Doc Holliday Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) I started using a new supplier just over a year ago. Cutting a long story short, I had a client ask me to replace an integrated clock on one of their boilers (it was out of warranty) and ordered one from this supplier. 2 weeks after fitting it the client called me again to say it still wasn't right (kept stopping/losing time as it was a mechanical type). I went back to supplier and they swapped it, no quibble. I asked them whether I send my invoice to the branch or head office. He asked me what for so I said my time to go back and replace a faulty item as supplied by them only 2 weeks previous. He tells me to send it the branch and they'll pass it on to the manufacturer "and they'll probably sort you out a few freebies in lieu of it". I asked if he was being serious and whether he would be willing to work for 'freebies'. His come back was that it wasn't their fault. I pointed out that they were my point of contact and that the manufacturer was theirs and that they are the ones who should go to them and if they feel that 'freebies' would be an acceptable form of payment for an invoice then that's their call. Freebies don't pay my bills and overheads, and I told him as much. I really don't understand supplier's take on their liabilities and it's not the first time I've encountered this. Ultimately, the buck stops with the manufacturer and that the proper chain of liability is my client to me, me to my supplier, my supplier to theirs, etc., and so on. Or is there some legal loop hole where they can make themselves devoid of this kind of liability? Edited June 2, 2017 by Doc Holliday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footu Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 This is an interesting point. i dont know the correct legal answer but i suspect that the suppliers responsibility ends with the product. they gave you a faulty product, they replaced it- end of obligation. If you wanted to bill anyone it would be the client for a new hour or two as extra time on the job they contracted you to complete. The faulty product wasn't your fault, the job wasn't finished till a correct product was fitted. How much grief you'll get over that depends on how your contract was worded. Was it a quote for the job in total, in which case tough luck client owes nothing, or an hourly rate on the job in which case they owe for time collecting new product and fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 usually warranty replacement excludes consequential costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 This is an interesting point. i dont know the correct legal answer but i suspect that the suppliers responsibility ends with the product. they gave you a faulty product, they replaced it- end of obligation. If you wanted to bill anyone it would be the client for a new hour or two as extra time on the job they contracted you to complete. The faulty product wasn't your fault, the job wasn't finished till a correct product was fitted. How much grief you'll get over that depends on how your contract was worded. Was it a quote for the job in total, in which case tough luck client owes nothing, or an hourly rate on the job in which case they owe for time collecting new product and fitting. If I paid a plumber or gas fitter (unsure which the OP is sorry) and they fitted faulty parts, and they then wanted paying again to come back and sort out the job they didn't fix, I would be very unhappy. I imagine lots of people in that position would also be very unhappy and wouldn't be paying. Be interested to see the outcome of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Take it on the chin mate, you must have been in the game long enough to accept recalls come out of your pocket that's the way it is. It isn't the suppliers fault that the item was faulty any more than it is yours. Your client expected you to replace it which you did, you expected the supplier to replace it which they did, your supplier expected there wholesaler to replace it which they did. Unfortunately you as the tradesman did the hard graft but it goes with the territory mate. Ps I have been in the service engineer industry for over thirty years so I feel your pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted June 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 I have also been in the service industry some 31 years now and feel that this is a point which gets over looked on a regular basis. I would never dream of charging a client twice for fitting a part that turned out to be faulty (as opposed to fitting faulty parts). My point is that I feel it should ultimately be the responsibility of the manufacturer to suffer the cost and not us qualified guys on the front line. If they want us to fit their products then that is the cost they need to bare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Totally agree but it ain't going to happen mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 We supplied a door 2 years ago from our suppliers and it's deveneered. It has a 5 year warranty on it so we told the suppliers and received a new one . We also received a bill For the difference in cost. The doors gone up £75 so we've had to pay that. It's just plain wrong as we've lost out now. The product was faulty . