Second hand rifles

[wildfowler.250]

Interested to hear what people on here consider when buying a second hand rifle,(mainly thinking centerfire). I’ve bought a couple and generally been pretty lucky going by general exterior condition but it’s a bit of a gamble when shopping online.

How many rounds would you say is ‘too much’ and getting into new barrel territory? I appreciate the velocity of the loads comes into this. I’m currently keeping half an eye out for a .243 and a friend is looking for a 6.5 but I think the .243 may be more likely to be pushed faster for vermin ect.

 

Is it practical to have a rifle bore scoped? And will most gunsmiths do this? Costs?

 

Do most people insist on a test fire? I think in the future I’d be pretty insistent on this. Normal before parting with hard earned cash or a bit excessive?

 

Interested to hear people’s thoughts. Some of the old rifles are far nicer than the new plastic things but in a lot of ways you may be safer just with a T3!

[The Burpster]

Hmmmmm not as simple as ‘round count’ as some makers barrels are much better at handling work than others. You can get a good idea how much it has been used by cycling the bolt. If it’s floppy and really easy then it has probably done a lot. If it’s crisp it’s more likely to have had an easier life. 

Sadly shooting it may not give you an accurate impression of its wear either as some brand new barrels cannot handle factory ammo well,  and this may lead you to believe it’s a worn or inaccurate barrel when in fact the factory ammo is too hot for that barrel. 

In my experience when buying a rifle regard the barrel as tyres on a car, would you not buy a car if the tyres were the only thing preventing you getting something you really want or can afford? 

Barrels wear out, that is inevitable. That doesn’t mean the rest of the rifle is scrap, and it also doesn’t mean that the barrel cannot be replaced often relatively inexpensively. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by The Burpster

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks for the reply. I’m keen for another sako 75 so just shopping around. Interesting points all round there.

 

All opinions/views greatly appreciated

[The Burpster]

75s are really good rifles and looked after can handle a truly remarkably shot count.

Beware the hunter taper barrels and hot factory ammo though. My 75 hunter .270 was rubbish with factory ammo, 1.5 MOA was a really good day. Once reloading for it though it would cloverleaf at 100 and sub 1MOA at 200+250.

also the action and stocks of the 75 will last a lifetime, barrels are easily obtained and replaced. IMHO one of the sweetest hunting rifles made and a mile better than some of the newer models. 

[Scully]

I’m not really sure how you can prove how many rounds a barrel has had through it as there are many variables at play, including the owners honesty. It’s pretty rare for an RFD not to have a bore scope, and using one to look down a barrel shouldn’t cost you anything. 

I’m not aware of anyone I know whom has insisted on test firing a rifle any more than I am of the same with a shotgun, but have been offered the chance to try shotguns at two different dealers. I know of two dealers who do offer the chance to try rifles before buying, so the facility is obviously available. Secondhand rifles are commonplace, finding the one you like at a dealers with a range on which to try it, much less so. 

I’d agree that some of the older rifles with wooden stocks have much more appeal, but it’s horses for courses; you won’t find a much more practical rifle than a synthetic stock. Both my CZand T3 have synthetic stocks and can, have and do absorb everything heavy use can throw at them. 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Scully

[The Burpster]

Scully makes good points about Synth stocks and 75s were available with Synth stocks as I had them for both of mine (kept the wood ones and put them on at selling time- selling the synth stocks separately) . 

[wildfowler.250]

Cheers guys. Apologies as I was thinking more for buying privately so assumed they’d maybe have some ground to test fire on. I’ve noticed one or two gun shops that do have a range actually which is a great facility.

 

Suppose a bore scope is the only practical way to go then in addition to general condition?

[The Heron]

I always buy new at least you know where you are starting from.

[Gerry78]

I Bought a 2nd hand CZ 222 Last year for a great price the rifle immaculate the rifling in the barrel perfect was being told crazy prices for a new one so the extra money i saved will be going on a new scope as i only shoot couple foxes a year it suited me have a good shop about you can pick up a good second hand rifle for good money

[bumpy22]

5 hours ago, The Heron said:

I always buy new at least you know where you are starting from.

as above. even a t3 is relatively cheap new you may save yourself 2-300 on a new one but i would rather have piece of mind especially on a 243 throwing out some fast hot rounds

[wildfowler.250]

Cheers guys! certainly mixed opinions which keeps it interesting,(wouldn't be any point in asking otherwise). It's a toughy going for a used / gamble second hand sako at arguably better quality or a new T3 which are fine if a bit built to price,(accurate though!).

