Brexit - merged threads

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

Like the post where you said that JRM was "Far or extreme" right (cant remember exactly which you used?) I did quote, as did many others quote, your post when you tried to deny it, but you conveniently chose to ignore these posts and did not respond.

So in your view, hence your response, I have a substantive argument? Which part? You not being able to make your mind up, you being a Troll, working for PW, working for the EU or contradicting yourself?

To be clear. JRM's view of Brexit is an extreme view point at the margins of where the rest of parliament are. Far right yes, with regard to his authoritarian view point and ultra conservative views of the way that society should be managed. 

[silver pigeon69]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

To be clear. JRM's view of Brexit is an extreme view point at the margins of where the rest of parliament are. Far right yes, with regard to his authoritarian view point and ultra conservative views of the way that society should be managed. 

But thats not what you said in the original post and you know it! You are trying to back peddle once again by saying that his view of Brexit is extreme right.

You also seem to have conveniently ignored my question in the second paragraph.

Edited April 21, 2019 by silver pigeon69

[oowee]

Just now, silver pigeon69 said:

But thats not what you said in the original post and you know it! You are trying to back peddle once again by saying that his view of Brexit is extreme right.

It's pretty clear to me. I can't make it any clearer. 🤣

To be clear. JRM's view of Brexit is an extreme view point at the margins of where the rest of parliament are. Far right yes, with regard to his authoritarian view point and ultra conservative views of the way that society should be managed. 

 

[silver pigeon69]

On 14/03/2019 at 11:37, oowee said:

Some Tories have a conflict since their constituency voted to stay and MP is pushing his own (JRM) bizarre far right agenda. The distant runner up here is Lib Dem.

Here I have found it for you (again!) Doesn't quite sound like what your saying now does it!

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's pretty clear to me. I can't make it any clearer. 🤣

To be clear. JRM's view of Brexit is an extreme view point at the margins of where the rest of parliament are. Far right yes, with regard to his authoritarian view point and ultra conservative views of the way that society should be managed. 

 

 

Yes it is pretty clear! 

That your back peddling from the original post

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

Here I have found it for you (again!) Doesn't quite sound like what your saying now does it!

It does sound like the far right issue that you raised earlier. I am guessing?

He is pushing his own bizarre far right agenda. Regardless of the voting of his constituents. If you disagree say why. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by oowee
corrected to say it does

[silver pigeon69]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

It does not sound like the far right issue that you raised earlier no. I am guessing that this is another point you are raising.

He is pushing his own bizarre far right agenda. Regardless of the voting of his constituents. If you disagree say why. 

So if your saying he's pushing a far right agenda, you are saying he is far right. As i stated earlier, not the "JRM's view of Brexit is an extreme view point at the margins of where the rest of parliament are" that you quoted.

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

It does not sound like the far right issue that you raised earlier no. I am guessing that this is another point you are raising.

He is pushing his own bizarre far right agenda. Regardless of the voting of his constituents. If you disagree say why. 

So being a leaver or pro Brexit is far right?

[oowee]

We are going around in circles.

Yes. He is pushing a far right agenda. Yes he is far right in his views. Yes his view of Brexit is extreme. 

If you think otherwise spell it out if not ....

[silver pigeon69]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

We are going around in circles.

Yes. He is pushing a far right agenda. Yes he is far right in his views. Yes his view of Brexit is extreme. 

If you think otherwise spell it out if not ....

Your the one going round in circles, trying to back track and cover yourself.

Why do you imply  he is pushing a "Far right" agenda?

Is believing in Brexit far right?

Do you think he is far right because he believes in Brexit?

[oowee]

His view of Brexit is at the far right of parliament. Out at any cost without a deal is not what the majority of the country wants or what the majority of parliament think is good for the country. That makes his a far right agenda. I do not know why he is pushing a far right agenda. I suspect it is because he has less liberal views on other matters. 

I am not sure what type of Brexit you are asking about as to if it is far right. Without spending much time on thinking it through try this;--

If closer political Union is to the left of the spectrum of views, remain is in the middle left, Leaving the EU (political institution) brexit right of middle, brexit with just a customs union a shade further right, out with no deal even more right, out regardless further right, out with no deal and complete free trade arrangements is extreme far right view of Brexit.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 hours ago, oowee said:

His view of Brexit is at the far right of parliament. Out at any cost without a deal is not what the majority of the country wants or what the majority of parliament think is good for the country. That makes his a far right agenda. I do not know why he is pushing a far right agenda. I suspect it is because he has less liberal views on other matters. 

I am not sure what type of Brexit you are asking about as to if it is far right. Without spending much time on thinking it through try this;--

If closer political Union is to the left of the spectrum of views, remain is in the middle left, Leaving the EU (political institution) brexit right of middle, brexit with just a customs union a shade further right, out with no deal even more right, out regardless further right, out with no deal and complete free trade arrangements is extreme far right view of Brexit.

 

Quite happy with any of the right options, let's just get OUT!

[dead eye alan]

24 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Quite happy with any of the right options, let's just get OUT!

 Yes indeed, totally fed up with the westminster bunch of clowns, useless ***** the lot of em. 🤬  

[oowee]

49 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Quite happy with any of the right options, let's just get OUT!

 

22 minutes ago, dead eye alan said:

 Yes indeed, totally fed up with the westminster bunch of clowns, useless ***** the lot of em. 🤬  

So whats happening now is it just easter hols? It's gone very quiet. 

