Brexit - merged threads

[12gauge82]

I think the benefits agenda is quite a separate issue, I believe the reason no government would dare to tackle it is you would create dangerous people and civil unrest, some on benefits would not work if they were cut and would simply turn to crime, I honestly think you would see riots. That's why we all know of people who claim benefits that they have no right to and are playing the system. Obviously many on benefits also need them and should be on them, before anyone jumps on me.

[Rewulf]

Its a separate issue ,but part of the attraction of this country is its generous benefits system.

Why exactly do we have so much migration ? If it wasnt so, would Brexit even have happened ?
Im not saying that was the only reason by any stretch, but its a major factor.

Is the draw of the UK because we have such great work opportunities, standard of living and a rich diverse culture ?
Of course, if you are the type of migrant who believes in hard work, honesty and integration, espousing our values and laws.

But it also attracts the lazy workshy types, who have no intention of doing any of the above - free money , no questions asked.

Our country appears to embrace both types, and this is what we need to gain control over.
Whilst getting the home grown ones into some sort of meaningful employment, before the next generation hit the streets.

[12gauge82]

23 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Its a separate issue ,but part of the attraction of this country is its generous benefits system.

Why exactly do we have so much migration ? If it wasnt so, would Brexit even have happened ?
Im not saying that was the only reason by any stretch, but its a major factor.

Is the draw of the UK because we have such great work opportunities, standard of living and a rich diverse culture ?
Of course, if you are the type of migrant who believes in hard work, honesty and integration, espousing our values and laws.

But it also attracts the lazy workshy types, who have no intention of doing any of the above - free money , no questions asked.

Our country appears to embrace both types, and this is what we need to gain control over.
Whilst getting the home grown ones into some sort of meaningful employment, before the next generation hit the streets.

I hadn't really thought of that, you are definitely right.

[Rewulf]

[TIGHTCHOKE]

How very apt!

[panoma1]

40 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Yep and when the SNP takes Scotland out of the union and ain't got a pot to **** in, they can go cap in hand to their EU masters and join the other countries drawing money from the EU rather than putting it in themselves!....the fault in the plan is when the UK leaves the EU............where will the EU get the money to give to Scotland? Especially after the EU grandees have drawn their wedge out!

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Yep and when the SNP takes Scotland out of the union and ain't got a pot to **** in, they can go cap in hand to their EU masters and join the other countries drawing money from the EU rather than putting it in themselves!....the fault in the plan is when the UK leaves the EU............where will the EU get the money to give to Scotland? Especially after the EU grandees have drawn their wedge out!

Its Ok Nicola's got a plan, shes going to sell off all of the publicly owned British assets and take control of all the oil and gas..

Kick all our MOD installations out, and adopt a new currency , the Groat ! 
Her and Alex will make Balmoral the Scottish Chequers, and they will rule the greater empire of Scotland from there.
No flies on that one I tell ya 😄

[panoma1]

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Its Ok Nicola's got a plan, shes going to sell off all of the publicly owned British assets and take control of all the oil and gas..

Kick all our MOD installations out, and adopt a new currency , the Groat ! 
Her and Alex will make Balmoral the Scottish Chequers, and they will rule the greater empire of Scotland from there.
No flies on that one I tell ya 😄

Oh! That's ok then! 😅

[Gordon R]

Scotland cannot enter the EU. Spain will never agree, so it's a non starter.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

Scotland cannot enter the EU. Spain will never agree, so it's a non starter.

It wont stop her promising the electorate it can be done.
Or indeed, telling Scottish voters that the books will balance when they leave.
Even if they did somehow get a leave vote, and join the EU (somehow) they would have to take the Euro, thats the rules now, and that would spell utter financial destruction for them.
Personally ,I think the SNP have no intention of being tied to Europe.
They will just promise anything to achieve the obsessive dream of a 'free' Scotland.

[Aled]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

They will just promise anything to achieve the obsessive dream of a 'free' Scotland.

Reminds me of another group of people...now who were they now...??

[Gordon R]

I trust that the Scots are bright enough to be able to see the lies that she peddles, although she has managed to pull the wool over their eyes so far.

Quote

Reminds me of another group of people...now who were they now...??

The Remainers.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Aled said:

Reminds me of another group of people...now who were they now...??

Pretty much all politicians 

 

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

I trust that the Scots are bright enough to be able to see the lies that she peddles, although she has managed to pull the wool over their eyes so far.

 

Thats just it , some promises are more achievable , and believable than others, Sturgeons sums appear to my untrained eye, to be somewhat wide of the mark !
Labours, Abbot massaged figures are fantasy land, they would pretty much say anything to get in power, they have a vision, but that vision only makes sense if you dont run the numbers.
Are people on both sides of the border bright enough to see through it, the Scots  were in 2014, and we were in 2016, just.
Hopefully good things come from the impending no deal Brexit, and we can retain our sensibilities and not knee jerk into something stupid.

