Passendale tribute....and

[Zapp]

The scale and tragedy of the Great War is, I think, beyond true comprehension.

 

Both my sons, although at the younger end of the scale, are the same ages as many who fought and died in places like Passchendaele and that really brings it home to me. The thought of fine young men like them and their mates heading over the top into machine gun fire in tens of thousands is unspeakably sad.

[panoma1]

The scale and tragedy of the Great War is, I think, beyond true comprehension.

 

Both my sons, although at the younger end of the scale, are the same ages as many who fought and died in places like Passchendaele and that really brings it home to me. The thought of fine young men like them and their mates heading over the top into machine gun fire in tens of thousands is unspeakably sad.

The youngest to die was 14 years old!

 

 

Just watched BBC News showing prince Charles at Tyne cot, I don't know if it always looks so well kept but it's a credit that its been looked after so well.

I was there two years ago and all the cemeteries, including Tyne Cot were immaculately kept....

[mel b3]

my mothers late uncle spent every night of his post army life screaming in terror , according to my mom he was perfectly normal and seemingly unaffected when he was awake , but as soon as he went to sleep the terrors started , he would scream and cry until he woke up , my mother said that it was never really mentioned , and if it was , it was refered to as "just something he bought home from the great war" , im guessing that the same nightly ritual was being played out in many thousands of homes around the country.

sadly , my mom never knew her own dad , he was killed a couple of days after landing in france in ww2.

[timmytree]

it's even more sobering when you think that those who cracked under the stress in WW1 and WW2 were usually labelled cowards, in WW1 they could be and were shot for cowardice. Many of those that returned injured were paid derisory amounts as pensions or conned into accepting small one off payments. For the ordinary soldier and junior officers I have the utmost respect, for the high rankers and political leaders I can find little but contempt, the majority of those in control had little or no understanding of warfare, no idea of the real conditions and were safely well behind the lines or even the English Channel.

[AULD YIN]

Just watching this mornings ceremony at tyne cot,seems strange that they did not say/mention that the two graves that the belgium queen an kate laid wreaths at were german graves ,not knocking them laying wreaths but seems strange they omitted that info #

edit to add info ,4 germans are interred there.

Edited July 31, 2017 by AULD YIN

[d foxxer]

How can any person alive understand the horror that was 1914 -1918? Read the life story of Harry Patch. His memory of the Cornishman ripped from shoulder to hip by shrapnel who uttered a single word. "Mother"

My great Aunt lost her only love in the same awful scenario and stayed single until she died 70 odd years later. To me these memorials somehow cheapen the feelings of the people who truly suffered because those who present and pontificate have no idea what they're talking about, not a bloody clue. Middleton is just another clueless celeb drafted in for public interest.

Far better to show the gravestones of those lads, silently and make people realise the magnitude of the war and its effect. Almost a whole generation died, the best of a generation. The same happened in the 2nd world war, the fittest and most intelligent were lost again, the unfit and useless were left at home, apart from protected occupations. Maybe that's why we now have a population thats largely unfit, incapable and in some cases useless.

We sacrificed the best many years ago and now we're suffering the effects of that policy.

well said

[Kalahari]

"for the high rankers and political leaders I can find little but contempt"

 

The problem with this is in percentage terms more Generals died than ordinary soldiers. Actually because of the communications problems of the times senior officers were very close to the front lines and were frequently subject to heavy shelling.

 

David.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Kalahari

[Grandalf]

For the ordinary soldier and junior officers I have the utmost respect, for the high rankers and political leaders I can find little but contempt, the majority of those in control had little or no understanding of warfare, no idea of the real conditions and were safely well behind the lines or even the English Channel.

 

One must be very careful of bold statements like this. It's not that simple.

Communications were almost impossible. Telephone cables were repeatedly cut. Radio was in its infancy. Runners were killed. Messages arrived at the rear headquarters hours out of date.

Armies were vast. Millions rather than tens of thousands.

No one, on either side of the trenches, had fought a war where artillery and machine gun ruled everything. Very easy to be wise with hindsight. At the time the 'big breakthrough' was always only just out of reach.

One more push and we will be there...

Wars of attrition had been fought before - But never on this scale.

Not that long ago either. I know I am old but both my father and my father in law were there. Both survived.

[timmytree]

 

One must be very careful of bold statements like this. It's not that simple.

Communications were almost impossible. Telephone cables were repeatedly cut. Radio was in its infancy. Runners were killed. Messages arrived at the rear headquarters hours out of date.

Armies were vast. Millions rather than tens of thousands.

No one, on either side of the trenches, had fought a war where artillery and machine gun ruled everything. Very easy to be wise with hindsight. At the time the 'big breakthrough' was always only just out of reach.

One more push and we will be there...

Wars of attrition had been fought before - But never on this scale.

Not that long ago either. I know I am old but both my father and my father in law were there. Both survived.

In hindsight maybe my post sounds harsh but I cannot forgive the fact that men were sent over the top time and time again into murderous fire. Lessons weren't learnt.

