MrM Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) I can't quite believe how stupid Gina Miller and the likes of Nick Clegg are. At the end of the day, the people voted and Theresa May has staked her future on delivering the will of the people. Do they honestly fancy their chances of bringing down the Government - because that is what is at stake. I seriously question the motives of these halfwits. It certainly isn't protecting democracy. Any politician dragging their feet will feel the wrath of an electorate, who are determined to be heard. To be fair Gordon, no one really cares about Clegg - he can bleat on as much as he wants - wont really make any difference. It will be very interesting to see though how many of the MPs do vote against the government in the debate and if so under what auspices they do (Ken Clark has already said he will as the majority of the voters in his constituency voted to stay). However, as you say T May has pinned her colours to the Brexit mast and as such, it will be political suicide if she allows it to drag on past March. From what I have read the government has already got a very brief and succinct bill waiting to go to parliament in the next couple of weeks. Edited January 24, 2017 by MrM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 who is this woman really? Well she wasn't born in this country, she comes from Gyana so no doubt some people will be saying whats it to do with her anyway. The truth is that she has campaigned on some pretty good causes in the past but she is very much a campaigner. I think she loves the limelight and the media attention. She over played her hand today after the judgement by calling the Government 'despots' which hasn't done her any favours. The problem for the remain campaign now is that they seem to be collecting self publicists desperate to get their faces in front of the camera at every opportunity. It is starting to look a bit shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 We get lots of complaints when threads deteriorate and get closed. So we suggest that if anyone finds it hard to debate, or comment, without making personal jibes at other members, then don't bother posting. Keep it friendly and polite,as if we have to start removing posts, there may be a few "holidays" being granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 The lack of understanding is entirely yours. The primacy of EU law was authorised by our sovereign parliament. The EU was not, therefore 'riding roughshod'. What Theresa May was trying to do was make a power grab for the executive and ignore the will of our sovereign parliament and our constitutional laws. Entirely different. Also, you haven't explicitly said it, but it looks as though you aren't aware of the role of the ECtHR and how that has nothing to do with the EU or Brexit... You are trying to make the argument fit your jaded remoaner views,so youre saying we authorised the EU to tell us how to administer and change those '1000 year old English laws' you mentioned ? Even if we did originally empower them,they soon morphed into a dictatorial mess. But you cant escape the fact,the majority voted out. But no you say ,we didnt understand what we were voting for,it should have been put to parliament,THAT would have been democratic,not this referendum nonsense And whats this about May and a power grab? She doesnt have to run it past parliament ,because the people have already voted out! And you say I dont understand ? It seems pretty clear to me. And yes I know the ECHR is a separate entity to the EU ,could one exist without the other? Hopefully we can pull out of that stupid project too,its like the EU in miniature ,toothless ,naive and meddlesome,never mind being an expensive club for lawyers to swing-and us to pay for. Your original comment held no weight ,and still doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I believe Theresa May has said we will not be bound by the ECHR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 You are trying to make the argument fit your jaded remoaner views,so youre saying we authorised the EU to tell us how to administer and change those '1000 year old English laws' you mentioned ? Even if we did originally empower them,they soon morphed into a dictatorial mess. But you cant escape the fact,the majority voted out. But no you say ,we didnt understand what we were voting for,it should have been put to parliament,THAT would have been democratic,not this referendum nonsense And whats this about May and a power grab? She doesnt have to run it past parliament ,because the people have already voted out! And you say I dont understand ? It seems pretty clear to me. And yes I know the ECHR is a separate entity to the EU ,could one exist without the other? Hopefully we can pull out of that stupid project too,its like the EU in miniature ,toothless ,naive and meddlesome,never mind being an expensive club for lawyers to swing-and us to pay for. Your original comment held no weight ,and still doesnt. You are appealing to powers that have no basis in UK constitutional law like non-binding referenda and executive action. She does have to run this by parliament. You are quite simply wrong. To coin a phrase I'm sure you love - you lost, get over it. Bremoaner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldivalloch Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I can't quite believe how stupid Gina Miller and the likes of Nick Clegg are. At the end of the day, the people voted and Theresa May has staked her future on delivering the will of the people. Do they honestly fancy their chances of bringing down the Government - because that is what is at stake. I seriously question the motives of these halfwits. It certainly isn't protecting democracy. Any politician dragging their feet will feel the wrath of an electorate, who are determined to be heard. Gordon R, I