August 21, 2016 by fortune

[JohnfromUK]

I have a Maleham hammer gun, London address, made about 1880s - and basically a W&C Scott gun retailed by Maleham, who was Sheffield based, but had a London shop apparently. It may well be a Birminham gun by (say) Skimmin and Wood - or another Birmingham maker who made for the trade. They are often - indeed usually - well made good quality guns.

[fortune]

A little bit more info from the web.>>> Quote:

Originally Posted by grinder View Post

I don't know if it's still there but I remember a little gun shop near West Bar, left hand side at the bottom of Snig hill...

That was Arthur Turner's, a large double-fronted shop at 33-35 West Bar. In c. 1908 Arthur Turner took over the gunsmith's shop of Charles Maleham at 5a West Bar, and he remained there until the business outgrew the space available and he moved a few yards to the corner of New Street. The business was there until the 1990s when the building was demolished, and then moved to Infirmary Road where it remained until fairly recently. A web search brought up this page.

 

More >> According to Boothroyds Revised Directory of British Gunmakers Charles Henry Maleham took over the business from his uncle, George Maleham, who was listed at 5 West Bar, Sheffield from 1854-1857. C.H. Maleham joined the firm about 1860 and retired in 1910. The address on the subject gun is 20 Regent Street Waterloo Place, London. It is quite an early example of the Anson & Deeley boxlock and bears use number 148 indicating manufacture in about 1877-78.

Even though these guns have a bit of age they will be a pleasure to shoot. I have a mate that has a Holland and Holland sbs sidelock that was made in the 1880s for Sir Ralph Payne Galway. The gun is in superb condition and knocks clays and cock birds just like it did back when It was brand new.

Edited August 21, 2016 by fortune

[SxS]

Nice looking gun that Maleham.

 

Some history on the maker: http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/13428-c-h-maleham-rifle/ . Always nice to see a maker that was innovating!

 

As has already been said, you could probably put a rough date on it from the proof marks (which it would be worth checking anyway to confirm it was nitro proved - would be surprised if it wasn't but some of the earliest fluid steel barrels, which would tie in with the dates referenced for the Sheffield address, were only subject to black powder proof - and of course chamber lengths).

 

There's a chance that the boxlock is by T Stensby (a Manchester maker, albiet could have originated in Birmingham and retailed in Manchester), and there's more than a passing similarity to some of his guns online. I believe Cheshire Gun Room now owns the name and may even still have the original Stensby records.

 

Enjoy shooting them, but avoid the temptation to buy any paper cased cartridges. They're bloody expensive and addictive!

Edited August 21, 2016 by SxS

[buze]

Thanks a lot to everyone for so much information already! Just to clarify, they are never going to on for sale obviously... I'm thinking of adding a stamp with my initial alongside my dad-in-law and continue having that gun down the family... Grandad's gun is such a little beauty really. Not the most fantastic wood, but the engraving quality and delicateness rivals my B25 B2C. Both are awesome!

 

I'm planning to get both of them serviced before we fire them. the Maleham suffers from a few spots of dried up grease -- I cleaned the visible parts a bit, but I wonder what's inside...

 

Here are pics of the proof marks on the Maleham, anyone can 'decode' them?

[triumphant59]

As previous posts if you take good photos of the proof marks on the barrel flats a lot of information will come forth. One thing for sure is that the sidelock is NOT an AyA!

[SxS]

Looks like it was re-proved in Birmingham, 1954-1989, for nitro (the Crown BNP mark) 2 1/2 inch carts.

 

Assuming service doesn't throw up anything nasty it looks like you've got a nice usable gun.

[triumphant59]

2 1/2" chamber, the crown over bnp is Birmingham nitro proof from 1954 but the crown over V is the London view mark and I think the crown over R is Birmingham reproof mark so my guess is that it has been reproved since 1954. Can't see the original proof marks, could you give the barrel flats a clean and try to get clearer photo.

There may be someone more knowledgable than I.

[bruno22rf]

Pre 1910 I'm sure as the name became " CH Maleham" in 1910.

[fortune]

Although it wont hurt to have them serviced, there is no real need to, unless you like spending money. All you got to do is get a small artist paint brush and just work a bit of petrol or meths onto the greased bits and free it up a bit. Guns are designed to replicate thousands of actions without any problems at all. A bit of dried grease ain't going to make any difference. Just check the barrels for fit and fix, rod them through. cock the actions and put them on safety with the gun empty of cartridges give them a bump on the floor and a reasonably hard smack to the stock to check that the actions are safe and dont misfire. Check this again with the safety off and again the gun empty of cartridges. If the actions are good and dont fire your fit to go. find some 2=1/2 cartridges of about 28 >> 30 gram 6 or 7s and away you go

[buze]

Thanks chaps; @bruno22rf pre 1910 is awesome!

