JohnfromUK Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I have a gun with a steel plate - no different at all in recoil to any other wood/plastic/ebonite. Personally I dislike pads as my shoulder is always fine if suitable cartridges are used for the gun's weight, and if you use one of these fancy telescopic recoil reduction systems, the comb gets you in the face instead - or so I am told. If you do suffer from recoil, in my view poor fit is often the cause, or simply too 'fierce' a cartridge for the gun. The old rule was never to shoot more than 1/96th of the guns weight - which is still good sense, but some modern one ounce loads have been made very fast. Not only can this give a nasty recoil, but can also be detrimental to the pattern. Heavy loads and high velocities need more weight in the gun, and most s/s guns are towards the lighter end of the range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesefiend Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I didn’t realise that with steel butt plates, I thought they’d be much harder on the shoulder. Gun fit being the worst culprit makes sense, my dad is 6’5” and inherited an ancient pair of Spanish SxS with at most a 13” stock. A 50 bird round of sporting with one of those gave me huge deep purple bruises and made it look like I’d been trampled by a horse. I’d not heard about the 1/96 rule before. I shoot 28g 65mm through mine, even though it has longer chambers. I’m lucky in that the stock is pretty long and fits well so not really being able to hit anything with it is really the only thing that bothers me. I’ll get it out of the cabinet after work and try to post some pics here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Cheesefiend said: I’d not heard about the 1/96 rule before. 1/96 allows 1 ounce (28 grammes) in a 6 pound gun. I would suggest that this is very much an 'upper limit' because modern fairly quick 1 ounce loads can be pretty lively in a 6 1/2 to 6 3/4 pound gun. 7 minutes ago, Cheesefiend said: I didn’t realise that with steel butt plates, I thought they’d be much harder on the shoulder. To all practical purposes steel, ebonite and wood are all so much harder than the 'flesh' of your shoulder, they will behave the same. You would need to have something of a similar softness/hardness to your shoulder to absorb energy as the energy will compress the softer material (a bit like too different springs placed 'end to end', the softer compresses first) 65 mm cartridges (2 1/2") are fine in 2 1/2 or 2 3/4" chambered guns. 70mm (2 3/4") cartridges (or longer) should NOT be used in 2 1/2" chambered guns - mostly English guns, but some earlier Spanish guns were also 2 1/2". The (fairly rare) 2" guns should only ever have 2" cartridges - and these are invariably very lightweight guns. 2" cartridges are not easy to find these days, though are still made. I have never had a problem using 67.5mm cartridges in my 2 1/2" guns and most gunsmiths will tell you it is fine as chambers are typically actually 2 5/8". I have occasionally seen people saying they have had problems with damage to the opened out case, but it has never happened to me and I suspect may occasionally occur if the gun has very abrupt chamber ends. I have also heard it said that 2 1/2" cartridges sometimes don't perform well in 3" (or longer chambers), but have no personal experience of this, never having owned a 3" gun. Recoil is also dependant on clothing, and how much shooting you are doing. I use an AyA weighting a bit under 6 3/4 lbs for most things and the occasional 32g load is OK, but I wouldn't want to shoot many! When doing a simulated game day this summer in very hot weather (light shirt only) - I used 21g - and these were fine despite shooting a few dozen on each 'drive'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: I have a gun with a steel plate - no different at all in recoil to any other wood/plastic/ebonite. Personally I dislike pads as my shoulder is always fine if suitable cartridges are used for the gun's weight, and if you use one of these fancy telescopic recoil reduction systems, the comb gets you in the face instead - or so I am told. If you do suffer from recoil, in my view poor fit is often the cause, or simply too 'fierce' a cartridge for the gun. The old rule was never to shoot more than 1/96th of the guns weight - which is still good sense, but some modern one ounce loads have been made very fast. Not only can this give a nasty recoil, but can also be detrimental to the pattern. Heavy loads and high velocities need more weight in the gun, and most s/s guns are towards the lighter end of the range. Fully agree with all that,I find many modern 1oz loads require a gun of circa 7lbs to be comfortable,which should not be the case ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted November 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I think that the balance of a gun is as important as the fit, a poorly balanced gun even one that fits you will kick noticeably more than a well balanced one. I have tried 2 1/2" shells in my No.2 3" and cannot see any difference from the one that is 2 3/4" chambered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotgcoalman Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Using "Hercule" for a round of 50 sporting certainly wakes you up on a Sunday morning 🤣 Also on the odd occasion you can be a bit fast getting to the second trigger🙄 The virtual double discharge is interesting to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesefiend Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Here’s my submission to side by side club, a No.4 the same age as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Great guns for everything No 4`s ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 On 02/11/2018 at 19:12, matone said: Great guns for everything No 4`s ! And a lot of gun for the money in the second hand market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 9 hours ago, AYA117 said: And a lot of gun for the money in the second hand market. They are indeed,and a perfectly good gun for game shooting in the UK ! Far more rewarding to use than a big lump of o/u . