Doc Holliday Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 Evening Gents, I have an issue with a national company who supply electricity to my business premises. It's nothing grand, just a small commercial premises. I took tunbridge with them when, on moving in some while back, they phoned me to say they were now supplying me with electricity. Naturally I asked them to show me a copy of the signed agreement whereby I gave them permission to act as my supplier. They said it was forwarded to them by my landlord. I told them that that was an issue between my landlord and them and thanked them for their interest but no thanks. This has been going on for a while and, to cut a long story short, I arrived at my office today to find the lock had been changed with a combination key safe affixws and sticker attached to the door window telling me to call them. My first reaction was to try and pick the key safe which, after watching a couple of videos on YouTube and a couple of hours persisted, decided to give up and seek the knowledge of the great PE Collective. Can anyone advise me as to where I stand legally with this bunch of charlatans where no agreement from my side giving them authority to act as my supplier. My initial reaction is to let/take it to court but not so sure this will e in my favour. Thanks, as always Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spr1985 Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 Are you saying that an electricity supplier has changed the lock on your building? If so my first port of call would be the landlord...assuming your rent is up to date and no eviction notice has been served surely they have no authority to enter your premises. as far as I am aware the only people that can force entry to a comercial premises is a high court bailiff, they would in most instances visit the premises and if no one is there phone before enforcing a writ / forcing entry. so, to change a lock whoever is responsible must have either a) forced entry or b) been let in. No matter which way you look at it their has been foul play. Where the contract to supply is concerned, does your rental include rates or do you pay them separately? Have you at any point instructed a different company to supply your electricity? I ask this because ( and I may be wrong on this one ) but I believe by using the electricity supplied to the building you automatically become bound by the contract with the company supplying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 You can change your supplier at any time if you haven't signed a supplier contract, but you will have to pay for any electricity you've used with the current supplier. If you call a supplier of your choice, they can switch you over almost immediately, providing you don't have any outstanding debts with the current supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) I don't know if the law has changed? If not the utility companies have the right (in the contract with them) to enter your property and disconnect your supply if they are not paid. They use a locksmith to gain entry normally by picking, not damaging the lock, so that they can re-lock it and you can get back in. If they cant then they will drill or break the lock and replace it with a new one. They must provide a way for you to collect a key or the passcode and not prevent you from accessing the property. You will probably find that your meter has been removed or disconnected. Where you stand legally, I do not know, but usually if you get a solicitor involved and have a good case they will fold quickly and offer you compensation (normally what you owe them!) Edit: I have received compensation from British Gas and SSE in the past, but it didn't get to the stage where they entered for disconnection. (harassment and stress (caused) are the two buzz words to use in correspondence!) Edited February 15, 2019 by silver pigeon69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said: Where you stand legally, I do not know, but usually if you get a solicitor involved and have a good case they will fold quickly and offer you compensation (normally what you owe them!) How would they fold if he's used electricity supplied by them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, KB1 said: How would they fold if he's used electricity supplied by them? Because he hasn't signed a contract and technically the debt is with the Landlord and therefore they have possibly illegally entered his property, caused him stress and harassed him by doing so? One of my properties is supplied by SSE, (Gas and Electric) the property is under renovation and the gas supply has been disconnected their side of the meter. They tried to charge me for Gas meter rental. Their error and compensation was to cancel the electric that was owed! Edited February 15, 2019 by silver pigeon69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just to add it's legally not a debt until it's 28 days old, up to that point it's just a bill. my port of call would be the landlord to find out why he authorised it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 hours ago, silver pigeon69 said: Because he hasn't signed a contract and technically the debt is with the Landlord and therefore they have possibly illegally entered his property, caused him stress and harassed him by doing so? One of my properties is supplied by SSE, (Gas and Electric) the property is under renovation and the gas supply has been disconnected their side of the meter. They tried to charge me for Gas meter rental. Their error and compensation was to cancel the electric that was owed! To be fair we don't know all the in's and out's enough to help him, but if he's signed a lease and has used electricity since that time, then he is liable to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) The first two things that I would look for would be - 1) Is there a clause in your lease stipulating who chooses the supplier? And 2) in the absence of such a clause, what is the standard legal default position on who gets to make that choice? It would appear that the electricity company is adamant that it has an agreement/contract with your landlord to supply your premises. If that's the case, what you're really asking is whether that agreement is legally binding or not. If it's in the lease.... Edited February 16, 2019 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, KB1 said: To be fair we don't know all the in's and out's enough to help him, but if he's signed a lease and has used electricity since that time, then he is liable to pay. Very True. He is liable, however if they are at fault he may be entitled to compensation. 