ElvisThePelvis Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) I'm not especially impressed by the pattern or indeed Killing performance (too many birds are brought down but still very alive) of my current semi auto and cartridges. It is obvious that one creates the other, the question is should in try a new choke or different cartridges as the first step. thanks Edited February 14, 2017 by ElvisThePelvis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) What is the gun, barrel length, Cartridge and choke you are currently disappointed with? And what are you using it for? Over decoys, flightlining or something else? Edited February 14, 2017 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewh100 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 what choke have you got in, and which cartridges are you useing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Too many variables to consider here in my opinion, but assuming you're a competent shot I'd go for tighter chokes. Edited February 14, 2017 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 What is the gun, barrel length, Cartridge and choke you are currently disappointed with? And what are you using it for? Over decoys, flightlining or something else? And at what estimated range range do you think it's failing? Wads? Back-bore? It's very easy to treat the symptoms and not the defect. You say that you're not happy with the pattern - does that mean you've patterned the combination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) should in try a new choke or different cartridges as the first step. thanks Neither. put the lead on the target and it will come down, " IF within range". go and get some practice in on clays and get instruction. Edited February 14, 2017 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 should in try a new choke or different cartridges as the first step. thanks Neither. put the lead on the target and it will come down, " IF within range". go and get some practice in on clays and get instruction. Sorry, but that's not helpful. The birds are coming down, just not dead. You're assuming without any other evidence that the OP can't shoot. Don't assume, check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 elvis, what are you currently using at the moment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) Hi, yes i can shoot well thanks. I have patterned the gun at 40 yards and tighter choke is worse than 1/2, the plate looks like its been hit by 150mm rocket with scattered outliers. I am trying to figure out whether to try a new, aftermarket choke in half or 3/4 or whether to try different cartridges as a first step Im using the gun for roost shooting and flight lining predominantly but even at close ranges (30 yards or so, which to be honest is a little too close, the birds are coming down but still lively) If i use either of my other guns with same choke constriction (but different make) and my game cartridges (30g no6 Dark Storm) the birds are invariably dead prior to landing, but i like using more than one gun Thanks should in try a new choke or different cartridges as the first step. thanks Neither. put the lead on the target and it will come down, " IF within range". go and get some practice in on clays and get instruction. Sounds you need a bit more experience mate if you think all chokes and cartridges will kill anything... Edited February 14, 2017 by ElvisThePelvis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 And at what estimated range range do you think it's failing? Wads? Back-bore? It's very easy to treat the symptoms and not the defect. You say that you're not happy with the pattern - does that mean you've patterned the combination? Thanks, yes i have patterned the gun and cartridges in question through all three manufacturers chokes. Ranges vary but sensible shotgun ranges, oddly the range isn't necessarily affecting the outcome, but the pattern is poor. Too many variables to consider here in my opinion, but assuming you're a competent shot I'd go for tighter chokes. Thanks, tried that but the pattern is worse, I'm trying to figure out whether a change of cartridges or a change to an aftermarket choke would be the most sensible first change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Hi, yes i can shoot well thanks. I have patterned the gun at 40 yards and tighter choke is worse than 1/2, the plate looks like its been hit by 150mm rocket with scattered outliers. I am trying to figure out whether to try a new, aftermarket choke in half or 3/4 or whether to try different cartridges as a first step Thanks Sounds you need a bit more experience mate if you think all chokes and cartridges will kill anything... Fibre or plastic? Back-bore? Anything like this:? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Cartridges first ..it's cheaper and as I have found with my 410, some cartridges pattern better with full and some will throw it all over the place but give a good even pattern with half. I have been shooting some Lylevale fibres in the 410 recently and experienced the very same as you, birds being hit but continuing on to fold a couple of hundred yards away, where a Fiocchi #8 would have folded it. Even my wife standing behind me was seeing the hits and marking the birds. Yep! Change the shell and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) If you have tighter chokes put the tightest one in and see how it goes. Shot size and weight can have a big impact, I watched a video of one of the Duck Dynasty fellas shooting a cart through three chokes big shot and weight full choke was half the hits in the pattern of 1/4 choke and 1/2 choke didn't do quite as well as the imp cylinder choke. Link to video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EtWifzg6ApQ Pattern your carts with your chokes, if you only have one home try a larger payload 32g