Centre fire handling course Ivythorn

[bumpy22]

 

Who mentored you and what qualifications do you have to mentor the OP?

i was mentored by a close friend of mine who had level 1 and 2 also qualified for rta with man years experience. we already shot together for many years and at the time it was either mentoring or dsc. I did not want to do a dsc as i already had .22 cf with fully open certificate and could not afford the course fees at the time. I was quite annoyed at the time that they insisted on this restriction but went along with it. i gained good experience from the 12 months i was mentored. up to this time i had not been involved in a lot of stalking. I have been shooting full bore rifles and sporting rifles since the age of 14 at club level. i have also done centrefire related course many years ago.

i do not see myself as a expert in any area of shooting gun handling or stalking. but if i can help my friend out with what knowledge i have then all well and good.

hope this helps you mate. but still not sure why you asked this?

Edited October 24, 2016 by bumpy22

[Old farrier]

Oh I apologies I now thing it's all ok for people who have never touch (that means not held, handled let alone fire) a 22lr or shotgun just to be given them and allowed to use them anywhere they have permission as in the see fit in their total inexpierenced hands it will be fine.

 

Oh actually you've not changed my mind at all.

Not disagreeing

With you daff

 

There are other options for a total novice

Join a club they'll actively support new members and give you all the mentoring/ tuition needed and intern do the same for the next

Most clubs do a 6 month probation to weed out the nuts

You also get the range to zero on and meet like minded people

A compulsory course that costs 4 years membership and takes 3 days is not the best way forward in my opinion

All the best

Of

[CharlieT]

i was mentored by a close friend of mine who had level 1 and 2 also qualified for rta with man years experience. we already shot together for many years and at the time it was either mentoring or dsc. I did not want to do a dsc as i already had .22 cf with fully open certificate and could not afford the course fees at the time. I was quite annoyed at the time that they insisted on this restriction but went along with it. i gained good experience from the 12 months i was mentored. up to this time i had not been involved in a lot of stalking. I have been shooting full bore rifles and sporting rifles since the age of 14 at club level. i have also done centrefire related course many years ago.

i do not see myself as a expert in any area of shooting gun handling or stalking. but if i can help my friend out with what knowledge i have then all well and good.

hope this helps you mate. but still not sure why you asked this?

 

I would suggest that Skully was asking is exactly what specialist qualification you had, or indeed any other mentor for that matter, and what exacting tests would be mentors must pass to achieve such status and qualification.

 

But you have answered that in your post, nothing at all.

 

Which is, I guess, why FELWG decided to do away with such nonsense and have instructed CC's accordingly.

[bumpy22]

 

I would suggest that Skully was asking is exactly what specialist qualification you had, or indeed any other mentor for that matter, and what exacting tests would be mentors must pass to achieve such status and qualification.

 

But you have answered that in your post, nothing at all.

 

Which is, I guess, why FELWG decided to do away with such nonsense and have instructed CC's accordingly.

i see what qualifications do you suggest sir??

sounding from your reply you are far superior and should give us your knowledge or suggestions.

the op already has done a days course. so he is good to go now he has the paperwork???. going out with anyone with no qualifications would be complete waste of time of course

[bumpy22]

 

i have only offered to help and nothing has been setup. should of said this earlier

Edited October 24, 2016 by bumpy22

[kennett]

I think you have missed what scully and charlieT are getting at. The police put a mentoring condition on a fac and say dave from down the road must accompany you on x number of occasions. What qualification does he have to say whether or not you are safe and knowledgeable?

Just because he has had a fac since Noah was a boy doesn't necessarily make him an expert, perfectly safe shot, making a nonsense of the condition

Edited October 24, 2016 by kennett

[bumpy22]

I think you have missed what scully and charlieT are getting at. The police put a mentoring condition on a fac and say dave from down the road must accompany you on x number of occasions. What qualification does he have to say whether or not you are safe and knowledgeable?

Just because he has had a fac since Noah was a boy doesn't necessarily make him an expert, perfectly safe shot, making a nonsense of the condition

i fully appreciate this but surely this is worth the risk than a 5 hour course. to gain some experience

[bluesj]

I think a lot of people on here some times forget (me included) that when we first started shooting it was your dad or grandad that took you out and showed you the ropes and when you got your first sgc or fac the local copper knew your dad and Knew you (and probably administered a think ear from time to time) that doesn't all was happen now. So some sort of mentoring or a course may be a good way for the police to know that the person applying has some idea of what and more importantly what not to do.

There is a thread on here about some muppet that took a loaded air rifle in to a rfd to have some thing done to it, should that person be given a ticket for a 308 just because they have some land with deer on?

[srspower]

I think a lot of people on here some times forget (me included) that when we first started shooting it was your dad or grandad that took you out and showed you the ropes and when you got your first sgc or fac the local copper knew your dad and Knew you (and probably administered a think ear from time to time) that doesn't all was happen now. So some sort of mentoring or a course may be a good way for the police to know that the person applying has some idea of what and more importantly what not to do.

