Brexit - merged threads

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Worth a watch.

Cant argue with any of that.

Remain crew , over to you 😐

[oowee]

17 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Worth a watch.

 

It's an interesting post which i think was posted on here a short while ago. It's a good example of the internal pressure to change the EU from within, that many seem to deny exists. 

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's an interesting post which i think was posted on here a short while ago. It's a good example of the internal pressure to change the EU from within, that many seem to deny exists. 

I dont think anyone denies they exist, but when the AfD are described by the MSN and even the EU itself as an extreme right wing party, many tend not to listen to what they have to say.

Backed up by the pathological fear of any right wing party in Germany getting into a governmental position, its all very easy to dismiss virtually ANYTHING AfD  has to say as being 'nationalistic' with those poisonous connotations of fascism, so are largely ignored.

In context though, like I said, hard to argue with.

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's an interesting post which i think was posted on here a short while ago. It's a good example of the internal pressure to change the EU from within, that many seem to deny exists. 

I don't think I've denied it exists, only stated its ineffectiveness caused by apathy/indifference from those in power, to change. 

[Retsdon]

7 hours ago, Scully said:

I don't think I've denied it exists, only stated its ineffectiveness caused by apathy/indifference from those in power, to change. 

Like anything else the EU will either evolve or die. Many people on this thread believe or hope that it'll die, but in a world where the power and scope of regional trade blocs increases annually, while people might grizzle, there's no appetite at all in Europe for its demise. Look how much pain Greece went through to stay in as an example. My guess is that over the next decade the EU will be forced to make compromises to accommodate regional concerns, particularly concerns of internal migration. And most of the pressure will come from the eastern countries, whose economies and societies are suffering badly from losing so many of their brightest and best to the west. It might take some time, but a way forward will be found somehow.

In that respect, in the future Britain's decision to leave could well turn out to be on a par with Gordon Brown's decision to flog off the country's gold reserves at rock bottom just as gold turned the corner. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Retsdon

[Rewulf]

6 hours ago, Retsdon said:

there's no appetite at all in Europe for its demise. Look how much pain Greece went through to stay in as an example

You are having a laugh aren't you? 

[Scully]

8 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Like anything else the EU will either evolve or die. Many people on this thread believe or hope that it'll die, but in a world where the power and scope of regional trade blocs increases annually, while people might grizzle, there's no appetite at all in Europe for its demise. Look how much pain Greece went through to stay in as an example. My guess is that over the next decade the EU will be forced to make compromises to accommodate regional concerns, particularly concerns of internal migration. And most of the pressure will come from the eastern countries, whose economies and societies are suffering badly from losing so many of their brightest and best to the west. It might take some time, but a way forward will be found somehow.

In that respect, in the future Britain's decision to leave could well turn out to be on a par with Gordon Brown's decision to flog off the country's gold reserves at rock bottom just as gold turned the corner. 

I can’t agree with any of that I’m afraid....the EU doesn’t do ‘compromise’. 😂

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

I can’t agree with any of that I’m afraid....the EU doesn’t do ‘compromise’. 😂

Of course it doesnt, why would it , its not answerable to anyone ?

The talking heads are today talking about Brussels calling Bojos bluff, is it a game ?
Do the livelihoods and futures of millions of EU  citizens rest on the judgment of whether its a 'bluff' or not ?
Beggars belief really, but like I say , what have THEY got to lose ?

8 hours ago, Retsdon said:

while people might grizzle, there's no appetite at all in Europe for its demise.

Those who 'grizzle' elected Eurosceptic parties in Hungary, Italy, Austria.
A good third of the EU parliament is Eurosceptic, how do you think they got there ?
The UK voted to leave and now has a Eurosceptic government.
But you say theres no appetite for its demise ? We have just finished our starters, and the main course looks delicious 

 

16 minutes ago, Scully said:

Look how much pain Greece went through to stay in as an example

Say what ?
Greece didnt want to stay in !
It voted by 61 % overall to reject further bailouts and forced austerity from the EU , Every region voted to reject it !
Yet its anti austerity government completely ignored the vote and forced it through parliament , sound familiar ?
Its debts and austerity are projected to continue till 2060, youth unemployment at 44 % and pensions cut by a third.

Yeah Greece loves the EU 😆

65 % of Greeks want out, but will their government even give them a vote ? Of course not, because they are corrupt to the core, and in Brussels pocket.
Thats the kind of organisation youre dealing with, make no mistake.