usually respect your opinions, but this post verges on silly. Do you REALLY believe that Gina Miller is trying to bring down the government? And she's certainly no "halfwit". Unless you have been hiding an enormous light under a massive bushel, I suspect she has the edge on you in the achievement stakes..... And what she did was actually very much in the interests of democracy - witness the consequent Supreme Court ruling that the government must pay due deference to parliament. Are you REALLY suggesting that that is contrary to the principles of democracy? It may be worth mentioning at this point that the word "democracy" is being bandied about very freely these days. Democracy is, as most of us know, government by the people (and by the people's elected representatives). Democracy is arguably the least worst of political systems and it certainly beats totalitarianism, for example. One man (or woman) sane and at liberty, one vote, it's a great concept, but unfortunately it imposes no test on the individual voter's capacity to exercise that vote wisely. The democratic process has had some very unfortunate outcomes in the past, so let's not get too carried away with the belief that "the people" always know what's best for them, the electorate and the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 The referendum was just a poll, not a vote like an election. So there fore it isn't legally binding. So what if David Cameron said he would carry out the will of the people, politicians lie. Just like Nigel ferage when he promised £350 million for the NHS, when we got out of the EU. The fact is, we are just pawns. And we will never be anything more. I'm just going to cruise along in blissful ignorance until something actually happens that I need to worry about. Peace ✌️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 The referendum was just a poll, not a vote like an election. So there fore it isn't legally binding. So what if David Cameron said he would carry out the will of the people, politicians lie. Just like Nigel ferage when he promised £350 million for the NHS, when we got out of the EU. The fact is, we are just pawns. And we will never be anything more. I'm just going to cruise along in blissful ignorance until something actually happens that I need to worry about. Peace ✌️ he dident promise 350 million for the nhs, no-one did, see the picture of the bus, its on here somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 You are appealing to powers that have no basis in UK constitutional law like non-binding referenda and executive action. She does have to run this by parliament. You are quite simply wrong. To coin a phrase I'm sure you love - you lost, get over it. Bremoaner... I can imagine you did a little dance and clapped your hands this morning at the result Let me ask you a question,before Gina Miller and whoever is controlling/financing her got involved ,do you think the law lords were getting ready to step in and correct this miscarriage of constitutional law ? Live in hope that the referendum result gets overturned if you like ,then bask in the ensuing chaos. Pandoras box is open Im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 So what if David Cameron said he would carry out the will of the people, politicians lie. Just like Nigel ferage when he promised £350 million for the NHS, when we got out of the EU. This is becoming an urban myth. Just to be clear . . . yet again. The slogan on the bus was part of the official Vote Leave campaign. It had nothing to do with Nigel Farage. Neither did it promise £350 million for the NHS. It said, iirc, we send the EU £350 million a week. Let's fund the NHS instead. That is not a promise of £350 million for the NHS. It's a suggestion we could use some, or possibly all of that money to fund the NHS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 he dident promise 350 million for the nhs, no-one did, see the picture of the bus, its on here somewhere. Yeah he did, it was one of his major selling points for leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yeah he did, it was one of his major selling points for leaving.wrong again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Your right, sorry. He didn't say it, it was just the rest of his pals. (Politicians still lie though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Gordon R, I usually respect your opinions, but this post verges on silly. Do you REALLY believe that Gina Miller is trying to bring down the government? I think it is very silly to call my post silly. I think your post is naïve. If Gina Miller thinks she can embark on this without repercussions, she is an idiot. As for her being brighter than me - I really don't think so. She seems a limited individual who has done quite well for herself. I wonder who is behind her campaign. Theresa May has staked her future on this issue. If she fails, I believe she will have to go to the country. I worry that anyone cannot see that these people are nothing to do with democracy - some even believe the referendum was an opinion poll (you couldn't make it up) - they are actively seeking to totally undermine a democratically elected Government. If they cannot see that these are linked, I seriously worry about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yeah he did, it was one of his major selling points for leaving. no he dident, you need to read up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 It's not a "disgraceful decision", it's the right decision. It's not about whether britain leaves the EU or not, it's about proper parliamentary procedure. Read the preceding posts. I'm fed up of having to listen to / read the grumblings of people who seem incapable of understanding this. I understand this post to a point, however I can't agree with, "I'm fed up of having to listen to / read the grumblings of people who seem