Expanding a business

[Doc Holliday]

As some of you know, I'm a heating engineer and plumber by trade. I've been self employed since 19 and started worked for myself in earnest from 25. I'm now 47. In that time I've had a number of guys work for me at different periods. At one time I was also in partnership with a good mate. He pretty much ran of the office side of things (answering the phone, booking jobs, etc.) and I took care of things on jobs (making sure the guys knew what was to be done, etc.) but after three years we still hadn't moved forward so I decided to call it a day.

 

I'm not sure if it's just my trade that makes things difficult, as in when one of the guys working for you messes up it tends to go pear shaped quite spectacularly, but finding the right calibre of tradespeople seems to be an impossible task. Even if you do find one who's half decent on the tools, the chances are you find out they're taking advantage of your good nature. You try and treat guys well and they take advantage but take an iron fist they say you're too hard.

 

I've tried instilling that good communication is key and that they need to give me feedback and communicate with me as I do them. Nothing seems to work. I tried to get some inside intel and infiltrate a company that seemed to being doing it right (a London plumbing company) and see what system or contract they had. I applied for a job and got offered the position but they day I was meant to start I broke out in a cold sweat, felt sick, etc., so didn't make it in. I think they thought I had second thoughts but the crux is I never found out. I even approached one of their guys to find out what the deal was. Again, I drew a blank but I think it's because there is no contract or system written down.

 

The last 2 guys I had working for me was about 6 or 7 years ago. Things were ok-ish but nothing was different from any other time of having guys working for me. I was spending most of my time running about and wiping their backsides as they hadn't listened to what was explained to them at the start of the job or I'd have to go back and redo something as the client was reporting problems and it was down to something they had neglected to do. As a consequence the customers were getting miffed and so I was having to pacify them, some were long term good clients who I had worked hard to get and gain their trust, etc..

 

We broke up for Xmas and was fully expecting to come back in the New Year running about like mad men but there was precious little coming in. Certainly nothing worth troubling either of the guys over. One lived in Hastings and the other lacked confidence to go out by himself so I did the jobs myself. It got to the middle of Feb and I have to admit it was actually quite nice. Jobs were trickling in, enough to keep the wolf from the door, they were getting done without any drama, the customers were happy, I was getting paid without any problems and knew the work was getting done right first time. It was stressless, and I was happy.

 

I now find myself thinking about expanding again but know it would be futile to go down the same route without having a tried and tested system in place but how does one do this? How do you take your business forward, find the right people and get them to follow your system? The thing is, this would have to be the last time I did this so it would have to be right. Or do I just carry on as a guy on his own doing the work he likes for the customers he likes? There is a lot to be said for the latter.

[lord_seagrave]

Do you already have a PA?

 

Someone to take calls and schedule work would be a good first step. If they can do some bookkeeping too (invoicing and filing), that would be excellent.

 

That then shifts some of the organising, and would pave the way for another engineer to join the firm. Indeed, an engineer looking to start winding down his practice might appreciate the opportunity to offload his admin responsibilities and employing an experienced engineer would save you some of the hassle you've had in the past.

 

LS

[wandringstar]

I think the nature of the trade is that people don't actually work for you, they are ultimately self-employed and you feed them with leads, and they would pay you a fee for this, this takes the pressure off you to keep providing work as they will have their own work. You would find a few plumbers and ask them how they feel about taking on some enquiries, you can then take it from there with the finer details.

 

Ask someone that runs a big company, as long as you aren't near his patch, he may give you a bit of advice.

 

 

I know a central heating engineer who cannot cope with the amount of enquiries he gets, so he just cherry picks.

 

A lot of young people don't appear to want to get into the trades, most people who I ring for quotes are all over 40.

Edited January 4, 2017 by wandringstar

[Rewulf]

I sympathise ,Ive been down this road a couple of times.

I have a car body repair business ,and once employed 2 full time and 1 part time ,they were on damn good money!

Trouble is they tend to think of themselves as invaluable after a while,and start to slack off.

The thought going through their minds is something like 'Hes making a fortune out of us' wrong !

Obviously turnover is up,but are profits?

Once everyone has been paid,are you up on the year?

I was..slightly,but all the stress of running everything ,as well as doing my own 50 hr week at it was soul destroying.

These days Im on my jacks,I still do 50 hrs and I make the same money,maybe a bit more because I can cherry pick.

Less complication,less overheads,less stress.

[Doc Holliday]

The former of your idea, LS, is one I have looked at and did try that with my old bookkeeper when she needed a bit of work. I also tried it with my friends fiance at the time but she kept phoning me asking me if we did this type of work, or that type of work, in spite of leaving her a list of things I did and did not do. Both seemed to struggle with this but I'm not totally sure why. I fired my friends fiance after finding she had left at about 2 in the afternoon several times. Again, I gave her fair warning and told her that she was employed until 5pm and that because she was a my friend's fiancé she wasn't to take liberties.