[Aled]

LOL

[12gauge82]

I don't think the Scots cant see what the SNP is doing, the SNPs supporters knew a vote for remain in the Brexit referendum was a way to put pressure on the government for another referendum, which really annoys me, it's two totally separate issues and how many people who have no desire to remain in the EU voted remain for a totally separate agenda. Democracy really has been done over.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't think the Scots cant see what the SNP is doing, the SNPs supporters knew a vote for remain in the Brexit referendum was a way to put pressure on the government for another referendum, which really annoys me, it's two totally separate issues and how many people who have no desire to remain in the EU voted remain for a totally separate agenda. Democracy really has been done over.

Although its only 4 years since a resounding 'stay' vote, and , in normal circumstances, another indyref would be very premature, Brexit, when it happens, does change the landscape.
It might change it to a situation where Scotland is better off, or not, this remains to be seen.

Sturgeon knows that if nothing bad comes of Brexit, there would be no point in holding indyref 2, as she would certainly lose, and then have to fade into the background to lick her wounds.
What she and the SNP are doing at the moment is preparing the battlefield  for a bad Brexit, and her ensuing bid to extract Scotland from the mire. To my mind it still doesnt guarantee a win, but for her , hope springs eternal.

[Gordon R]

The woman is a halfwit.

[KB1]

He should have been allowed to see his baby through.....

[Rewulf]

As we approach the theoretical cut off point where the much mooted 'deal' with the EU becomes an impossibility, the result of which negates the possibility of a peoples vote on the type of deal we have (not) been given.

As Ive often said, the EU cannot give us any kind of favourable deal, its very existence depends on that for a variety if reasons, but just on the absolute outside chance it capitulates at the last minute (it wont ) and gives us say, some kind of Canada ++ deal ect, or indeed Chequers lite.
What if parliament pushed through a referendum on that deal ?
A referendum to either accept that deal, or refuse it.
This question is posed more towards remainers I would imagine, but obviously everyones in for a vote/opinion.
How would this pan out if we dont accept the 'deal'
In your mind , does this mean a no deal, hard Brexit, or a 2nd referendum, or the rather unlikely ,stay in till something is sorted out ?

Obviously theoretical at this point, because we simply dont know whats going on behind the scenes.
Im just interested in how this 'peoples vote' thing would work, or not ,as the case may be.

[JohnfromUK]

This was the question;

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

The vote was won by 'leave'.

Whatever the 'deal' or 'no deal' turns out to be is immaterial - the vote says we should leave.  There was a vote, it had a definitive outcome, and the 'details' of any 'deal' or terms were not part of the question on which people voted. (Which is incidentally why I voted remain as I didn't understand under what terms we would be leaving.  I think it was a very badly chosen question with hindsight, but it is difficult to set a clear question when you don't know what the conditions of leave will be).

However - since the vote was leave ........ democracy has chosen leave, so I support that (as should all others who believe in democracy).  IF there was another vote with the same (or similar question) I would support the original 'leave' outcome.

Even if there is no 'deal', we must leave - because that was the outcome of the referendum.  There should be no 'second referendum' and we should get on and leave under the best terms we can negotiate.

Things are not helped by an idiotic attitude from the Labour party ...... whose leaders campaigned for leave - but now say (as part of their six 'tests') that leaving should have exactly the same (i.e. single market) trade conditions as when we were in!  In other words be subject to all the rules - and no longer have any say in setting the rules (not that we had much anyway).  Brexit in name only.  If we accept all those rules - we would be better staying in.

They are just playing a political game, which is very childish when it is in the interests of all to get a good deal - and Parliamentary support would give strength to the negotiators.

IF there is either a deal - or no deal and the Government puts legislation before Parliament to complete the leave process - and Parliament rejects it - we then have a broken democracy and I do not know what the future holds for us like that?  Perhaps we will end up with a Corbyn/SNP far left coalition and end up like Venezuela (but without the oil reserves)?

It would be a very worrying prospect indeed that a referendum result is ignored/overturned by Parliament.

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It would be a very worrying prospect indeed that a referendum result is ignored/overturned by Parliament.

It would indeed, but there does seem to be plans afoot to dilute the consequences of the result, Chequers being a prime example, and the Peoples vote another.
The question is, if the peoples vote goes ahead, and the 'deal' is voted down, what then ?

Do the proponents of this vote, believe this signifies in effect the 2nd referendum, and this makes Brexit dead in the water? Listening to the rhetoric, I believe they think this to be so.

[Gordon R]

Which idiot actually invented the term "The People's Vote"? Did they have no grasp of our democratic system?

The people have already voted.

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Which idiot actually invented the term "The People's Vote"? Did they have no grasp of our democratic system?

The people have already voted.

Originally put forward, and a petition exists, by the (not so ) Indy.
Now taken up by every Remoaner and political limelight grabber on the pro EU side.

[Vince Green]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 14:25, Gordon R said:

Scotland cannot enter the EU. Spain will never agree, so it's a non starter.

+1 Scotland is not actually a country despite their delusions.

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 16:04, Gordon R said:

The woman is a halfwit.

You give her more credit than I would

[Vince Green]

36 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Which idiot actually invented the term "The People's Vote"? Did they have no grasp of our democratic system?

The people have already voted.

The term "The People's" is clearly an attempt to make it appear its the people that want it. The idiot of which you speak is probably George Soros through one of his stooges.