JohnfromUK Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 I think the 'negotiations' suffer from two things; Barnier regards negotiations as demanding from others and offering/concessing nothing in return - a tactic we have let him operate for far too long Our lot don't stick to any demands, but give in every time, and don't seem clear on what they want anyway as they are constantly undermined by various people who should be on their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, JohnfromUK said: I think the 'negotiations' suffer from two things; Barnier regards negotiations as demanding from others and offering/concessing nothing in return - a tactic we have let him operate for far too long Our lot don't stick to any demands, but give in every time, and don't seem clear on what they want anyway as they are constantly undermined by various people who should be on their side. The problem with our negotiating team has always been about keeping both the remainers and leavers in the electorate and parliament happy. This is the flaw in the position, but the problem is, without parliamentary support, it has, and will continue to be , difficult to deliver the clean break we voted for. The EU are pushing us into a hostile no deal scenario, which I believe has always been their aim, to make us look bad, it hurts our global reputation, and harms us economically, I believe the government know this, and are trying to avoid the trap, but it will inevitably end in acrimony. Now if the remainers in the electorate and government accept these key observations, and stop thinking the sun shines out of Brussels backside, maybe we can get behind the leaving effort, and stop this jaded dream of calling it all off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 hours ago, oowee said: This is not the same. Euro workers that would have come here previously feeling uncomforfortable to do so. Financial institutions are NOT moving IT development to Europe because workers won’t come here. It is simply because it is cheaper to offshore/nearshore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Rewulf said: Yes how quickly they forget, it makes me sick every time I here the EU commission talk about us having to pay what is owed, we've already paid in blood and money many times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 hours ago, AVB said: Financial institutions are NOT moving IT development to Europe because workers won’t come here. It is simply because it is cheaper to offshore/nearshore. I don't doubt it. I am talking about IT graphic artists for 3d modelling that won't come to the UK because of perceptions. We need them to have an 'English' content that comes from cultural exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 7 hours ago, oowee said: 15 hours ago, smokingdragon said: I work for a finance multi national and under the covers they are shifting everything to Europe now. I work in IT and the migration of IT stuff is getting scary and this is common. We have good European guys who who will no longer consider a posting to UK and we are having to offload stuff to Eastern europe to keep going. From my perspective Brexit is insular and approacing xenophobic. I am seeing so much of this happening now. 21 minutes ago, oowee said: I don't doubt it. I am talking about IT graphic artists for 3d modelling that won't come to the UK because of perceptions. We need them to have an 'English' content that comes from cultural exposure. So absolutely nothing to do with Brexit then ?! Glad we got that sorted ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Quote From my perspective Brexit is insular and approacing xenophobic. No quantum leap in logic at all. Let's not facts or bias cloud the issue. Who dreams up this stuff? You need a new perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 48 minutes ago, Rewulf said: So absolutely nothing to do with Brexit then ?! Glad we got that sorted ? ? Brexit is the only reason in this case. Mostly not a big problem though as we can bring them in and out on rotation. That way they get used to the place and see that it's not as bad as they think it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, oowee said: ? Brexit is the only reason in this case. Mostly not a big problem though as we can bring them in and out on rotation. That way they get used to the place and see that it's not as bad as they think it will be. As bad as they think it will be ?? Where are they from , some utopian EU city where there are no 'xenophobes' no violence and beer flows out of fountains ? ? Or possibly from a place thats far worse than here, because lets face it, despite what you try to convince yourself, 'here' isnt that bad. If it were so terrible , we wouldnt have 3- 4 million EU citizens here already would we ? Rather than trying to 'convince' them to come to the land of knuckle dragging racists, Im sure they are quite capable of using their IT skills to research what the UK is really like, possibly by talking to their countrymen who are already here ? Unless of course , you are trying to convince them to move to Mr Khans London ? Good luck with that, because thats a different matter entirely, I wouldnt move to London for 3 x what I earn now. But again, what has this got to do with Brexit, did the UK turn into a nation of racists 2 years ago in your eyes? Is that what youre trying to convince yourself ? Do you seriously believe that this country is going to be less welcoming to high quality EU labour ? Its a leftist media fallacy, designed ,as usual to undermine the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Chuckle of the day but it raises a valid insight to some remain supporters. After reading through some 50 or 60 posts on the pinko broadcasting website comments calling out voters stupid, uneducated, thick, racist, nazi, xenophobic, sexist, little Englanders, etc I came across a post from a remain supporter complaining that it was disrespectful and rude to call remain supporters Remoaners and demanding it should be stopped.. Now I have seen it all Edited July 23, 2018 by Yellow Bear spacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Rewulf said: and before that the flag was French, yet we are still here, walk or run away. Take the hit and move on, I'd still rather a no deal than give the EU what seems like everything it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Jack Dart shared a post — with Drew Galdron and 7 others. July 19 at 3:48 PM · We're at 9K votes. Keep sharing folks! Edit by Rewulf ,votes are now 259,000 Jack Dart created a poll. July 18 at 1:31 PM · Let’s make this the largest poll in Facebook history. Vote then share! 2 YEARS AFTER THE REFERENDUM - SAME QUESTION - REMAIN OR LEAVE? 