 

I do, however like the latter part of your post. I hadn't thought about that. Maybe will make enquiries.

 

Wanderingstar, the London company was Pimlico Plumbers

 

Rewulf, you are a kindred. It's true. Looking back, I was never really better off financially. I think you need to build things up to a good team of 10 before you can employ a manager to oversee them.

 

I have to say that cherry picking is pretty much all I do but part of me can't help but think I can make more of this business. I think part of my trouble is I genuinely care for my reputation and what my clients think. I don't think old Charlie Mullins does. From what I heard, from the local guy who works for them, is that if the client doesn't pay then he makes the engineer pay as it must have been something they did for the client to withhold payment.

[gav05]

In the exact same position I have tried and iv concluded it isn't possible. Find good honest labour is not possible. If there good the work for themselves.... If there rubbish the job hop or set up changing taps. Iv had gas engines "qualified" that couldn't fit a combi properly or couldn't solder . They lasted a day. And it always comes back on you as director and owner. If your running 3 blokes and things are going well I'd stick at it. The next step is going to cost high thousands and trust me the risk isn't worth it contracts where you get screwed on pricing year after year or let down by staff and get hammered on kpi. it all just starts to hemorrhage money... I have seen several companies get to the 10 blokes mark and collapse back to 3/4 due to lack of work.you think 10 blokes everyday. Alot of work needed. You pretty much have to be in the office 24/7 and on the tools fixing there mistakes then you get into the realms of having a HR department accounts/admin then quoting etc. Holidays pension. Vans/ tools/ storage. All£££££ unless you are very fortunate and some are. be prepared for a long up hill struggle. And a potentially costly mistake. I had a hefty 5 figure loss last year due to some poor expansion dissisions and luckliy Have bounced back due to having plenty of long term business relationship and contacts.some from poor advice some from my doing being to kind natured and giving people a chance. If you can I'd try start with sub contractors and see how you do if things work then offer them on the books but it's a massive risk. There aren't that many big plumbing firms about. Because good labour is expensive and equals less profit and pork labour is poor work equally less as you have to put it right. I've always said if I could clone myself and one or two others I know I'd be worth millions.

[Prospero]

Or give employess a profit share scheme, that way they are invested in the business a bit more.

 

In the legal profession, up and coming solicitors or barristers can achieve partner status, that stops them setting up competing practices and retains staff both in terms of loyalty and effort. Many trades and quasi professions could take this example as a way to do the same. I run a small pest control business and have often thought about taking someone on, like your trade, the reality is most will use it as a way to get a foothold in the job and then go off on their own and take as many of your customers as they can!

[wandringstar]

I don't recall asking who the company was

[Me matt]

I was in the same position, over and over again for years. Gave up & stuck to doing everything myself (fencing & landscapes).

As already mentioned-most wanted a bit of extra experience on their own at someone else's expense, then went off to do their own thing (unsuccessfully in most cases).

I now just back up projects and tackle everything on my own, some days are a proper struggle - lifting 9' concrete corner posts on your own is NOT fun.

Plus side is- everything is spot on, happy clients & great profit margins.

If I ever get a quiet spell I subcontract local authority work without the worry of keeping blokes busy on less favourable rates.

I'll never be rich, but I don't have much to worry about.

[Rupert]

I was a bricklaying contractor,now developer, i have experienced the exact same problems as you as i tried different things to grow the business, i came to the conclusion those lads who are the right caliber are out there trying to do the exact same as you,make the extra dollar, they dont want to make you a penny, those who will work for you, can add up, dont own an alarm clock, come with baggage,i gave up before i found the solution and moved on to house building, now i use the motivated lads as i need the commitment and the quality and im there full time being a pain there bum.

[Vince Green]

A lot of young people don't appear to want to get into the trades

A lot who want to cant

[wandringstar]

A lot who want to cant

 

 

what's stopping them?

[Blackpowder]

I was self employed in the OP trades for 20 years or so. One man me the boss, estimator, office worker , van driver, sweeper upper. I knew I was always working, never worried about materials being pilfered and best of all could take time off when I wanted to to pursue sport and hobbies.

 

Blackpowder

[Vince Green]

what's stopping them?

no way in, companies don't want to take on apprentices anymore, most companies don't have men on the cards to train an apprentice, very few technical colleges, the 'so called' apprenticships the kids do get offered these days on government schemes are just slave labour.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Vince Green

[wandringstar]

no way in, companies don't want to take on apprentices anymore, most companies don't have men on the cards to train an apprentice, very few technical colleges, the 'so called' apprenticships the kids do get offered these days on government schemes are just slave labour.

 

 

that's disgraceful if that's the case, you know what, it would be worth youngsters getting in touch with local traders, and asking for an apprenticeship on half minimum wage, with an eye on the future big picture. I would.

