toxo Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Retsdon said: A Churchill 'quote' ? Funny. Here is the the real thing from a letter to Anthony Eden written in October 1942.. 'Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.' Or from his 1946 speech in Zurich...‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.' You do Churchill a disservice by making him out to be some kind of petty little John Bull. He was very much an internationalist. No one could make Churchill out to be a petty man. As far as a united states of Europe is concerned, it would have been a grand idea if the leaders were elected on merit instead of being given a seat just because... An unelected committee is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said: I'll take that, lol. Talking of hate crimes I'm off to terrorise some dear... I do hope you mean DEER , otherwise thats another hate crime 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said: I'll take that, lol. Talking of hate crimes I'm off to terrorise some dear... Not some old dear I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 Is there not a petition or somesuch to reach all the leavers to say "If we don't leave the EU on the 29th March 2019 I will never vote for either Tory or Labour again in my lifetime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I do hope you mean DEER , otherwise thats another hate crime 😆 hahaha, typo, I did indeed mean deer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 minute ago, toxo said: Is there not a petition or somesuch to reach all the leavers to say "If we don't leave the EU on the 29th March 2019 I will never vote for either Tory or Labour again in my lifetime? Probably wont need one, I never voted for them before, and theres plenty wont vote for them again. This is a great point of awakening for a lot of people, where the political class has been truly exposed for what they are . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Probably wont need one, I never voted for them before, and theres plenty wont vote for them again. This is a great point of awakening for a lot of people, where the political class has been truly exposed for what they are . But I suspect a few million signatures would make those intending to thwart the result think twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, toxo said: But I suspect a few million signatures would make those intending to thwart the result think twice. Im not sure about that, 17.4 million X s didnt ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Im not sure about that, 17.4 million X s didnt ? That was when they thought they were untouchable. If they know a few million of us are going to throw them off the gravy train it'll be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, toxo said: That was when they thought they were untouchable. If they know a few million of us are going to throw them off the gravy train it'll be different. Im not being funny , but if they havnt worked that out already, they need to go back to school. If we dont leave, or get a BRINO , everyone who voted leave is going to be somewhat annoyed, and will think about casting their vote outside of the mainstream parties. It happened in Italy, and in other countries, far right and anti establishment parties are on the rise, populism isnt a dirty word, neither is nationalism, but you could be forgiven for thinking it , listening to some politicos and lefty media. They will reap what they sow, and what they are sowing right now, is anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, toxo said: That was when they thought they were untouchable. If they know a few million of us are going to throw them off the gravy train it'll be different. Throw em off the gravy train? They made the rules and their rules will favour themselves, gold plated pensions, non executive directorships of national and multi national companies, CEO jobs, highly paid part time consultancies, elevation to the Lords....all "appointments" obtained from contacts made, favours done and services rendered whilst in their jobs as MP's.......and I'd wager, without a competitive interview in sight! Edited February 27, 2019 by panoma1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) Macron has said France would block the extension of the Brexit leaving date " without a clear objective" based on a "new choice" by the British......is, I wonder, a "new choice" code for a new referendum? Edited February 27, 2019 by panoma1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 6 hours ago, pinfireman said: However, public opinion can be swayed by false information....especially if the leader the voted for, feeds it to them! You give them more credit than they are due; it takes a bit more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 26/02/2019 at 15:37, Scully said: No chance; we're British. The Brits often give the French stick for being surrender monkies, but I've never regarded them as such; they got rid of their monarchy and if they're not happy about something they will take to the streets. We will complain bitterly, whinge and sulk for ages, then someone will organise a rally but it'll rain so we'll stop at home. I seriously doubt we will be leaving, and everyone who is opposed to us leaving will feel heartened by a cynical Labour turnabout to favour another referendum, and those who oppose us leaving will gather momentum in their pursuit of overturning the democratic vote of the majority. We shouldn't even be contemplating another vote, and even if there was one it should only be about our method of leaving. To 'remain' shouldn't even be an option as the majority have already voted to leave. That part has been settled. I regard those who would overturn that democratic vote as scum, absolute scum. These are bad days for our democratic process. Yep, agree with 100% Scully, but I'm getting tired of all this bloody ducking and diving now.🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, das said: Yep, agree with 100% Scully, but I'm getting tired of all this bloody ducking and diving now.🤔 Me too. I just wonder how the politicians will go about explaining themselves and justifying their actions to the general public of actually overturning the democratic vote of the majority. I am currently working for a local farmer, whose wife told me today that neither her, her parents. her husband, her son and daughter in law will never vote Tory again if we don’t effectively leave the EU. Her husband and father are particularly outraged at what is going on apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 23/02/2019 at 20:06, 12gauge82 said: The article states "Data loggers would also become mandatory to log breaches in the speed limit." I just find my car watching my every move a bit over the top, its the level of government control I object to, particularly when it's being stipulated by an unelected body in a foreign land. On 26/02/2019 at 15:37, Scully said: No chance; we're British. The Brits often give the French stick for being surrender monkies, but I've never regarded them as such; they got rid of their monarchy and if they're not happy about something they will take to the streets. We will complain bitterly, whinge and sulk for ages, then someone will organise a rally but it'll rain so we'll stop at home. I seriously doubt we will be leaving, and everyone who is opposed to us leaving will feel heartened by a cynical Labour turnabout to favour another referendum, and those who oppose us leaving will gather momentum in their pursuit of overturning the democratic vote of the majority. We shouldn't even be contemplating another vote, and even if there was one it should only be about our method of leaving. To 'remain' shouldn't even be an option as the majority have already voted to leave. That part has been settled. I regard those who would overturn that democratic vote as scum, absolute scum. These are bad days for our democratic process. 1 minute ago, Scully said: Me too. I just wonder how the politicians will go about explaining themselves and justifying their actions to the general public of actually overturning the democratic vote of the majority. I am currently working for a local farmer, whose wife told me today that neither her, her parents. her husband, her son and daughter in law will never vote Tory again if we don’t effectively leave the EU. Her husband and father are particularly outraged at what is going on apparently. I would have considered not voting for the Tories again, but, who in the name of blue hell would I vote for? Certainly not Jeremy Corvid and his numpties, Lib/Dems, bloody snowflakes, Greens (joke), Ukip only alternative really (if they quickly get their act together)?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 hours ago, pinfireman said: Please give us something other than the £350 million...whick the LEAVE Campaign came up with! Lead by Dominic Cummings, not Farage................it,s the ONLY thing Remoaners can come up with....How about ALL the fake promises and threats from Remain,s Project Fear? Easy Gordon, because the Remoaners are aware that he alone can stir up opposition to May,s sellout! All the other Leavers have been silenced! It,s a pre-emptive strike against Farage and his new party. Somehow Raja, I doubt that..... That told him, well done👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 This is what we democrats have been up against since the day after we WON the Referendum.......... Fresh from publishing their mad new diet calling for people to eat only one-tenth of a sausage and a quarter of an egg a day – which naturally turned out to be authored by people who didn’t follow the diet themselves and funded by a globe-trotting billionaire with a private jet – once-esteemed medical journal The Lancet has done it again with a new Brexit scare paper this week. It just so happens that almost every author is either a diehard Remain campaigner or has extensive professional links with the EU… The lead author is Nick Fahy, now a researcher at Oxford but who previously worked for over a decade in the European Commission. Naturally… Next is Tamara Hervey, an EU-funded Jean Monnet Professor of European Law who amusingly describes herself as living in “Sheffield, Europe” on Twitter. Don’t tell her Sheffield voted to Leave… David Stuckler is a committed anti-Austerity campaigner who authored a book subtitled “Why Austerity Kills” and has even blamed the rise of the Nazis on austerity. Cuckoo… Mike Galsworthy will be familiar to most people as one of the prolific and obnoxious Remainiacs on Twitter, he is effectively a full-time commentator and campaigner and has founded Scientists for EU, Healthier IN the EU, Scientists for Labour and NHS Against Brexit. Literally the last person you would go to if you wanted a balanced and impartial view on Brexit… Martin McKee is another full-on Remainiac, his Twitter account is festoonedwith #FBPE and a giant low-res EU flag. McKee is also a member of the European Commission’s ‘Expert Panel on Investing in Health’ and until recently was President of the EU-funded European Public Health Association. He co-founded Healthier IN the EU