Communications may have been nigh on impossible but anyone can understand the first wave being wiped out and at that point would realise the futility of the situation. In any war since the tactics would have changed quickly but in WW1 the elite just kept pushing the ordinary men out into an impossible situation.

It's too late now to do anything other than speculate about the whys and wherefores of why so many young men on all sides died for seemingly so little benefit to anyone. Too many.

[panoma1]

In hindsight maybe my post sounds harsh but I cannot forgive the fact that men were sent over the top time and time again into murderous fire. Lessons weren't learnt.

Communications may have been nigh on impossible but anyone can understand the first wave being wiped out and at that point would realise the futility of the situation. In any war since the tactics would have changed quickly but in WW1 the elite just kept pushing the ordinary men out into an impossible situation.

It's too late now to do anything other than speculate about the whys and wherefores of why so many young men on all sides died for seemingly so little benefit to anyone. Too many.

A disgusting waste.......Human lives used as little more than Cannon fodder! Futile!.........Urinating into the wind comes to mind!

 

The tommies did as they were ordered, or they were shot!.......the ones to blame were those at the top, giving those orders! The tommies paid with their lives....what price did those at the top pay?....Nought!....... Ever was it thus!

[wymberley]

it's even more sobering when you think that those who cracked under the stress in WW1 and WW2 were usually labelled cowards, in WW1 they could be and were shot for cowardice. Many of those that returned injured were paid derisory amounts as pensions or conned into accepting small one off payments. For the ordinary soldier and junior officers I have the utmost respect, for the high rankers and political leaders I can find little but contempt, the majority of those in control had little or no understanding of warfare, no idea of the real conditions and were safely well behind the lines or even the English Channel.

You could be justified in arguing that where this is should be an obligatory school trip no matter where that school is;

 

https://image.ibb.co/bQdrEk/Shot_At_Dawn_2.jpg

Edited August 2, 2017 by wymberley

[catchthepigeonmutley]

Just watched BBC News showing prince Charles at Tyne cot, I don't know if it always looks so well kept but it's a credit that its been looked after so well.

 

Yes -Tyne Cot is meticulously maintained. We were there winter before last. Bitterly cold even though wife was in a long fur coat and me in an overcoat, and the loos were shut. Still our discomfort was as nothing compared with what was endured in the trenches. Such a peaceful place now - hard to think that a century ago it witnessed one of the darkest chapters in human history.

 

Heartening also to see a group of young children on a school trip - the Belgians at least are ensuring that it is never forgotten. School trip children also at the In Flanders Fields Museum in Ypres itself. Highly recommended, telling the story of the battles in sometimes graphic words and pictures. We must never forget.

[vampire]

it's even more sobering when you think that those who cracked under the stress in WW1 and WW2 were usually labelled cowards, in WW1 they could be and were shot for cowardice. Many of those that returned injured were paid derisory amounts as pensions or conned into accepting small one off payments. For the ordinary soldier and junior officers I have the utmost respect, for the high rankers and political leaders I can find little but contempt, the majority of those in control had little or no understanding of warfare, no idea of the real conditions and were safely well behind the lines or even the English Channel.

Well said.

I think we all have a relative that was needlessly lost in the mindless slaughter of a generation of expendable pawns,such a waste.

[four-wheel-drive]

Well said.

I think we all have a relative that was needlessly lost in the mindless slaughter of a generation of expendable pawns,such a waste.

 

I have been watching the program about the great war on BBC at lunch time and all that goes through my head is what is up with this world its madness fighting wars for what nobody ever wins except for the arms companies.

 

people say that we must never forget and I agree but we never learn we are all at it all over the world bombing and killing people all in the name of stopping bad people there is no end to it.

[m3vert]

I never seen the program as I am currently out of the country.

 

Regarding our school kids, I agree it should still be taught to them. I am currently in the process with 2 friends of writing a book about our local lads who were lost in WW1, as part of that I have the pleasure of visiting our local schools. I have just started this process and it initially it upset me that they were only taught WW2, but so far the schools have been very supportive to include WW1 into their program, which is helpful in our research. Initially the kids were more interested in my new iphone 7 Red when I arrived in the classroom! However once I engaged with them and started relating photos of local men and areas/battles in France, Turkey etc they soon got engrossed. Their enthusiasm was infectious and the project they put together as a result was fantastic, we will hopefully be including some of their work in our book. It seems the powers that be set the curriculum for all schools but the teachers can bend it slightly to include other things if they see a benefit. Only issue I had was one very young teacher sitting at the back of her class when I was talking to the kids, I could clearly see she was not interested and was using her phone to check Facebook!! However managed to give her a right red neck in front of her class by asking her a question when she clearly didn't have a clue what I had been talking about, she put her phone away then :--

 

These lads fought in terrible conditions that none of us can really imagine, they done it for us. The least we can do is remember them!

[ordnance]

In hindsight maybe my post sounds harsh but I cannot forgive the fact that men were sent over the top time and time again into murderous fire. Lessons weren't learnt.

 

 

Lessons were learned and tactics changed, as you say its easy to criticise in hindsight it was a new type of industrial war all sides were learning how to fight is as they went along.

Edited August 3, 2017 by ordnance