[Lloyd90]

 

 

that's disgraceful if that's the case, you know what, it would be worth youngsters getting in touch with local traders, and asking for an apprenticeship on half minimum wage, with an eye on the future big picture. I would.

 

Young people doing decent trades should get similar finance and support that kids going to uni get.

 

Kids going to uni these days are doing degrees that can't get them a job! Several people who were on my sports team last year have no graduated with £30K plus debt, and have gone working in bars and restaurants! Whilst your there though uni is good fun, you go out a few times a week, meet lots of mates and get your leg over!

 

Maybe introducing trade schools similar to this with similar support would put kids in better positions for employment whilst also being attractive for the whole "good experience" factor?! One of the good things about uni, it teaches you to budget (to be able to go out 3 times a week), it teaches you to live away from home and to work to deadlines (or you fail).

[Rupert]

Apprenticeships need some funding,incentives for trader to take them on,none of use are philanthropists, they leave for the better money before you make a penny out of them.

[wandringstar]

any kid with a bit of get up and go, and nous, ought to be able to see the opportunity in this, load up on plumbing books, pay for a course, do a bit for your mum and dad, get a van, get an advert, and get earning.

 

No good waiting for a politician to gift you your life.

[gav05]

Apprentice are dangerous they have so many rights and you have non sign them up on a apprenticeship agreement. And it can cost you big search ACAS employment tribunal apprenticeship. Iv been there it's a joke the government wonders why no one wants to take any on and most drop out in the first year.

[wandringstar]

what a back to front world.

[HDAV]

The firm I just left grew from family business dad and 3 lads to 30 men in a generation, the sons were the labour starting out and now one is director. Having been self employed and now working for a bigger firm (all on same industry a couple have become clear.

 

1: people deal with people, business' deal with business' if your client base are domestic hey like dealing with a person they know not a random bloke in a van, a business expects the guy that quotes to not be the guy doing work!

 

2: there great young guys out there but those guys will always have plenty of work pretty much on their terms as an employee, subby or solo.

 

3: Appretince ships work both ways there is an argument for paying for the job they do rather than what you can get away with, but perhaps approach a college we got a great lad through the college as his "sponsor firm" went bust and he would hav e not been able to complete his college course without a job.

 

Look at people who are older (ok baggage) but plenty of people are retraining in their 30's 40's and even 50's so perhaps if the on he job stuff is where you are best look for some one to compliment you rather than replace you.

 

 

PS I need a good heating engineer ! Bonkers heating system is driving me nuts!

[Doc Holliday]

With older people they still need to be earning a married man's wage which, for a guy on his own, isn't sustainable for any length of time. With every 'trainee' I've had I've always been honest and upfront telling them I will push them hard. This is for two reasons. 1 - I want them to learn quickly so they can start doing simple jobs which covers their wages and, if lucky, I'd make some on too. 2 - It tests their mettle. They need to be able to take things on quickly and recall it for future use. Unfortunately most quickly realised that it wasn't a case of every plumber is millionaire. The reality sunk in that we work as hard as any folk out there and, if we do earn good money then it's because we're worth it.

 

One lad I had lasted 3 days. He seemed half intelligent and quite presentable. I asked what he was looking to earn. He told me ge was looking for £8.50 per hour. I actually thought he must be mustard commanding that figure but it quickly became apparent that he had no memory recall ability and couldn't even do simple maths in his head. I mean like 10x table simple.

 

Even with the recall bit, I distilled a simple test we have to do on gas down to pressures and times and asked him to recite it back to me. After 2 days of going over it I eventually asked that he give me just one aspect, a pressure or a time element but he just couldn't do it.

 

What problems are you experiencing with your heating system. PM me if you prefer.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Doc Holliday

[B25Modelman]

I had my own engineering company from 1986 to 2009 which at one point employed 9 people. From it I learned one thing...don't be an employer, work for someone else on PAYE.

[dbob]

I started out as a freelance graphic designer and as the work load increased I took on a young lad to help out. I struck gold with this guy as he was one of the 'good' ones. As the business grew I employed more staff, but to be honest this is where things started to go downhill. I am a self confessed perfectionist, but unfortunately a lot of people I took on just weren't built that way. Sloppiness and general poor attention to detail meant I was spending too much time re-doing their work. I think when it's your business you have a different mind set that employees just don't share. Managing them was frustrating to the point of making me irritable, stressed and unhappy in my work.

 

Anyway fast forward a few years and things have changed and now it's back to just me, on my own in my home studio, happier than ever. To be honest taking on staff is something I would never do again, it's more hassle than it's worth. Finding the good guys in my field is not easy, so now if I get busy I will outsource to reliable freelancers.

[wandringstar]

well there must be a way to do it, millions of companies do it every day.