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 I have also been in the service industry some 31 years now and feel that this is a point which gets over looked on a regular basis. I would never dream of charging a client twice for fitting a part that turned out to be faulty (as opposed to fitting faulty parts). My point is that I feel it should ultimately be the responsibility of the manufacturer to suffer the cost and not us qualified guys on the front line. If they want us to fit their products then that is the cost they need to bare. I'm thinking you should be costing potential snagging call back expenses into your quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 We supplied a door 2 years ago from our suppliers and it's deveneered. It has a 5 year warranty on it so we told the suppliers and received a new one . We also received a bill For the difference in cost. The doors gone up £75 so we've had to pay that. It's just plain wrong as we've lost out now. The product was faulty . Now that is surely wrong. I hope you challenged it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) Now that is surely wrong. I hope you challenged it? Yep but as it's not our customers fault we don't want to let our customer down. We complained to the top man/woman. We buy 40 doors a month off them currently too. We've opened up another account else where . The problem is theirs only a couple of suppliers in the uk. We buy the same places the likes of howdens buy. Plain wrong as you say but what can we do Edited June 3, 2017 by team tractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Yep but as it's not our customers fault we don't want to let our customer down. We complained to the top man/woman. We buy 40 doors a month off them currently too. We've opened up another account else where . The problem is theirs only a couple of suppliers in the uk. We buy the same places the likes of howdens buy. Plain wrong as you say but what can we do Tell them they're taking the **** and small claims court? Depends if they'd stop supplying you then? I'd say to the top boss they're trying it on with that and say you weren't paying it but depends if it'll cost you more than £70 in the long run! I'm surprised if you buy that many that they didn't just sort it. If that was my company I'd be ashamed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Return visit is covered by profit on goods supplied, avoid this by using customers own parts but forego the profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Is it common enough an occurence that you should be pricing it into the work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Get legal advice, you can't be liable for the labour cost is faulty parts surely. A mate of mine is having this happen to him more and more. He is sick to the back teeth of defects showing months later and getting called back by customers as it's at least two more visits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del T Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Have this all the time being a heating engineer. We can't charge the customer so just have to get a few freebies off the supplier to cover our costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Have this all the time being a heating engineer. We can't charge the customer so just have to get a few freebies off the supplier to cover our costs. What if the freebies turn out to be faulty as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 We supplied a door 2 years ago from our suppliers and it's deveneered. It has a 5 year warranty on it so we told the suppliers and received a new one . We also received a bill For the difference in cost. The doors gone up £75 so we've had to pay that. It's just plain wrong as we've lost out now. The product was faulty . I would have a good read of the warranty and see if it states you'll have to cover the difference in price. I'd bet it doesn't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Return visit is covered by profit on goods supplied, avoid this by using customers own parts but forego the profit. That's exactly what i do,being commercially aware,but you can't do that on every item,i use face to face suppliers most of the time and give them no chance of fobbing me off with freebies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted June 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 When I do a job I guarantee any parts I supply for a minimum of 12 months, no quibble. If I have to return to a job as a result of something I have done, or rather not done (as in checked it all over before sigining it off), then the client isn't charged. If the issue is with the part I have fitted then that is the liability of the manufacturer. My line of recourse is through my supplier (whether they happen to be the manufacturer or not). I don't do large installation work, per se, so factoring in snagging is irrelevant as such. I have another job I was called back to recently. A filtered drining water tap I fitted a few weeks back was dripping. It was supplied directly from the water softener company and, after contacting them about, they sent out another one. Again, it's not my fault that their product is faulty but I'll be damned if I'm not going to invoice them for time to go back and replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 With my old company we very clearly stated the warranty was quibble free but any refunds were only up to the value of the goods. However if something did go faulty we would often either go repair it ourselves on site or agree to pay the customer for his time at an agreed price as a gesture of good will. Most companies will be like this as if not you will be surprised the amount of customers that take the mick. I know of one company that went bust as even if stuff wasn't faulty companies were claiming against them as they knew they could get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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