incapable of understanding this", as much as the government shouldn't be allowed to run over any laws they want, can you not understand why people are angry, that the letter of the law has undermined the people and the spirit for which the law was intended, I believe the law should be changed so that a democratic referendum, overrides any conflicting laws. I also find it quite interesting that the left/centre left politics that has ruled this country/western world for years, has (by most) been peacfully respected by even the right wing of society yet now there is a swing towards the centre/right of centre (depending on individual opinion) the left of society, who are the supposedly moral high ground, tolerant, democratic, peacfull section of society are the ones (large number of them anyway) who want to ignore democracy and have well and truly thrown their toys from the pram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 no he dident, you need to read up. Yeah your right, I've just had a look. He didn't say it. He just didn't correct any of his pals when they were saying it ( until the vote was in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 some people are so gullible, they have actually swallowed the line that miller is here to help us, to reinforce democracy, to show us the way, The referendum and its result were a beautiful moment for Britain, I actually think Cameron has come out of it well, he promised a vote, and he delivered, this shambles afterwards is just an attempt to overthrow the result. The moment has long gone in my view. p.s may is off to America tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Brexit Secretary David Davis Statement on Supreme Court Ruling Well worth a watch if you have the time. Explains a lot and makes it pretty clear that we will be leaving. A very good showing by David Davis. However, if you happen to be a Lib Dem supporter then probably best to give it a miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) Yeah your right, I've just had a look. He didn't say it. He just didn't correct any of his pals when they were saying it ( until the vote was in). He wasn't part of the official campaign, and why on earth should he correct something that is not wrong? What you choose to think the slogan said isn't what it really said. What you believe the campaigners to have said isn't what they really said. Do us a favour and look back at the comments you think that you have heard. Then you will see that you are wrong. Edited January 24, 2017 by UKPoacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 I understand this post to a point, however I can't agree with, "I'm fed up of having to listen to / read the grumblings of people who seem incapable of understanding this", as much as the government shouldn't be allowed to run over any laws they want, can you not understand why people are angry, that the letter of the law has undermined the people and the spirit for which the law was intended, I believe the law should be changed so that a democratic referendum, overrides any conflicting laws. I also find it quite interesting that the left/centre left politics that has ruled this country/western world for years, has (by most) been peacfully respected by even the right wing of society yet now there is a swing towards the centre/right of centre (depending on individual opinion) the left of society, who are the supposedly moral high ground, tolerant, democratic, peacfull section of society are the ones (large number of them anyway) who want to ignore democracy and have well and truly thrown their toys from the pram. The referendum could have been legally binding had Parliament chosen to make it so. They didn't and so we have found ourselves in the current siruation. One good thing does seem to have come out of this case. The eleven judges unanimously stated that the devolved parliaments may not veto the Brexit decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandringstar Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 imagine emigrating to Africa, and carrying on the way she has, I wonder how far you would get. the big giveaway, is the stern face, and how its 'all about the process and not the result', nah, I don't buy it, something else is going on here. And why did she have to be a model? The referendum could have been legally binding had Parliament chosen to make it so. They didn't and so we have found ourselves in the current siruation. One good thing does seem to have come out of this case. The eleven judges unanimously stated that the devolved parliaments may not veto the Brexit decision. so that now opens the door to another little ***** to assert her 'rights' to a say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 He wasn't part of the official campaign, and why on earth should he correct something that is not wrong? What you choose to think the slogan said isn't what it really said. What you believe the campaigners to have said isn't what they really said. Do us a favour and look back at the comments you think that you have heard. Then you will see that you are wrong. It's fine to look back in hind sight and say nobody "exactly" said this or said that. The fact of the matter is that it was very strongly implied that the NHS would be saved on the back of a exit vote. And a lot of people believed that and it influenced their vote. That's why people felt they had been lied to when Nige went on breakfast TV on the morning of the result, and when asked about the funding for the NHS said "that was a mistake". Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 so that now opens the door to another little ***** to assert her 'rights' to a say. If you mean wee Jimmy Krankie? Well no, quite the opposite. The door has been well and truly slammed in her face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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