with Galsworthy, and to top it off was also a co-author on Stuckler’s paper blaming the Nazis on austerity. Full house! Naturally this hasn’t stopped the media and smug Remainers like Peston from seizing upon the report like it is gospel truth. It might as well have been a European Commission press release… 9 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Here's one for starters; his immediate backtracking over the £350M per week. I'm doing nothing of the sort fella, I'm just a normal bloke with different views to you. Somehow Raja, I doubt that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: 2. Lies over UK immigration 3. Lies over global immigration 4. Lies over the EU being unelected 5. Lies over the proportion of UK law derived from the EU He talks well, he like many of his populist brethren talk in sound bites and use phrases that appeal to all our individual and collective biases whilst throwing in lies and untruths. Can you not see the irony of constantly referring to remainers as remoaners - this is likely to come back and bite some people (hard!) I'm not singling Farage out but he sold you a pup then all but disappeared. To be fair he does deserve credit for distancing himself from UKIP. Sorry but you doubt what? Total garbage! His statements over immigration have proved to be true! . The EU Commission (who really rule the EU) are UNELECTED! UK law has been subsumed under EU law.. as for Remainers being called Remoaners, that is ALL you have done since the day after the Referendum! Not a day goes by without Remoaners whinging! In a democracy, they should have accepted the result! We did in 1975. 8 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Fickleness on this thread, there was gloating and cause for celebration a couple days ago swiftly followed by bemoaning the events in parliament yesterday. That was not bemoaning...that was complaining that the vote by the People had been overturned by a bunch of greedy troughers in Parliament. A bunch of hypocrites. Corbyn, anti-EU for 40 years, suddenly has a Road to Damascus moment! Yeah, right! Bercow overrides the Constitution... 8 hours ago, Rewulf said: Terrible isnt it ? You would be right here doing the same if we had a leave government and remain won. How would YOU feel if remain had got 52% of the vote but we ended up leaving anyway, after a long drawn out abuse of democratic process ? Its that smug attitude where you think youre on the right side of the divide that gets me, try walking in someone elses shoes. That,s something he will never do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Retsdon said: A Churchill 'quote' ? Funny. Here is the the real thing from a letter to Anthony Eden written in October 1942.. 'Hard as it is to say now.. I look forward to a United States of Europe, in which the barriers between the nations will be greatly minimised and unrestricted travel will be possible.' Or from his 1946 speech in Zurich...‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.' You do Churchill a disservice by making him out to be some kind of petty little John Bull. He was very much an internationalist. You will notice from the dates of these speeches that we were either at war, or had just emerged from said war as victors! Churchill believed that a United Staes of Europe should be lead by Great Britain! At no time did he ever think that we would be lead by the nose by our former adversaries! He also said, "If the choice is Europe, or the sea, we should always choose the sea"! 7 hours ago, Rewulf said: A. Its not a Churchill quote, read the top B. He also stated 'We are with Europe but not of it' and 'If it is choice between Europe and the open sea, Britain will always choose the open sea' He like the idea of a U.S. of E , but he never intended Britain to join it , much less be governed by it. A petty John Bull ? He a also, according to some, a white supremacist and 'colonialist' You remember your Labour remainers dissing him off as a villain 2 weeks a go, and you tell me I do him a disservice ? Hilarious ! Excellent! 7 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Yes, it is terrible.That's the tragedy of all this, whatever happens around 50% of the population are doing to be seriously disenfranchised. It's nigh on hopeless and precisely why there should have been no referendum in the first place. I'm not intentionally being smug, there's still a long way for this to go and I reckon it's gonna run and run and run, meanwhile pretty much everything else is on the back-burner. If the EU is a nefarious as soon would suggest then they must be truly rubbing their hands together in glee. Very sad. It,s not around 50%...it,s 52% for Leaving and 48% for staying. A clear majority....1.4 million majority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, pinfireman said: You will notice from the dates of these speeches that we were either at war, or had just emerged from said war as victors! Churchill believed that a United Staes of Europe should be lead by Great Britain! At no time did he ever think that we would be lead by the nose by our former adversaries! He also said, "If the choice is Europe, or the sea, we should always choose the sea"! Excellent! The last two and a half years have demonstrated the UK's leadership skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Stating the obvious but election results normally last five years. You were implying Brexit should persist for at least a generation? We were in the EU for two generations....! 