3 hours ago, Retsdon said: The first two things that I would look for would be - 1) Is there a clause in your lease stipulating who chooses the supplier? And 2) in the absence of such a clause, what is the standard legal default position on who gets to make that choice? It would appear that the electricity company is adamant that it has an agreement/contract with your landlord to supply your premises. If that's the case, what you're really asking is whether that agreement is legally binding or not. If it's in the lease.... I don't think the landlord is allowed to stipulate "which" supplier the tenant uses. I believe they can stipulate conditions such as whether a key meter etc is installed. Edited February 16, 2019 by silver pigeon69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, silver pigeon69 said: I don't think the landlord is allowed to stipulate "which" supplier the tenant uses. I believe they can stipulate conditions such as whether a key meter etc is installed. Absolutely correct. A quick Google search gave me the answer to my own question... https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/tenants-guide-to-switching/#step1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 My better half used to work in project management for npower on their small and medium commercial energy supply side. I gather from her experience the rules are very different to domestic supply and you have a good deal less protection. If in doubt I would seek formal legal advice as it seems to be a much more complex world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted February 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Thank you for the replies, Gents. The situation started off with them phoning me and telling me they were my electricity supplier. I told them that they weren't as I hadn't appointed/instructed them as such. On their insistence I asked them to see a copy of the contract which bore my signature, to which they have never done, and have asked for this whenever they called. I told them that without that then they won't get a penny out of me. Any letter that came through from them was addressed to me personally and not my limited company. Again, I had informed them of this error but they said that was the information as supplied by the landlord (whom I know personally) and so told them they need to speak with him. Having managed to pick the key safe (YouTube really does have its uses) after purchasing and promptly bastardising a feeler gauge, I am now back in residence. They did make a bit of a mess as they seem to have just chucked stuff out of the way to get to the meter, which they decided not to disconnect. The figure they are now asking for I imagine reflects this visit and yes, I think it is a complete Mickey take, although in the box it says it is just for the amount of electricity used. They also say that they will return to change the locks (which they already done) and to avoid forced entry I should call them today. It just seems like a complete balls up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 When you took over the property they would have been the registered supplier to that property. You say you didn't want to be supplied by them but did you contact another company to take over the supply, or did you just continue using their supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 A few things to consider does your lease include any electricity usage? does it include or exclude the the right to instruct different suppliers? Have you been supplied energy on continuation of service from the time you moved in? When you recieved the letter stating they were the supplier and you then told them you didn’t want them did you make a conscious effort to instruct a new supplier? how many times have they told you they are supplying? how long have you not paid? How much is the bill - are we talking a few hundred or a few thousand Whilst you could probably find a breakdown of procedure if you looked hard enough - forced entry but the reply will come back as you were informed by letter and to gain a true reading prior to enforcement and check safety entry was made and the decision to allow you to continue trading and pay the bills wa preferable. without looking into the leases and all correspondence it looks like you may be on the wrong side of this one. Might be time to pay up or haggle and switch suppliers or get a solicitor on the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Business supply differs to domestic A business supply contract may be set at a fixed rate over a set period ie 1 yr 2yr 3 yr If this is the case you cannot change suppliers untill the term ends There is no signed agreement it is usualy done over the phone As to the OP you should've been sent a final reminder to pay or incur disconnection But it looks like the problem is with your landlord or previous Tenant I've had alot of problems with BG But with all these companies they have a dispute department where you lodge your complaint and they should put things on hold untill it is resolved Then you can go to the Ombudsman But i found these pretty useless and only take the word of the supplier By lodging these complaints it puts the problem in their court to sort out Therefore the supply should be reconnected untill the dispute is sorted so you may carry on with your business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 hours ago, toontastic said: When you took over the property they would have been the registered supplier to that property. You say you didn't want to be supplied by them but did you contact another company to take over the supply, or did you just continue using their supply. This is what I am also wondering? OP - did you tell them "Your not my supplier I've never instructed you" but then not transfer over to a new supplier? If you didn't transfer over to a new supplier, did you just expect to carry on using the utilities without paying for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Must of been going on a while for it to get to this stage, I currently work for a utility company and have been on many warrant jobs, a debt recovery agent obtains a court warrant, if there are no unlocked doors then the locksmith is given the go ahead to gain entry, the agent checks the meter details and checks with the supplier what they want to do, commercial properties are then either left on supply or disconnected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted February 17, 2019 Report Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 years ago I moved into my current business unit, and could not find who supplied the electricity. The units were almost new, and I was one of the first occupants. The developer did not reply to my queries, and the only other person on the estate at the time also had no idea. The meter has no markings that helped either. I just waited, and after quite some time British Gas got in touch. After a brief correspondence where it became clear the developer had appointed them I had my first bill. Apart from them having charged for electricity used prior to my arrival it all looked fine. Adjustments were made and they are still my supplier now. The OP has simply dug his heels in, and created a bad situation for himself. He could so very easily have had a level headed conversation with both supplier and landlord. He has quite simply created a rod for his own back, and could have avoided all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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