Reform ? Hilarious !

[Gordon R]

Are we to wish the EU well? Considering the way they have treated us since the Referendum, I think many would gloat if they sank without a trace. That said, it would be better and fairer if both the EU and UK prospered as friends and trading partners.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

it would be better and fairer if both the EU and UK prospered as friends and trading partners.

It definitely would ..... but the way the EU behaves, they may well turn 'sour' and want to make things as difficult as possible - even though it will hurt their people as well as us.

[ditchman]

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It definitely would ..... but the way the EU behaves, they may well turn 'sour' and want to make things as difficult as possible - even though it will hurt their people as well as us.

the politicans would turn sour..they will feel slighted and insulted........the people will remain sensible and would wish to prosper on both sides of the channel..........politicans are and always will be the trouble makers

[Smokersmith]

 

I thing we'll end up in a General Election that will be effectively another 'go or stay' vote.

[Scully]

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Of course it doesnt, why would it , its not answerable to anyone ?

The talking heads are today talking about Brussels calling Bojos bluff, is it a game ?
Do the livelihoods and futures of millions of EU  citizens rest on the judgment of whether its a 'bluff' or not ?
Beggars belief really, but like I say , what have THEY got to lose ?

Those who 'grizzle' elected Eurosceptic parties in Hungary, Italy, Austria.
A good third of the EU parliament is Eurosceptic, how do you think they got there ?
The UK voted to leave and now has a Eurosceptic government.
But you say theres no appetite for its demise ? We have just finished our starters, and the main course looks delicious 

 

Say what ?
Greece didnt want to stay in !
It voted by 61 % overall to reject further bailouts and forced austerity from the EU , Every region voted to reject it !
Yet its anti austerity government completely ignored the vote and forced it through parliament , sound familiar ?
Its debts and austerity are projected to continue till 2060, youth unemployment at 44 % and pensions cut by a third.

Yeah Greece loves the EU 😆

65 % of Greeks want out, but will their government even give them a vote ? Of course not, because they are corrupt to the core, and in Brussels pocket.
Thats the kind of organisation youre dealing with, make no mistake.

Reform ? Hilarious !

I think you’ve misquoted me there; it was Retsdon who said ‘look how much trouble Greece went through to stay in......’

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Scully said:

I think you’ve misquoted me there; it was Retsdon who said ‘look how much trouble Greece went through to stay in......’

Sorry mate yes I did, yes Retsdons quote. 

 

1 hour ago, Smokersmith said:

I thing we'll end up in a General Election that will be effectively another 'go or stay' vote.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-absolutely-rules-out-an-election-or-a-second-referendum-as-he-says-the-people-want-a4199401.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0_pq2A0GtxRwbiBA2iL__TJxB6TjwL2QFysqWGK2buefG3QNEmpEVp9Dg#Echobox=1564167564

Maybe not.

And as both the leader of the greens and lib dumbs professed to the nation the other day, they will scream and shout for a 'peoples vote' to be held, but if it doesnt go their way this time, they most certainly wont respect it !
What can you say to that ?!

They dont want a final say. or a peoples vote, they want any ideas of Brexit consigned to the bin, because being a member of an unelected  dictatorship , is THEIR idea of democracy 😂

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Sorry mate yes I did, yes Retsdons quote. 

 

No problem. 👍

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Considering the way they have treated us since the Referendum,

What are you talking about?

1) It was the UK that decided to leave the EU, not the other way around.

2) It was the UK that said that it wanted to exit the Single Market, nobody forced us out.

This whining about how the UK is not responsible for its own actions is pathetic. What is it that you want the EU do do? Grant  the UK unlimited access to the Single Market without being subject to the regulatory system that underpins it?  How is that supposed to work? It can't be done, even with the best will in the world.

The UK is not a victim. The country made a decision and it was the wrong one.  Man up and live with the consequences.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

What are you talking about?

1) It was the UK that decided to leave the EU, not the other way around.

2) It was the UK that said that it wanted to exit the Single Market, nobody forced us out.

This whining about how the UK is not responsible for its own actions is pathetic. What is it that you want the EU do do? Grant  the UK unlimited access to the Single Market without being subject to the regulatory system that underpins it?  How is that supposed to work? It can't be done, even with the best will in the world.

The UK is not a victim. The country made a decision and it was the wrong one.  Man up and live with the consequences.

