Old Boggy Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Just read an interesting article in this weeks Shooting Times where Matt Cross asks Natural England`s Director of Strategy Implementation, Caroline Cotterell the following -: ST: "Despite repeated attempts at scaring, a farm suffered serious damage to a pea crop throughout the growing season. Can the farmer arrange for the pigeons to be shot over the pea stubble to reduce numbers and prevent damage next growing season ?" NE: " Yes, assuming that a crop such as peas - which will be vulnerable to serious damage by woodpigeons - is going to be sown by the farmer in the area." Her reply goes on to state that -: "lethal control of woodpigeons can be used where there is no alternative satisfactory solution. The farmer must take reasonable steps to prevent crop damage by other (non-lethal) methods, unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in their circumstances.The farmer can authorise others to carry out shooting for them". I think that if this is correct, after all, a director of NE says so !, then this creates a good precedent to shoot pigeons over stubble, something that has appeared to be a grey area thus far. It also somewhat simplifies and makes more common sense to the precise wording of GL31. Sounds good enough to me. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 So ( irrespective of the crop ) what is the difference between what she is reported to have said, and the old GL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted May 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, Scully said: So ( irrespective of the crop ) what is the difference between what she is reported to have said, and the old GL? Not a great deal from the old GL, but it shows a bit more common sense than the wording of GL31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Think I would like that in writing from NE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Lord Boggington, the major difference must surely be the amount of non lethal methods carried out and cutting down all the "sitty" Trees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, Scully said: So ( irrespective of the crop ) what is the difference between what she is reported to have said, and the old GL? As Old Boggy above, very little; the old old GL included (shall we call them) the implementation ground rules which NE had missed from the old GL04. When they revised this under duress, being the nature of the beast they simply coul;d not do other than fiddle with something that wasn't broken to suit their own agenda - I can't think of any other reason than that to fiddle - and came up with GL31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Ta. It puzzled me as the onus was still on the shooter to satisfy himself that all had been done regarding non lethal methods, but still very much open to interpretation! Like you say, fiddling for the sake of fiddling. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Old Boggy said: Just read an interesting article in this weeks Shooting Times where Matt Cross asks Natural England`s Director of Strategy Implementation, Caroline Cotterell the following -: ST: "Despite repeated attempts at scaring, a farm suffered serious damage to a pea crop throughout the growing season. Can the farmer arrange for the pigeons to be shot over the pea stubble to reduce numbers and prevent damage next growing season ?" NE: " Yes, assuming that a crop such as peas - which will be vulnerable to serious damage by woodpigeons - is going to be sown by the farmer in the area." Her reply goes on to state that -: "lethal control of woodpigeons can be used where there is no alternative satisfactory solution. The farmer must take reasonable steps to prevent crop damage by other (non-lethal) methods, unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in their circumstances.The farmer can authorise others to carry out shooting for them". I think that if this is correct, after all, a director of NE says so !, then this creates a good precedent to shoot pigeons over stubble, something that has appeared to be a grey area thus far. It also somewhat simplifies and makes more common sense to the precise wording of GL31. Sounds good enough to me. OB No changes then smoke and mirrors at your individual risk? I'll stick with the NGO sdvice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundodger Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) no shooting until it is in writing. Edited May 23, 2019 by Sundodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Sundodger said: no shooting until it is in writing. Yep. Fortunately here with regards to birds we're in that quiet period so have a few weeks grace which hopefully they can use to sort this mess out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Old Boggy. I've tried searching Shooting Times website for the stubble quote without success. Are you able please to scan the page in and post here or let me know the issue No and date of the appropriate magazine and I will try and locate one. Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted May 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 9 hours ago, Bobba said: Old Boggy. I've tried searching Shooting Times website for the stubble quote without success. Are you able please to scan the page in and post here or let me know the issue No and date of the appropriate magazine and I will try and locate one. Many thanks. Hi Bobba, I have attached page 24 of Shooting Times dated 22nd May 2019. Hopefully the scan is readable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Sooo, any opinions about if my lawn that I'm patching up qualifies as crop cos pigeons keep hammering it. I currently send the dog out or run out myself but I'd rather shoot em so they don't keep coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Old Boggy , many thanks, Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 Shooting Times should know better IMHO, How could you justify something which has not been quantified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 On 22/05/2019 at 15:34, Old Boggy said: Just read an interesting article in this weeks Shooting Times where Matt Cross asks Natural England`s Director of Strategy Implementation, Caroline Cotterell the following -: ST: "Despite repeated attempts at scaring, a farm suffered serious damage to a pea crop throughout the growing season. Can the farmer arrange for the pigeons to be shot over the pea stubble to reduce numbers and prevent damage next growing season ?" NE: " Yes, assuming that a crop such as peas - which will be vulnerable to serious damage by woodpigeons - is going to be sown by the farmer in the area." Her reply goes on to state that -: "lethal control of woodpigeons can be used where there is no alternative satisfactory solution. The farmer must take reasonable steps to prevent crop damage by other (non-lethal) methods, unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in their circumstances.The farmer can authorise others to carry out shooting for them". I think that if this is correct, after all, a director of NE says so !, then this creates a good precedent to shoot pigeons over stubble, something that has appeared to be a grey area thus far. It also somewhat simplifies and makes more common sense to the precise wording of GL31. Sounds good enough to me. OB If this is the case shooting stubbles ,then there is no reason to employ none lethal methods as you are there to shoot the pigeons to prevent future damage . I like it . harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelever Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 On 22/05/2019 at 16:39, TIGHTCHOKE said: Lord Boggington, the major difference must surely be the amount of non lethal methods carried out and cutting down all the "sitty" Trees! Hmmm? How would the authorities take to one cutting down a 150 old oak as a means to stop pigeons using it as a sitty tree?🤔🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted June 1, 2019 Report Share Posted June 1, 2019 I’m still sure that the reason for the change was the commercialisation of pigeon shooting in defiance of old GL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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