[scobydog]

Bought all mine 2nd hand, looked down the barrel to check the rifling and a good look at the mechanism if it looks good I buy it. Got a 270 Parker Hale a while ago used by a hobby stalker for 25 years, he used it twice a year on deer and a couple of times a year to check zero that was all he did with it, they have a sloppy action as normal but once a round is chambered it was tight as anything else. I put @ 250 rounds through it during the past 8 years, he did roughly the same in 25 years so even being generous lets say 600 rounds from new, over 33 years, now sold it to a mate and still as accurate as the day it was made. Now got a Remmy 700 223 and a cz 22lr and both shoot raggy holes at 100 yds at the range, both 2nd hand rifles and way cheaper than new.

scobydog

[Bumble]

I’ve got a second hand PH Safari in .243 that I paid £120 for, and I’m currently getting 3/4” groups out of it with 80gr soft points & 1/2” with 58gr ballistic tips. Can’t complain about that. 

[Dekers]

17 hours ago, Bumble said:

I’ve got a second hand PH Safari in .243 that I paid £120 for, and I’m currently getting 3/4” groups out of it with 80gr soft points & 1/2” with 58gr ballistic tips. Can’t complain about that. 

A pal had an old PH in .243, you didn't need a bore scope to see the pitting in the barrel, I guess the crown was fair because the groups and repeatability he got was unbelievable!

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Dekers said:

A pal had an old PH in .243, you didn't need a bore scope to see the pitting in the barrel, I guess the crown was fair because the groups and repeatability he got was unbelievable!

Tales such as these make me smile everytime, and I know I've said this before, but a mates .243 Sako 75 which he's had for donkies years and has never been cleaned, is stored with the mod' on ( which vents dramatically at night through the tiny rust holes! ) and has accounted for more foxes than I've ever seen, and still groups as tight as a drum. 🙂

[robbiep]

I bought my 223 (Steyr Mannlicher SL with double set triggers) because I just liked it. It held nicely, came up easily, sat in the shoulder well, it just felt right. It was built in 1989, still has the original 'made in West Germany' S+B scope on, and I've no idea how many rounds it had fired before me. I can say that I've put another 2000+ through it. It gets cleaned 3-4 times a year.

The only weak point on the rifle is yours truly on the trigger. Put a really good person on it, and it'll drill virtually the same hole, round after round.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, robbiep said:

I bought my 223 (Steyr Mannlicher SL with double set triggers) because I just liked it. It held nicely, came up easily, sat in the shoulder well, it just felt right. It was built in 1989, still has the original 'made in West Germany' S+B scope on, and I've no idea how many rounds it had fired before me. I can say that I've put another 2000+ through it. It gets cleaned 3-4 times a year.

The only weak point on the rifle is yours truly on the trigger. Put a really good person on it, and it'll drill virtually the same hole, round after round.

Now that sounds nice nothing like a classic quality made piece of engineering. 

[Bumble]

14 hours ago, Dekers said:

A pal had an old PH in .243, you didn't need a bore scope to see the pitting in the barrel, I guess the crown was fair because the groups and repeatability he got was unbelievable!

 

I didn’t get it borescoped before purchase but the seller (small scale RFD) did shoot a couple of groups with different ammo & sent me scans of the targets prior to me agreeing to the sale. I had it borescoped when I took it to get screwcut and the gunsmith said it still looked in excellent condition. It does still get cleaned occasionally too! 

[Vince Green]

17 hours ago, Dekers said:

A pal had an old PH in .243, you didn't need a bore scope to see the pitting in the barrel, I guess the crown was fair because the groups and repeatability he got was unbelievable!

Having been round rifles all my life and helped out in a gun shop for many years off and on, the only rifles I have ever really seen with shot out barrels were target rifles or wildcats. However, I have seen hundreds of otherwise perfectly good rifles that have been 'ruined' by lack of proper cleaning. Pitted barrels often don't affect the shooting though.