FAC upgrade??

[Walker570]

I am but a complete novice on air rifles. Purchased a TX200 nine months ago and have been very pleased with it.

Where I mainly use it I get opportunities out at 50yrds and am reticent to take a shot with the 177 as I want a clean kill. It kills magpies and jackdaws cleanly out to 45 yrds but wacked a big old carrion crow today at about 50yrds and it flew about 100yrds before collapsing. I am certain I would not have a problem getting clearance for an FAC upgrade, would it be possible on the TX200 and would it be sensible?

[TaxiDriver]

Do you already have an air tank ?

There's an argument that once you've had an air rifle upgraded/modified to FAC levels you cannot then have it downgraded at a later date.

You might be better getting your FAC then buying a s/h FAC rated .22 or .25 even as the prices are reasonable as the market is smaller.

[Zetter]

Personally Walker I wouldnt bother with FAC in .177 or unless it really floats your boat with FAC in springers. Some people like them but you cant go much above 900 fps with an airgun pellet without it destabilising, so in a .177 jogging along about at 780 fps already at sub 12 ft/lb there isn't much faster to go before you run into accuracy issues unless you lob heavier .177 pellets which kind of defeats the objective really.

 

To get the most out of FAC air you want to be running a .22 or maybe a .25 at 800-900fps to give you the flat trajectory you get in a .177 at sub 12 ft/lb with the wallop of the bigger pellet. Getting this out of springers (which in .22 equates to about 30 ft/lb of energy) is tough and can be tooth joltingly fun in the recoil department.

 

.22 FAC air running at about 30 ft/lb would give you that extra bit at say 50 yards and is more forgiving of slight accuracy errors as you are dumping a lot more energy into the target.

 

If you are going to go to the hassle of getting an airgun on ticket I would get one FAC rated straight off as if you put a sub 12 ft/lb one on its that way forever and the value if you some to sell it will go through the floor especially in .177 and a springer as they are not really popular at all.

[Mice!]

If you haven't already read the thread below take a look, .22 or .25 fac lots of good information

[Ultrastu]

Well i have quite a bit to say on this subject having converted 2 sub 12 guns into fac guns .

One a .177 scorpion the other a .22 ultra .

But i would not convert a springer .especially in .177 .

Heres why .

A springer /rammer is pretty much on the limit of its capability at 12 fpe sure you can get a bit more but as recoil goes up so accuracy goes down and range and caoability with it .have a look how far the americans shoot their springers which do around 18 fpe in .177 .

They get excited if they shoot an inch group at 20 yds .

Also the other reason is .usually a .177 springer will give a pellet (lets say jsb exact ) a much higher bc for the same velocity and muzzle energy as a pcp .especially a springer with a short barrel .tx 200 hc bsa lightening .typical bc for jemsb in a pcp .0.021 and in a lightening 0.03

This means that after your sub 12 pellet has traveled 50 yds .from a springer its carrying a lot more energy than the same pellet from a pcp .

What im trying to say is that a .177 springer is already very efficient at 12 fpe and really doesnt benifit from pushing any further .

 

This comes from one of the very few people who think fac .177 is great .it is in a pcp .

[Ultrastu]

Also i know a fac gun cant have a barrel shorter than 300 mm

A tx barrel is shorter than this but the permanent shroud makes it longer than 300 mm

Either way i wouldnt like to test the law on it .

Ps crows are really tough ******* .just try shooting em with a 2000 fpe shotgun at 40 yds and see how much they flap about .

[Ultrastu]

To my mind its cheaper to buy a sub 12 and convert it to fac on ticket .and fac guns actually do hold their value quiet well as there isnt a lot about .

[Walker570]

Many thanks guys, I appreciate your knowledge. I love the TX200 as it is and it looks like a might be carrying two rifles to my hide in the future. Over seven and a half decades and I'm still learning

[Walker570]

Also i know a fac gun cant have a barrel shorter than 300 mm

A tx barrel is shorter than this but the permanent shroud makes it longer than 300 mm

Either way i wouldnt like to test the law on it .

Ps crows are really tough ******* .just try shooting em with a 2000 fpe shotgun at 40 yds and see how much they flap about .

The 17HMR is normally my crow gun and they are normally ready filleted for the fox with one of those. My close quarter combat with the magpies on the slurry pits is all concrete and the only safe way to shoot is with an air rifle. I wouldn't even use the 17 in there, plus the TX with silencer is just that, the farmer did not hear my half dozen shots last night although he was working within 20yrds.

I will need to try a few FAC rifles to see how they perform and how quiet I can make them.

 

That is what makes this forum the only other I am on other than the Shooters Forum of which I am a Mod. You can always get friendly advice and information. Great crowd.

[washerboy]

The tx200 are available in fac format but they are only 16ftlbs so not worth getting imho, they shoot perfectly well at legal limit

[Walker570]

Thanks, yes, I think I will just have to be patient and wait for them to come a bit closer it just gets frustrating when you have a crow or Maggie sitting at the far end of the pit almost giving you the finger My TX200 is a superb bit of kit, again purchased after advice given on here.