There is a thread on here about some muppet that took a loaded air rifle in to a rfd to have some thing done to it, should that person be given a ticket for a 308 just because they have some land with deer on?

 

The job of the Police is to follow the law and the home office guidelines. If you think you know better than BASC, the Police and the home office then lobby your MP for a new act of parliament. The problem here isn't a matter of what people 'think is right' it's a question of 'should the Police be able to make up their own rules randomly from person to person from area to area or should they follow the laws of the land?'

 

Personally I do not want to live in Judge Dredd land.

[welshwarrior]

Not disagreeing

With you daff

 

There are other options for a total novice

Join a club they'll actively support new members and give you all the mentoring/ tuition needed and intern do the same for the next

Most clubs do a 6 month probation to weed out the nuts

You also get the range to zero on and meet like minded people

A compulsory course that costs 4 years membership and takes 3 days is not the best way forward in my opinion

All the best

Of

OF

 

Happy for them to take other option fact is people need some training be it formal or informal, I probably see more people shooting than most day to day and lots (large percentage) are picked up in a short session for a gun handle safety issue, most of these have been shooting awhile not novices. This makes me more nervous of the poor gun handling.

[bluesj]

 

The job of the Police is to follow the law and the home office guidelines. If you think you know better than BASC, the Police and the home office then lobby your MP for a new act of parliament. The problem here isn't a matter of what people 'think is right' it's a question of 'should the Police be able to make up their own rules randomly from person to person from area to area or should they follow the laws of the land?'

 

Personally I do not want to live in Judge Dredd land.

Good Point, well made

[Walker570]

Personally I have been handling guns for 70yrs. My first was a 177 air rifle which shot slightly sideways to where it was aiming and I had to learn to deal with that. My grandfather allowed me to carry a set of old 16 gauge barrels on our partridge shoots ..no action ..just barrels. If I so much as raised those carelessly I would receive a sharp one from him or my uncles etc on the day. I then went through various shotguns and then to 22RF and then joined the police force. After a few years, probation etc the force sports club formed a clay shooting team and through ability I was elected captain and ran the team for about eight years. All this time I was also rough shooting and wildfowling on occasion. In the early 70s I was seconded to our Tactical Firearms team and eventually to the 20 man sniper team and spent 14yrs attached to that department. I also ran a number of shooting syndicates and in the late 70s started stalking and in the early 80s was shooting upwards of 80 deer a year. In 1986 I met with some friends in the USA and in 1988 began to guide hunters in Texas and the UK. I have continued to shoot and stalk to this day. I am banned from shooting on many pieces of land because I refuse to take the DSC courses. I want to know if the experience of the instructor overshadows mine first.

I do agree that there are those who don't have the upbringing I had as a child and these shooters stand out like sore thumbs.

As the law stands, imposing these additional constraints/expense on applicants is outside of that law. Like stating you can't have a 6.5x55 but its ok to have a 25-06. Fired in a dangerous way whatever is at the receiving end will not notice the difference and this occurs on a regular basis. To be fair to the FEOs, many of these things are fed down from Government and their hands are tied, they have to tick the boxes.

[oowee]

I would be the first to argue the point with the FEO about extra requirements added to the certificate process. In this case I was happy to do the course as it would add to my knowledge and understanding. I also appreciate that these things set a dangerous president and I too don't want to live in Judge Dread land.

 

It must be a sensible approach to learn as much as you can from those with experience. Take advantage of the knowledge that's out there from your Grandad, mentor or otherwise. I had military training and used to shoot competition for the Army and rimfire in the field but I am just starting out with C/F and want to get the best start possible.

[Walker570]

oowee, sounds to me that your mind set, background and experience is more than sufficient. Remember with shooting you never stop learning(even after 70yrs ) and that word ALWAYS does not apply.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Walker570

[ShootingEgg]

I have also done the course at ivythorn. Was actually a good informative few hours. AVS ask that it be done and im happy that ive done it. As with any course or training, you never stop learning, and in the field you always cone up against different scenarios.

[Scully]

I have no problem with shooters sitting courses AFTER they have their certificates, but have a serious problem with shooters who go along with authorities which insist on them as a condition to receiving a ticket, when even HO advice doesn't advocate such.

There are few enough people taking up shooting sports as it is, and I feel that if shooters comply and even endorse such courses, then it's only a matter of time before they become compulsory, and then there is yet another financial obstacle to new blood.

Mentoring is nothing more than an unenforceable buck passing exercise by authorities terrified they will be held liable should an applicant make a mistake. If there was a need then fair enough, and if anyone can show me the statistics which state newbies are any more dangerous than experienced shooters, then I'll agree there's a need.

Our shooting organisations have a vested financial interest in running such training courses.