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesefiend Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 It’s is nice and light compared with my other guns. It’s currently choked half and full as I believe is fairly standard, but I’m not that confident with them being that tight. This will be mainly used for walked-up pheasant. I’m wary that once the chokes are physically changed there’s no going back. Do most people leave them as is, or get a gunsmith to open them up a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robertt Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 I'd leave them and see how you fair. Shot walked up for years with that combination of chokes and had no problem. Being mindful that alot of stuff is being shot up the **** I'd take advantage of the full barrel with a larger shot size. Perhaps 4's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cheesefiend said: It’s currently choked half and full If you are just going on the choke markings on the barrels, rather than patterning the gun or getting the chokes measured using a bore-micrometer; you have no idea if the previous owner has had them taken out prior to you buying the gun. People will argue all day long about the degree of choke required and you really need to consider what is the least degree of choke that suits your type of shooting. As some wise old shooting owl said years ago: "Choke, it lengthens your reach but lightens your bag". Half and full is in my view to much for `normal` Pheasant shooting but each to their own. Once you have centred a bird at 25 yrds with the choke barrel and subsequently dressed it, you may decide that adjustment of that barrel is on the cards. Edited November 5, 2018 by JJsDad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Cheesefiend said: It’s is nice and light compared with my other guns. It’s currently choked half and full as I believe is fairly standard, but I’m not that confident with them being that tight. This will be mainly used for walked-up pheasant. I’m wary that once the chokes are physically changed there’s no going back. Do most people leave them as is, or get a gunsmith to open them up a bit? The best way to alter a choke on a fixed choke gun is to change the cartridge. Naturally, there are limits and this does work better if you're looking at more open than the nominal boring would indicate. As ever, the pattern plate will help. If you are suffering from recoil, try some Gamebore Super game High Birds. These are really light on the shoulder but do what they're designed to do and from what you've already said, might pattern too tight for your needs, but a box is worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browning123 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, JJsDad said: If you are just going on the choke markings on the barrels, rather than patterning the gun or getting the chokes measured; you have no idea if the previous owner has had them taken out prior to you buying the gun. People will argue all day long about the degree of choke required and you really need to consider what is the least degree of choke that suits your type of shooting. As some wise old shooting owl said years ago: "Choke, it lengthens your reach but lightens your bag". Half and full is in my view to much for `normal` Pheasant shooting but each to their own. Once you have centred a bird at 25 yrds with the choke barrel and subsequently dressed it, you may decide that adjustment of that barrel is on the cards. A very good post with excellent advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Many years ago I had a Yeoman; like most cheaper AyA's - it came 1/2 and Full. I found this too tight (I didn't have the confidence that I could shoot well enough with tight patterns) and had it opened up (I think to IC and 1/4, though it many have been 1/4 and 1/2). I don't need tight chokes for what I do, so that worked well for me - and I felt more confident with it opened up. Nowadays, I don't have the Yeoman, but have a few guns, and I prefer either IC and 1/4 or 1/4 and 1/2. My only multi choke gun has never had the choke changed, though I know that it is fairly open as it is now because both 3/4 and full are in the box! I do have a set of Full and Full that came with one (second hand) barrels - and I have never shot them, preferring the 1/4 and 1/4 set. My 'go-to' gun is now an older AyA No 1 - and I don't even remember what it is choked other than it fairly open with the left tighter than the right - probably IC and 1/4, but might be 1/4 and 1/2. I don't worry about it. It does its job well at what I shoot at provided I play my part right - and that is usually the let down! I use fibre cartridges, 3/4 oz and 1 ounce and I'm not particularly fussy about brand/variety. Currently clays 'bag' is a mix of Fiocchi and Hull 3/4 oz loads and 'game' bag has Hull Imperial game 15/16 oz (26gramme) and some 1 oz and 1 1/16 oz Gamebores. I also carry a few 'lead free' in case of need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesefiend Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Cheers gents, I’ll try and pattern it. Recoil isn’t a problem with this one. It does seem very tight for my liking, particularly on the 2nd barrel, so may open it up a bit all round. I guess this is a quick and fairly cheap job to do with the right tools (and in the right hands)? I’ve got a day on the pheasants in a fortnight so don’t want to be without the SxS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted November 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 For anyone interested, there are some AYA Sidelocks on Guntrader at very good prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, AYA117 said: For anyone interested, there are some AYA Sidelocks on Guntrader at very good prices. Yep, but the one to go for is the best quality boxlock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, AYA117 said: For anyone interested, there are some AYA Sidelocks on Guntrader at very good prices. New or s/h ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted November 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 hours ago, wymberley said: Yep, but the one to go for is the best quality boxlock. Oh yes and of course that one too. 4 hours ago, button said: New or s/h ? Second hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 There is also I see a very nice BSA Directors at a very good price BLE and from a dealer too. Always fancied one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan123shooting Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Here are my entries an 1869 Westley Richards black powder proof bar in wood hammer in 12 bore and an Army &Navy BLE in 12 bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, alan123shooting said: Here are my entries an 1869 Westley Richards black powder proof bar in wood hammer in 12 bore and an Army &Navy BLE in 12 bore Those Westleys are beautiful things,owned a cased one yrs ago,wasn`t a shooter sadly but still nice to look at ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan123shooting Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, matone said: Those Westleys are beautiful things,owned a cased one yrs ago,wasn`t a shooter sadly but still nice to look at ! This one is cased and still knocks the pheasants down on high days and holidays with my black powder loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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