7 hours ago, Retsdon said: Go and ask the Swiss about that. They're locked in never ending negotiation with the EU. And that's one of the points that the hardliners never seem able to grasp. No matter what happens in March, the UK will not be 'free of' the EU. It won't be the end, it will get the start. We'll just be at the start of an extremely long and tortuous journey of negotiation with a bigger and stronger neighbour who by dint of it's geographic location and power we will be forced into accomodating time and time again - because unfortunately that's just how the real world works. There are going to be a lot of very, very disillusioned people about. The EU is crumbling as we speak. Germany sliding into recession, France virtually there, Italy in, and the rest mostly basket cases! The world has moved on since 1971, the new powerhouse economies are India, Brazil, China etc etc...that,s where our future lies, along with the English speaking world. For all our problems over the last 30 months, the £ is still strong against the Euro,,,,,,,,our economy is growing twice as fast as the EU,s.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 20 minutes ago, pinfireman said: This is what we democrats have been up against since the day after we WON the Referendum.......... Fresh from publishing their mad new diet calling for people to eat only one-tenth of a sausage and a quarter of an egg a day – which naturally turned out to be authored by people who didn’t follow the diet themselves and funded by a globe-trotting billionaire with a private jet – once-esteemed medical journal The Lancet has done it again with a new Brexit scare paper this week. It just so happens that almost every author is either a diehard Remain campaigner or has extensive professional links with the EU… The lead author is Nick Fahy, now a researcher at Oxford but who previously worked for over a decade in the European Commission. Naturally… Next is Tamara Hervey, an EU-funded Jean Monnet Professor of European Law who amusingly describes herself as living in “Sheffield, Europe” on Twitter. Don’t tell her Sheffield voted to Leave… David Stuckler is a committed anti-Austerity campaigner who authored a book subtitled “Why Austerity Kills” and has even blamed the rise of the Nazis on austerity. Cuckoo… Mike Galsworthy will be familiar to most people as one of the prolific and obnoxious Remainiacs on Twitter, he is effectively a full-time commentator and campaigner and has founded Scientists for EU, Healthier IN the EU, Scientists for Labour and NHS Against Brexit. Literally the last person you would go to if you wanted a balanced and impartial view on Brexit… Martin McKee is another full-on Remainiac, his Twitter account is festoonedwith #FBPE and a giant low-res EU flag. McKee is also a member of the European Commission’s ‘Expert Panel on Investing in Health’ and until recently was President of the EU-funded European Public Health Association. He co-founded Healthier IN the EU with Galsworthy, and to top it off was also a co-author on Stuckler’s paper blaming the Nazis on austerity. Full house! Naturally this hasn’t stopped the media and smug Remainers like Peston from seizing upon the report like it is gospel truth. It might as well have been a European Commission press release… Somehow Raja, I doubt that..... lemme ask again, doubt what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 6 hours ago, toxo said: That was when they thought they were untouchable. If they know a few million of us are going to throw them off the gravy train it'll be different. True! On here it,s pub talk...by taking action, in any form, we have them worried. 6 hours ago, Rewulf said: Im not being funny , but if they havnt worked that out already, they need to go back to school. If we dont leave, or get a BRINO , everyone who voted leave is going to be somewhat annoyed, and will think about casting their vote outside of the mainstream parties. It happened in Italy, and in other countries, far right and anti establishment parties are on the rise, populism isnt a dirty word, neither is nationalism, but you could be forgiven for thinking it , listening to some politicos and lefty media. They will reap what they sow, and what they are sowing right now, is anger. True! 3 hours ago, Scully said: You give them more credit than they are due; it takes a bit more than that. I wish that was so, but I fear it is not. 5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: lemme ask again, doubt what? Ordinary bloke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Total garbage! His statements over immigration have proved to be true! . The EU Commission (who really rule the EU) are UNELECTED! UK law has been subsumed under EU law.. as for Remainers being called Remoaners, that is ALL you have done since the day after the Referendum! Not a day goes by without Remoaners whinging! In a democracy, they should have accepted the result! We did in 1975. That was not bemoaning...that was complaining that the vote by the People had been overturned by a bunch of greedy troughers in Parliament. A bunch of hypocrites. Corbyn, anti-EU for 40 years, suddenly has a Road to Damascus moment! Yeah, right! Bercow overrides the Constitution... So you ask for examples which you dismiss as garbage then spout mostly ill truths or at best gloss over the details (and the devil really is in the detail for the majority of the points here) which is the classic populist approach as per Trump, Farage and co... I'm not defending politicians. "That was not bemoaning.. that was complaining" err, ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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