Not quite correct! The Country voted to leave in an unprecedented referendum, since then everything possible has been done to thwart the situation, now with Boris in charge there is at least some hope.

[Retsdon]

7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

he Country voted to leave in an unprecedented referendum, since then everything possible has been done to thwart the situation,

Not really. The truth is that nobody has been able to work out how  - after 40 years of integration - to pull the entwined legal and commercial sinews apart without actually killing or permanently maiming the patient. But never mind, Boris is about to perform the op.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Retsdon

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

1) It was the UK that decided to leave the EU, not the other way around.

Well yes we did , is that OK ?
You know, thats an interesting point about the second bit, how far would you have to go before the EU kicked you out the bloc ?
How any warnings , sanctions and fines before they said enoughs enough, youre out !
Is there even a mechanism for it, an article 101 ?

 

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

2) It was the UK that said that it wanted to exit the Single Market, nobody forced us out.

Actually , you cant have single market access without being mostly 'IN'
I think most would agree , if we could have single market access, as a stand alone thing, even at a financial cost, you would get overwhelming support there.
But you cant, even if it makes money for them, because...EU.

 

12 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

This whining about how the UK is not responsible for its own actions is pathetic.

No ones whining except remoaners, because they didnt get what they wanted, and now a proper Brexit is a real possibility, the moaning gets louder, thats pathetic.

5 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

to pull the entwined legal and commercial sinews apart without actually killing or permanently maiming the patient.

The UK and EU are like Siamese twins though , you hurt one , you hurt both.

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Well yes we did , is that OK ?
You know, thats an interesting point about the second bit, how far would you have to go before the EU kicked you out the bloc ?
How any warnings , sanctions and fines before they said enoughs enough, youre out !
Is there even a mechanism for it, an article 101 ?

You start putting people against walls and shooting them?

[Smokersmith]

45 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Sorry mate yes I did, yes Retsdons quote. 

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-absolutely-rules-out-an-election-or-a-second-referendum-as-he-says-the-people-want-a4199401.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0_pq2A0GtxRwbiBA2iL__TJxB6TjwL2QFysqWGK2buefG3QNEmpEVp9Dg#Echobox=1564167564

Maybe not.

And as both the leader of the greens and lib dumbs professed to the nation the other day, they will scream and shout for a 'peoples vote' to be held, but if it doesnt go their way this time, they most certainly wont respect it !
What can you say to that ?!

They dont want a final say. or a peoples vote, they want any ideas of Brexit consigned to the bin, because being a member of an unelected  dictatorship , is THEIR idea of democracy 😂

So what does Boris do when Parliament stops a 'no deal' exit ?

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

So what does Boris do when Parliament stops a 'no deal' exit ?

Prorogues Parliament? He’ll have to do something otherwise the Tories are finished, with Farage waiting in the wings. 🙂

Edited July 30, 2019 by Scully

[Rewulf]

Just now, Smokersmith said:

So what does Boris do when Parliament stops a 'no deal' exit ?

I dont believe this is legally possible.
If parliament votes to change the law, its a long process, thats the only way to revoke A50, and most now admit it couldnt be pushed through in time, without an extension , which Boris isnt going to ask for.
A vote of no confidence , or a GE are other options, but dont guarantee success.

Put it this way , if the default no deal position could be permanently removed easily , it already would have been.

8 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

You start putting people against walls and shooting them?

What like they do to French kids for protesting (or at least make them think it )

 

[sportsbob]

6 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

So what does Boris do when Parliament stops a 'no deal' exit ?

Would the legal stance that no deal is the default need to be changed before that could happen ? and if that is so then surly that is undemocratic and there would be all sorts to answer to.

[pinfireman]

Boris has finally had his much-anticipated first phone call with Leo Varadkar, it wasn’t just for a catch-up about the cricket. Boris repeated his core position that the UK will be leaving on October 31 “no matter what”, and the UK will be quite happy to negotiate a deal with the EU but the backstop must be abolished. Boris also reiterated that the UK will never put physical checks or infrastructure on the border. The two leaders “agreed to stay in contact”, Boris even got an invitation to Dublin…

Irish public opinion is already beginning to turn against Varadkar’s aggressive approach, the Irish Government has repeatedly clarified that it won’t be putting up border checks either even in the event of no deal. Varadkar increasingly needs a way down off the ledge constructed by Robbins, Barnier and Coveney…

Source ()  Guido Fawkes