36%Remain 64%Leave Oh dear! ?? Edited July 23, 2018 by Rewulf Vote count added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Well, Jacob Reese-Mogg says that it could take up to 50 years before the country is on the plus side of the ledger after Brexit. That has to be a worry. His 'The overwhelming opportunity of the Brexit is over the next 50 years' is basically code for 'there is disaster the offing, we're going to suffer massive pain, but don't blame me because I can see in the tea leaves that after I'm dead my grandchildren will move to the sunny uplands of freedom and economic prosperity.' If it's going to take until most of the current population is dead before we're back to where we are now, what would be the point of jumping out of the boat in the first place? But of course, people like Mogg don't really think it will happen because this government is like one of those people you see on fail videos, standing on a ledge threatening to jump but in reality expecting that if they do responsible people will either grab them before they leap or else set some kind of cushioning below to stop them smashing themselves to a pulp in the street below. In short, they're relying on the grownups in the EU to save them from the logical consequences of their deliberate act of self harm -the crash-out Brexit. It's nothing less than a national humiliation. Edited July 23, 2018 by Retsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Only 50 years. ? guess if I had millions In the bank I wouldn't care either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Well, Jacob Reese-Mogg says that it could take up to 50 years before the country is on the plus side of the ledger after Brexit. That has to be a worry. His 'The overwhelming opportunity of the Brexit is over the next 50 years' is basically code for 'there is disaster the offing, we're going to suffer massive pain, but don't blame me because I can see in the tea leaves that after I'm dead my grandchildren will move to the sunny uplands of freedom and economic prosperity.' If it's going to take until most of the current population is dead before we're back to where we are now, what would be the point of jumping out of the boat in the first place? But of course, they don't really think it will happen because this government is like one of those people you see on fail videos, standing on a ledge threatening to jump but really expecting that if they do responsible people will either grab them before they leap or else set some kind of cushioning below to stop them smashing themselves to a pulp in the street below. In short, they're relying on the grownups in the EU to save them from jumping. It's nothing less than a national humiliation. Really Retsdon ? You are reading a pro EU media organ twist the mans words, and taking it as truth , what did he actually say ? "he said that we won’t know the “full economic consequences for a very long time” and that “the overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years”. How does that translate to " We wont see the benefits of Brexit for 50 years ?" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 All credit to JRM for taking the long view. One person says something and the moaners seize on it - normally out of context - as if it is 100% accurate. No-one knows what will happen after Brexit. Show me the person who says he / she knows for certain and I will show you a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Gordon R said: All credit to JRM for taking the long view. One person says something and the moaners seize on it - normally out of context - as if it is 100% accurate. No-one knows what will happen after Brexit. Show me the person who says he / she knows for certain and I will show you a liar. Exactly. Whereas I can pretty accurately describe what would happen if we stayed in the future U.S.S. E. Mogg is a savvy businessman, he understands world markets and money, and would make an excellent chancellor or home sec. Or would you prefer Dianne Abbott ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Tough choice - Diane knows that 2 + 2 is 5 and has the wow (stunning good looks) factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Gordon R said: No-one knows what will happen after Brexit. Ah, but they do. You just don't want to listen to them. The thing is Gordon, in my heart I'm a Brexit man. I don't like the EU at all - never did. But this blind wishful thinking has to stop. Unless, after wasting 2 whole years, this stupid government pulls its finger out quick sharp and gets on with getting some kind of workable interim agreement (they don't have time for a proper one) in place before March, the country is headed for an economic train smash the likes of which nobody in our lifetimes has ever seen. Think Greece. The moral of the Boy That Cried Wolf was that, in the end, the wolf was real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Retsdon said: The moral of the Boy That Cried Wolf was that, in the end, the wolf was real. So who should we listen to? Mark Carney , Anna Soubrey, Major , Blair ? Who 'knows' ? Youve just listened to a piece with JRM and come out with an epic misquote as gospel ! So whos a reliable source of apres Brexit fortune telling ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Rewulf said: So whos a reliable source of apres Brexit fortune telling ? A fellow Brexiter. http://www.eureferendum.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Retsdon said: Ah, but they do. You just don't want to listen to them. The thing is Gordon, in my heart I'm a Brexit man. I don't like the EU at all - never did. But this blind wishful thinking has to stop. Unless, after wasting 2 whole years, this stupid government pulls its finger out quick sharp and gets on with getting some kind of workable interim agreement (they don't have time for a proper one) in place before March, the country is headed for an economic train smash the likes of which nobody in our lifetimes has ever seen. Think Greece. The moral of the Boy That Cried Wolf was that, in the end, the wolf was real. Retsdon.. You are arguing for remain and yet your location is showing as Saudi Arabia?? Don't quite get why your so bothered about it (reminds me of Peter Hain coming to the UK and then campaigning against apartheid) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, hambone said: Don't quite get why your so bothered about it It's my country, and if I can ever get back there with my family past May's exile law, I hope to live there again sometime. 7 minutes ago, hambone said: You are arguing for remain No I'm not (although under the current circumstances it wouldn't be the worst option) . I'm arguing for a grownup approach to what is a very complex process. Edited July 23, 2018 by Retsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Retsdon said: A fellow Brexiter. http://www.eureferendum.com/ Thats a Brexiter is it , doesnt sound like it to me ! Sounds like another remoaning journo trying to make a name for himself, twisting and misquoting leave arguments. Open skies isnt even an EU controlled agreement ,it just treats the EU as a single country. ] Norway and Iceland acceded to the Agreement from 2011 and their airlines enjoy the same rights as EU airlines.[2] As part of the common European aviation area. Consequences of the UK leaving the EU[edit] There was some debate as to what consequences the UK leaving the EU (Brexit) in 2019 would have on UK and United States airlines flying between the UK and United States.[15] Both the EU and the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU, David Davis MP, have since confirmed it was likely the UK would leave the EU-US Open Skies Agreement.[16][17] It has subsequently emerged that the UK has initiated negotiations with the US on a future US-UK Air Transport Agreement.[18] So again, more supposition ,and BS designed to promote fear . 5 minutes ago, Retsdon said: No I'm not (although under the current circumstances it wouldn't be the worst option) . I'm arguing for a grownup approach to what is a very complex process. A complex process you dont want to see come to completion , a process you didnt vote for ,or have to face any consequences of. We voted , were leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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