Game Shots_V_ Fowlers and BASC

[pavman]

so this one kind of sits between a couple of threads so I have gone for general matters that way it will doubtless stir up a few more than if in either game/fowlers

 

Last night I had what started as a bit of a lecture from a Game shoot owner regarding me allowing my flight pond to be shot from sept. I have rented it to a syndicate this year as I don't have time to organise things myself and get fed up with people saying they are coming then not turning up putting me out of pocket and a waste of my time.

 

The debate revolved around his dislike of birds being shot early season despite it being legal. At one point he mentioned he was inclined to protest with the local anti.

 

He said he had contacted BASC about getting the fowling season put back a month as there are often young birds about and that the response had been no "Real" Fowler would shoot in sept. Personally I cant see BASC taking this stance.

 

I reminded him I control Foxes for him and asked if I should wait until they reached a particular age

 

I also said the syndicate had an agreement with me not to deliberately shoot at young birds if at all possible subject to identification and a host of other restriction one of which was not to shoot at snipe or Game despite them being on my land.

 

I also reminded him that he has a pond he puts ducks onto and then on shoot day (Nov onwards) the game shots surround the pond and they all shoot with lead carts. We often see blerb about this and how game dealer checks turn up ducks with lead shot in them but I would wager they are all from game shoots that have a pond.

 

I accept this is a tad controversial and I am not pitting one discipline with another. Personally I don't go fowling until Oct and that's due to a mix of things but whilst its legal folk can and will make there own choices which they are perfectly entitled to do.

 

 

 

 

[Guest cookoff013]

some guys are plonkers.

 

i used to shoot at several places interlinked. so i technically could wander natural barriers onto someone elses field whom i do have permission.

landowner one says dont shoot foxes. shoot rabbits only.

landowner two says shoot foxes with extreme prejudice, shoot anything else.

landowner three says to shoot whatever.

and a random guy tried to give me permission on land he doesnt own or rent.

landowner one says "why are my chickens dissapearing?"

 

its absolutely bonkers, there are plonkers.

[Scully]

As far as I'm concerned; if it's legal then it's entirely up to the individual.

[motty]

It is such a shame that some folk continue to use lead on 'fowl in England. Steel is a cheap enough alternative that can be used in most guns, but some people just refuse to accept it.

[Guest cookoff013]

It is such a shame that some folk continue to use lead on 'fowl in England. Steel is a cheap enough alternative that can be used in most guns, but some people just refuse to accept it.

yeah. it bugs me too. steel is a cheap alternative its so cheap compared to other nontoxics that you could actually buy a cheap baikal, for £50, run it with steel only for a year and it still will be cheaper than the premium nontoxic shots.

 

some of the stuff i make is £50 a box (25 shells).

[scolopax]

I think wild duck shooting should not be sold for commercial purposes, cannot say how that could ever happen but the idea of making money out of (wild) duck sits uncomfortabley with me, especially fed flight ponds.

 

Some one can spend time and money producing or managing the right habitat for breeding wildfowl, and some one else can rent a puddle in a field half a mile away, chuck some barley in it, sell flights and shoot all that years duck production plus more. In the perfect world no more ducks (numbers wise) should be shot on a pond than were bred on it that same pond that summer

 

As for starting in September, well everything in moderation, the gun should be able to tell a flapper mallard or Tuftie, of which there can be many at the start of the season.

 

maybe this is more of a Wildfowler V duck shooter post lol

[scotslad]

To b fair that's a very good post/point above scolopax.

In an ideal world many of oursmall syndicate/diy shoots would be sustainable but unfortunately most aren't.

But even my local nature reserve isn't sustainable, usualy has 50plus resident mallard yet hasn't fledged a single duckling for 5 years (too much vermin) if it wasn't for the local big commercial shoot releasing duck and some breeding successfully elsewhere they're wouldn't be many there at all

 

But wot happens when it comes to shooting migratory wildfowl which most do, as u can't really do anything to make them sustainable.

 

Biggest problem of shooting duck at this time of year is plucking the *******

 

To be fair to the landowner if he is releasing duck mibee he's confusing the difference between wild and his reared duck, as wild duck will generally be older and fit good fliers even this early in the season.

As reared duck are never often great fliers anyway and esp if he's not planning on shooting till Nov will be lucky if they're even flying yet never mind flying well, so it would be not a great thing to do.

So if he is comparing the 2 I can t least see his point of view despite it being misplaced

 

 

As an aside scolopax where do u stand on the many shoots that sell woodcock or snipe days?

[scolopax]

As an aside scolopax where do u stand on the many shoots that sell woodcock or snipe days?