over 30g. Edited February 14, 2017 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Elvis What is the gun? Someone may be able to lend you a choke to try before you buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Fibre or plastic? Back-bore? Anything like this:? I only use Fibre, don't think that it is back bored, my pattern has tighter 'clumps' therefore bigger holes but not too dis similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Elvis What is the gun? Someone may be able to lend you a choke to try before you buy. Thanks, Its Franchi Affinity. i have just been looking at a couple of my pattern sheet photos and the pattern is inconsistent density so I'm wondering about cartridge (32g clear pigeon)... If you have tighter chokes put the tightest one in and see how it goes. Shot size and weight can have a big impact, I watched a video of one of the Duck Dynasty fellas shooting a cart through three chokes big shot and weight full choke was half the hits in the pattern of 1/4 choke and 1/2 choke didn't do quite as well as the imp cylinder choke. Link to video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EtWifzg6ApQ Pattern your carts with your chokes, if you only have one home try a larger payload 32g over 30g. Thanks, i tried full choke and the pattern got much worse .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I only use Fibre, don't think that it is back bored, my pattern has tighter 'clumps' therefore bigger holes but not too dis similar "Clumps" like this? Although this is tighter: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 ETP, What shot size are you using as it sounds like your putting the shot in the right place but the shot isn't performing on impact ? I wont use smaller than a 6 in shot size. I know some are happy with 7`s and 7.5 over decoys but I wouldn't ! It may just be in my mind and a few others who share a similar opinion but GB clear pigeon are not the cartridge they used to be. They used to have a excellent reputation and I still have a slab left. But the new black clear pigeons seem a poor replacement. This could solely be in the mind but several folk I know are of the same opinion and they always got on very well with the 30 gram variant. ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex gardener Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 As has been said above, cartridges are cheaper than a choke so probably worth trying out a couple of different types. It's a shame you can't buy a box of mixed cartridges to patern with rather than buy a whole box, like paint samples only more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 ETP, What shot size are you using as it sounds like your putting the shot in the right place but the shot isn't performing on impact ? I wont use smaller than a 6 in shot size. I know some are happy with 7`s and 7.5 over decoys but I wouldn't ! It may just be in my mind and a few others who share a similar opinion but GB clear pigeon are not the cartridge they used to be. They used to have a excellent reputation and I still have a slab left. But the new black clear pigeons seem a poor replacement. This could solely be in the mind but several folk I know are of the same opinion and they always got on very well with the 30 gram variant. ATB Matt Hey Matt, I agree, 6 is minium for me. i had heard that about GB CP and am starting to wonder if that's what I am up against. Will try some dark storms and report back, but of a price jump though! As has been said above, cartridges are cheaper than a choke so probably worth trying out a couple of different types. It's a shame you can't buy a box of mixed cartridges to patern with rather than buy a whole box, like paint samples only more fun. I think that's a good idea, I suggested the concept of a mixed slab to one manufacturer but they said it wasn't in their interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 "Clumps" like this? Although this is tighter: Similar clumps but more gaps, through half choke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 The clear pigeons in black cases are clear pigeon, the only difference is the case colour... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Hey Matt, I agree, 6 is minium for me. i had heard that about GB CP and am starting to wonder if that's what I am up against. Will try some dark storms and report back, but of a price jump though! I think that's a good idea, I suggested the concept of a mixed slab to one manufacturer but they said it wasn't in their interest. GB Dark storm is a bit steep, how about LE Pigeon power 29gram 6`s ? GB Black gold and Hull HPE are top end game carts and a bit OTT for pigeon surely? GB are about to launch a new cartridge too after recognising the fall in popularity of the new type clear pigeon. They contacted me on instagram after I commented on a post of theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian North Wales Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I have the affinity and had the same problem, i changed the cartridge and choke. I now use 32g clear pigeon number 6 and half choke for decoying and its works a treat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 As well as pattern it is always worth testing penetration as well. Not difficult. Soak some newspaper thoroughly and compact it into a pad about a foot square and at least an inch thick. Pin this to your back board and take a shot and see if the pellets get through at 35yrds. If they don't then you don't have enough penetration in my view. My 410 will go through and inch of wet newsprint and then bury itself in the ply the depth of the pellet. That's ITX #6 non toxic. Adequate penetration. It's ok having the perfect pattern but if it isn't penetrating into the vitals then a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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