[bruno22rf]

Is it really worth the hassle for a few extra yards? If you want to reach out further without spending a fortune just buy a used CZ .22lr, you can pick them up for pennies and, with practice, they will wipe the grin off any Crows face at 100yards - if you want to upset Crows even further and enjoy watching them explode in a cloud of feathers seemingly before you have finished pulling the trigger - get a .17 HMR

[Whitebridges]

Is it really worth the hassle for a few extra yards? If you want to reach out further without spending a fortune just buy a used CZ .22lr, you can pick them up for pennies and, with practice, they will wipe the grin off any Crows face at 100yards - if you want to upset Crows even further and enjoy watching them explode in a cloud of feathers seemingly before you have finished pulling the trigger - get a .17 HMR

 

Made me smile as with everything you post, right on the money. Having said that i've just put in for a .25 FAC air.

[Walker570]

Bruno, if you had read my previous explanation, you would have seen the fact that the area I am shooting in is ALL concrete walls, floors, the lot, with over 200 VERY expensive cows in close proximity. Knowing the likelihood of a rico from a 22RF which I have, I would not in any way consider such and unsafe shot. I would not even use my 17HMR. I am actually doing a service here for the farmer and purchased the TX200 on advice as the best rifle to buy. Just frustrating when a target settles just that little bit too far for me to be sure of a clean humane kill.

Whitebridges, you obviously haven't read through the whole post either.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Walker570

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, blackies can be very canny in keeping at distance, i would consider 40 yards max for a sub 12, what pellet are you shooting with? heavy/domed?, and you realy need to hide up well with hat and face mask and shoot quick and decisive, good deeks and crow call helps,

[Walker570]

After some 65yrs of shooting crows I am plenty aware of their abilities and those of magpies. When I took on the job of sorting the magpie problem at this dairy farm, the farmer gave me permission to build a purpose designed hide attached to the outside wall of the pit. It has a fully waterproof roof, built of 1/2 inch ply and 5 inch viewing slots around three sides and these are covered with the fine mist netting with small holes cut to allow the camoed barrel/silencer on the TX200 to just protrude enough to clear the woodwork. I have had maggies settle about three feet from the hide and not see me. It was obvious from the start that anything over an air rifle was not on, just too much expensive meat walking around. I began in early July last year and shot the 71st magpie today. They are now few and far between and just need to keep on top of them. My enquiry ref the FAC situation was to glean information on the advisability of up grading without going into dangerous territory. From comments made I have decided to stay with the TX200 and bide my time

[Davyo]

From my experience they are a pig to sell on.Had to practically give my BSA Super 10 away,a very small market for them & if your lucky enough to find a buyer they wont want to pay alot for it.Mine had my got used as it was either a sub 12lb situ or grab the rimfire.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Davyo

[Mice!]

Just an idea, can you bait them to where you do want them? Put out some bread maybe with the catapult or possibly put up another hide, they might have got wise to you?

[Walker570]

There is more than enough food, so baiting is not going to work. They are not only on the slurry pits, but also all along the feed lanes and most worrying in the storage areas where concentrates are stored. I did put up the pop up this afternoon for two hours to try and cover one pit which is almost empty and I cannot see into it from the permanent hide, they just drop straight in. Today I had one drop in there and that one died very quickly. The others where going straight in and out of the feed lane shed and not hanging about. They are getting thin on the ground now, but as said they need keeping on top of. The TX200 with silencer is really quiet and often I have shot two, even with a reload, so I don't believe they know WHY their mates are dying suddenly it is just because having to cover two fairly large pits, sometimes they are just that bit too far. The one which landed three feet away I couldn't shoot at because I had no back stop, other than a couple of big black and white cows . Good sport though

[Guest]

The best bait for a magpie is a broken egg or a recently shot vermin. I shot a mp the other day and a whole gang of other magpies turned up to check it out. Shoot, reload, shoot, reload.....unbelievable.

[manthing]

I have the same fun shooting around the cattle, stand watching a known good rat hole and when ratty appears you have to make sure you have a gap in the heard to safely shoot through.

I've been reading thus with interest as I was contemplating FAC air, lots to digest.

[Ultrastu]

If your quarry is crows pige etc at range and elevated .and you want the best power /pellet to take them with heart /lung shots with out too much over penetration that leads to unsafe pellet fallout behind the bird ?.

Then ive found that using a light weight .22 pellet at high fps is a good combo .

The idea being that the .22 has a large ish frontal area but the light weight means tje pellet shed most of its energy inside the bird creating a big shock wave inside (as opposed the a slow heavy pellet whuch will just penetrate through dumping less energy even if if strikes with mire than the light one .

I use my .22 ultra for exactly this .

13.4 grn falcons at 870 fps = 23 fpe of energy .

Hit a crow at 50 yds and you deposit around 15 fpe into the bird with little coming out the other side if it does .

[washerboy]

Ferret in a wire run, so the crows etc can see it from above .

[Walker570]

The ferret sounds a good idea ... unfortunately don't have one.

 

In a couple of weeks time after this hot spell the big white alien looking rat tailed grubs(hover fly larvae) will be coming to the top and as of last years experience the magpies go berserk after them. Last about a week but puts the magpies on the back foot for sure as they throw caution to the wind.