 

@fortune, we'll I'd be tempted. I already checked the barrels of both (they are mirror like, cleaner than my B25!). One thing the Maleham had is the ejectors were seized up, they prevented closing the gun to start with. I soaked the parts in Naphta and the are now moving, if sluggish. The faces are tight as a modern gun on both, there is no play at all, even with the foreend off.

 

Altho, my wife's adamant that we should get them serviced anyway, for her own piece of mind. I still did your tests and it's fine. With a bit of luck just a cursory glance from a gunsmith will be enough.

 

What are the necessary accessories for shooting these? I saw a guy using some sort of sleeve on his over the week-end, presumably to allow opening the gun when it's hot?

 

I have to say, we've both very excited to go and have a go with these -- I LOVE the idea of using something 'obsolete' like that; I'm a collector of old cameras, and the earliest I shoot with (hey!) is from around 1910 as well.

[impala59]

Enjoy, I think the unbranded POW stocked gun is a fine looking piece, have fun with both of them!

[McSpredder]

I saw a guy using some sort of sleeve on his over the week-end, presumably to allow opening the gun when it's hot?

Would that be a clip-on hand guard made of spring steel, with a leather covering?

 

A hand guard that is left in place could potentially trap moisture and lead to corrosion. Removing and re-fitting the hand guard risks damaging the barrel surface finish, and there are lots of old side-by-sides that look a real mess where this has occurred.

 

I prefer to wear a glove on the left hand, but perhaps there are better types of hand guard available nowadays. Maybe one of the barrel blacking specialists can give an opinion?

[dougall]

I have a Maleham hammer gun, London address, made about 1880s - and basically a W&C Scott gun retailed by Maleham, who was Sheffield based, but had a London shop apparently. It may well be a Birminham gun by (say) Skimmin and Wood - or another Birmingham maker who made for the trade. They are often - indeed usually - well made good quality guns.

I must say the 2nd gun also looks very much like a W&S boxlock....as is well known W&S made lots of guns for others...looks a spitting image of a 700......no bad thing at all as W&S made very very good guns pre 1980.

[dougall]

Would that be a clip-on hand guard made of spring steel, with a leather covering?

 

A hand guard that is left in place could potentially trap moisture and lead to corrosion. Removing and re-fitting the hand guard risks damaging the barrel surface finish, and there are lots of old side-by-sides that look a real mess where this has occurred.

 

I prefer to wear a glove on the left hand, but perhaps there are better types of hand guard available nowadays. Maybe one of the barrel blacking specialists can give an opinion?

?? ahand guard is simply bit of leather slipped over cos with a s/s you hold the barrels and if in the shooting they get hot!

[dougall]

hard to value but for insurance purposes I would put the sidelock at £5000 and the boxlock at £2000.Both look very tidy.

[bruno22rf]

Checkering quality on the boxlock is not of a very high quality + having no makers name would suggest a mass made Birmingham gun such as were supplied to hundreds of gunshops who would then stamp their own name on it. Not worth a fraction of the Sidelock I would say and suggest around £500 when you can buy a nice English gun such as an Osbourne for the same money.

[McSpredder]

?? ahand guard is simply bit of leather slipped over cos with a s/s you hold the barrels and if in the shooting they get hot!

Are there some hand guards available made only of leather?

 

I had in mind the modern Bisley type, for which the description mentions "durable spring steel and leather construction":

http://www.oliverbrown.org.uk/bisley-barrel-hand-guard

 

Looks very similar to the traditional hand guard, like this one from a 1958 Parker-Hale catalogue:

[wymberley]

Would that be a clip-on hand guard made of spring steel, with a leather covering?

 

A hand guard that is left in place could potentially trap moisture and lead to corrosion. Removing and re-fitting the hand guard risks damaging the barrel surface finish, and there are lots of old side-by-sides that look a real mess where this has occurred.

 

I prefer to wear a glove on the left hand, but perhaps there are better types of hand guard available nowadays. Maybe one of the barrel blacking specialists can give an opinion?

+1

 

There is an alternative, but they're not cheap but would complement those lovely guns.

 

Check these out and particularly the ones for SxS which are insulated against barrel heat:

 

https://www.gripswell.com/

 

Edit: Link sorted.

Edited August 22, 2016 by wymberley

[fortune]

What are the necessary accessories for shooting these? = A glove and cartridges.

 

I have to say, we've both very excited to go and have a go with these -- I LOVE the idea of using something 'obsolete' = >>

OBSOLETE < Someone had better tell Purdey >> Holland and Holland and a ton of other gunmakers that they are making and selling a load of obsolete junk. We'd better inform most of the Royal family and thousands of other lesser shooters that fact also. >> Get some cartridges and get out and show the old boys that gave them to you how much you appreciate the gifts. With a bit of love and care they will still be shooting when we are both gone. The only things that might get you if you aren't used to it is the double triggers and probably the auto safety which goes to safe every time you open the gun but dont give it a thought just shoot them and enjoy it, you'll soon get used to them.

Edited August 22, 2016 by fortune