 

everything in moderation,

 

my main issue is with out and out commercial shooting of wild duck, sometime on sites that would be pretty ecologically barren if it was not for the tons of grain that are tipped in the water (in fact some are ecologically barren because of the amount of grain tipped into the water!).

 

the main difference is that snipe and woodcock are not fed to attract them into a killing zone that they would otherwise ignore

 

I do believe the Americans got it right with their ban on artificial feeding, there would be much more incentive if that was the case to provide real waterfowl habitat of value.

Edited September 5, 2017 by scolopax

[Pushandpull]

We are very fortunate in this country with long seasons, 24 hour shooting, and no bag limits.

The commercial exploitation of finite wild bird populations by means of "baiting" might be legal but it is hard to see it as moral. When the next WCA is enacted, possibly under a less friendly government, it will be difficult to defend the status quo if this as seen as typical behaviour by shooters.

Huge bags of reared pheasants might upset folk but can be excused as simple greed. This is much harder to defend.

 

The comments by Scolopax are on the ball. You might pay for the opportunity to shoot deer. However you would not expect them to drawn by feeding into a paddock where you could blaze away regardless. Well, perhaps some would.........

[scotslad]

But do many commercial operations rely on purely wild stock?

In my area any of the larger shoots generally release duck, which in itself has its own issues.

And to be fair most of those released duck fill all the flight ponds up and down the valley

 

 

 

 

The problem is deciding wot is 'moderation' as almost everyone will have a different idea, and to be blunt in many cases moderation might not pay the bills.

Is an estate which naturally has large numbers of woodcock and shoots on a commercial basis any worse than a syndicate shoot which holds few woodcock but there all shoot on sight?

 

Really it goes back to the same old thing, that all shooters are on dangerous ground if we start claiming moral high ground or setting bag limits rules on feeding etc.

In my opinion u just d wot suits u and ur own morals

[Fen tiger]

It is such a shame that some folk continue to use lead on 'fowl in England. Steel is a cheap enough alternative that can be used in most guns, but some people just refuse to accept it.

Very true .

[Scully]

 

Really it goes back to the same old thing, that all shooters are on dangerous ground if we start claiming moral high ground or setting bag limits rules on feeding etc.

In my opinion u just d wot suits u and ur own morals

This.

[greylag]

Anyone still using lead on ducks and geese should be ashamed of themselves.Steel is as good as lead at the right distance and those that continue to break the law will be the reason we will all suffer the loss of lead on game and clays.

[lancer425]

This.

This.

[figgy]

You only have to look at the many differing views between shooters. Never mind what non shooters think of our sports.

 

We have seasons and rules for a reason. If you don't want to start shooting till your happy do that but don't preach to others that choose otherwise.

[ShootingEgg]

You only have to look at the many differing views between shooters. Never mind what non shooters think of our sports.

 

We have seasons and rules for a reason. If you don't want to start shooting till your happy do that but don't preach to others that choose otherwise.

Exactly this. As of the 1st of sept you can, so if you want to then carry on. If you leave it a month thats fair enough. I don't shoot September but then where I shoot isnt busy until the weather changes for the colder and they come further in for cover and warmth.

[pavman]

I went for a walk with the dog (no gun) round one of the wildfowling shoots at the weekend and got bitten by mozzies ......

Edited September 19, 2017 by pavman

[Walker570]

This.

Spot on Scully, morals its is. I have just been offered a 200 bird day on the pheasants at a VERY good price, but I have a maximum day I wish to shoot on ..130. Two reasons, I have no desire to just kill things and secondly I can have TWO days enjoyment for the same price. There is more to a days shooting than just killing things. Unfortunately BUT fortunately few clay shooters who turn to shooting live birds and consequently think they have to blast everything that flies by 5yrds or 50yrds. They do not look along the line and appreciate one of the team shooting a great bird. Same with released ducks, I have no interest at all. When I ran a syndicate which had a number of superb ponds/pools for duck we did release a few...50 max. The ponds where in a main pheasant drive and guns placed accordingly had some superb shooting, but the whistle was blown as soon as ducks started to return or circle. The vast majority of duck shot therefore were wild.

Regarding the neighbour issue ....tough, that is when the season starts and should we mention this to government you can no doubt appreciate what a pigs ear they would make of it.

[Scully]

Indeed; there is more to a days shooting than killing things.

Our small driven syndicate is a prime example. it is pheasant shooting which brings us together each season; bags are modest indeed and even the disappointment of sometimes not even getting a shot towards seasons end doesn't stop any of us paying up again for next season.

We have a very good time with good company and loads of laughs, and the end of shoot season meal is a wonderful night out with guns and wives ( most of the latter are beaters anyhow, or otherwise involved ) together.