[JohnfromUK]

36 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

So whats happening now is it just easter hols? It's gone very quiet. 

You would think that since they are so far behind schedule - they would shorten the Easter holiday (Easter recess) to the bare minimum and get on with the job in hand. 

When I was in private industry working for small UK businesses, if we were behind with customer deliveries we were expected to work weekends and bank holidays to catch up.  You would have had Easter Sunday 'off', but the works would have been open and working all other days.  There wasn't a '3 line whip', but it was made very clear to us that delivering late was not going to win us business and market share leading to a good sound business.  It worked and the business prospered, customer satisfaction was good, and generally people were happy and felt rewarded for their efforts.  I worked for 3 smaller UK companies - and that applied in every case.

Later, working for a large 'multinational' much of the 'work ethic' was diluted as the personal touch from management was lost and customer focus was lost.

I think there are analogies between company managements and both UK and EU 'Governments/Commissions'.

Edited April 22, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Big difference is that you are an HONOURABLE man, MPs are NOT!!!!!!!

[Gordon R]

Quote

Out at any cost without a deal is not what the majority of the country wants

I must have missed that referendum. How can you make such a silly, sweeping statement?

Out means out.

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

You would think that since they are so far behind schedule - they would shorten the Easter holiday (Easter recess) to the bare minimum and get on with the job in hand. 

When I was in private industry working for small UK businesses, if we were behind with customer deliveries we were expected to work weekends and bank holidays to catch up.  You would have had Easter Sunday 'off', but the works would have been open and working all other days.  There wasn't a '3 line whip', but it was made very clear to us that delivering late was not going to win us business and market share leading to a good sound business.  It worked and the business prospered, customer satisfaction was good, and generally people were happy and felt rewarded for their efforts.  I worked for 3 smaller UK companies - and that applied in every case.

Later, working for a large 'multinational' much of the 'work ethic' was diluted as the personal touch from management was lost and customer focus was lost.

I think there are analogies between company managements and both UK and EU 'Governments/Commissions'.

My wifes PLC expects at least an ounce of flesh but its also reflected in bonuses. A few months back, on a friday afternoon, she was told the targets this year are unreasonable so they require unreasonable levels of effort. We want you in a meeting in Spain on Monday morning. Unfortunately the meeting was for a hundred or so staff and trying to get flights at short notice was a nightmare. It took her most of Sunday to get there. 

It was the same when I was in the civil service but without a bonus. 

 

2 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I must have missed that referendum. How can you make such a silly, sweeping statement?

Out means out.

How can you make such a silly, sweeping statement?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

here we go again!

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

My wifes PLC expects at least an ounce of flesh but its also reflected in bonuses.

And in my 45 years in private industry, I would suggest that is typical, and most people respect it and actually quite like it.  I enjoyed the challenge of making a small company successful (and didn't like big company 'lethargy and lack of dynamism and flexibility').

In my view MPs are getting the rewards (well above average salary, very generous expenses/subsidies, lots of time off, excellent pensions, possibilities of 'honours' far above the non MP/political animal etc).  But they aren't either putting in the work needed - or achieving the results to justify it.

Edited April 22, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

here we go again!

 No said my piece on that one. Was just responding to my troll. 

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

And in my 45 years in private industry, I would suggest that is typical, and most people respect it and actually quite like it.  I enjoyed the challenge of making a small company successful (and didn't like big company 'lethargy and lack of dynamism and flexibility').

In my view MPs are getting the rewards (well above average salary, very generous expenses/subsidies, lots of time off, excellent pensions, possibilities of 'honours' far above the non MP/political animal etc).  But they aren't either putting in the work needed - or achieving the results to justify it.

I can see where you are coming from but there are many that work all the hours and the results are not always that obvious. Thankless job either way and I wouldn't do it. 

[Gordon R]

oowee - it would be nice to think you were someone of intelligence, rather than a mere troll, but it doesn't seem likely. Silver Pigeon69 has got your mark.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Thankless job either way and I wouldn't do it. 

Nor would I, but they choose to do it - it isn't something you just drop into by default.  I don't agree it is thankless either; for those who do well and become respected - it isn't thankless.

In most jobs - you only get the thanks if you are pulling your weight and achieving the results.  Makes sense to me.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

Nor would I, but they choose to do it - it isn't something you just drop into by default.  I don't agree it is thankless either; for those who do well and become respected - it isn't thankless.

In most jobs - you only get the thanks if you are pulling your weight and achieving the results.  Makes sense to me.

You can please some of the people some of the time but you cant please all of the people all of the time. Add to that, for most MP's, 60 % of your constituency probably did not vote for you. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, oowee said:

Add to that, for most MP's, 60 % of your constituency probably did not vote for you.

In business, only one or two of your colleagues select you ........ but you get on and make the role for which you have been selected your own - and that in itself commands respect and for a good many people they are missed when the leave/retire.  I don't think they have a bad lot at all.  It isn't one I would choose, but they all did choose it - so they should b....y well get on and make a success of it.

[Newbie to this]

By oowee's logic of JRM being extremist right wing with his views on Brexit, then every remainer has an extremist left wing view. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Newbie to this

[12gauge82]

No matter which way anyone twist their words, if your in a club and you choose to either remain or leave, its a very simple choice. 

There are only two mechanisms that deliver on the referendum result,

1. A free trade deal (the EU have totally ruled this out) 

2. WTO brexit (aka hard brexit) 

Anything else is subverting democracy and those in power know it, those suggesting otherwise is either joining in or very very silly.