pinfireman Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Just to put the record straight on who said what about what would happen if we voted Leave............. The latest mendacious line to come from the hard Remain camp is that “nobody was told that voting Leave could lead to no deal”, with Philip Hammond going into overdrive this morning and claiming it is a “total travesty of the truth”. The problem is, as usual, it’s the Remainer line that is a “total travesty of the truth”. Change Britain have looked at what Remainer politicians actually said and, surprise surprise, everyone from David Cameron and George Osborne to Dominic Grieve and Hilary Benn repeatedly warned voters that voting Leave would lead to Britain leaving the EU after two years, deal or no deal. Along with a certain Rt Hon. Philip Hammond M.P. at the Despatch Box in the House of Commons… Source: Guido Fawkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinaryB Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 What a useless article he has been. Utterly useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Former Chancellor and perennial Brexit Eeyore Philip Hammond has taken to the airwaves today to warn of the supposedly dire consequences of a clean break from the EU. This is despite him being elected on a manifesto that promised the UK would leave with No Deal if the only alternative was a bad deal. Which, currently, it is. On Today this morning, Hammond bizarrely doubled down on the notion that he had spent time and money preparing for No Deal, despite the reason for his interview being a big intervention saying such preparation would be damaging and undemocratic. It’s okay when he does it but when it’s Michael Gove and Boris Johnson that’s beyond the pale… “We were already doing No Deal preparation… we spent £4.2 billion… a large part of it was preparation by the treasury to mitigate the impact on financial services.” So why does he have a problem with this Government doing the same thing he supposedly did..? Guido suspects that the reason for the disparity is that Hammond’s ‘preparation’ was purely cosmetic. Last week it was reported that a No Deal planning committee member had revealed that previously “the Treasury was blocking everything … whereas things are serious now and ten to 15 actions are agreed every day.” Hammond is only upset that now people are actually undertaking the work that he bragged about doing while actually undermining it… Downing Street sources have hit back hard saying the likes of the former Chancellor “never accepted the referendum result and they fought to overturn it.” Number 10 sources tells the FT that “Hammond and Clarke sabotaged the UK’s preparations to leave. Every day, officials tell us about decisions they took to stop us actually leaving” and The Times that “Everyone knows the ex-chancellor’s real objective was to cancel the referendum result.” Hammond himself is doing nothing to dampen that analysis, talking up a second referendum again this morning.0 “If we can’t resolve this issue in Parliament it will have to be resolved by either a General Election or a second referendum.” If anyone believes he actually respects the referendum result, Guido has a bridge to sell you… UPDATE: Guido asked team Hammond if there was any truth to the widely circulating story that the then Chancellor told the Irish that the British Government would never support No Deal during the negotiations that followed the defeat of the first meaningful vote last year. They refused to comment on it… 1 minute ago, BinaryB said: What a useless article he has been. Utterly useless. True! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Downing Street sources have hit back hard saying the likes of the former Chancellor “never accepted the referendum result and they fought to overturn it.” Number 10 sources tells the FT that “Hammond and Clarke sabotaged the UK’s preparations to leave. Every day, officials tell us about decisions they took to stop us actually leaving” and The Times that “Everyone knows the ex-chancellor’s real objective was to cancel the referendum result.” Seems pretty close to my comment on the Phillip Hammond headed thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 i think Nancy Pelosi (leader house of rep's USA).............is waaaay out of order with her interferance and statement............ "There will be no trade deal, if the Irish backstop is removed".............quote unquote........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, ditchman said: i think Nancy Pelosi (leader house of rep's USA).............is waaaay out of order with her interferance and statement............ "There will be no trade deal, if the Irish backstop is removed".............quote unquote........ How is she out of order? As majority leader of Congress she has that power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Retsdon said: How is she out of order? As majority leader of Congress she has that power. you are quite right .....she does have that power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, Retsdon said: How is she out of order? As majority leader of Congress she has that power. No she doesnt, any more than Bercow can say there will be no trade deal with the US if he doesnt get something he wants. As house speaker , she doesnt get a veto on policy, not by any stretch ! But to clarify, what she actually said was here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/14/no-trade-deal-good-friday-agreement-undermined-top-us-democrat/ totally out of her powers that may be, WHO is undermining the good friday agreement ? The UK isnt , we have repeatedly said we wont put a hard border up, the EU and Ireland havnt given that assurance ! Maybe they wont get a trade deal either then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 3 hours ago, ditchman said: i think Nancy Pelosi (leader house of rep's USA).............is waaaay out of order with her interferance and statement............ "There will be no trade deal, if the Irish backstop is removed".............quote unquote........ It,s because she personally hates Trump! Nothing to do with the backstop, or Brexit, just personal hatred of Trump! She,s a Clinton pal.....says it all, doesn,t it? 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: No she doesnt, any more than Bercow can say there will be no trade deal with the US if he doesnt get something he wants. As house speaker , she doesnt get a veto on policy, not by any stretch ! But to clarify, what she actually said was here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/14/no-trade-deal-good-friday-agreement-undermined-top-us-democrat/ totally out of her powers that may be, WHO is undermining the good friday agreement ? The UK isnt , we have repeatedly said we wont put a hard border up, the EU and Ireland havnt given that assurance ! Maybe they wont get a trade deal either then ? Correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 20 hours ago, Rewulf said: If Brexiteers wanted to smash the country, why do they care so much about freeing it from the EU ? You cant have these nasty right wing patriots wanting sovereignty back , but also wanting to break the UK up too. It's not so much wanting to smash the country up but they (including you) appear so focussed on Brexit that they appear to accept the collapse of the union as collateral damage as long as their right to Brexit is served. Think about it, there are people on this forum who use Nigel Farage and Brexit Party images as their profile picture, what does that tell you about them... Err, patriots of what exactly? Bear in mind , that Scotland has elements that want to be out of the union, and are 'hell bent' on achieving this, long before the referendum was announced, they also appear to not 'give a hoot' about the union ? No argument there. Who has said that, Ive not read or heard that anywhere ? Most people , leavers , or remainers , want the thing sorted, and while you may not believe it, many remainers now have resigned themselves to the fact that we HAVE to leave, as revoking the 2016 vote would allow in a potentially unstable government. It's all over mainstream media, Phillip Hammond as an example. I agree that most right minded people wanted it sorted. Pure conjecture, if 1/3 definitely want a hard Brexit, what about the leavers who, while that not being their first choice , would accept it rather than remain ? As Ive constantly said on the matter, if public opinion was anywhere near 50 % on remaining, the machinery for a second stab at it would be winding up, with a probable catch of a 3 way vote. I dont believe there are the (remain) numbers there to do it, and now , there isnt a government whose going to allow it either. You've countered my conjecture with conjecture of your own! You have to accept, its not what the majority want, it wasnt in 2016, and it isnt now. More conjecture, you simply do not know that, yes it was what the majority voted for in 2016, well over 3 years ago. As much as you dont like the idea of leaving without a deal come witching hour, there really is no alternative. Oh yes there is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 So it was OK for Farage and co. to change their stories from 2016 but not the likes of Hammond and it's OK for Trump to chip in but not Pelosi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It's not so much wanting to smash the country up but they (including you) appear so focussed on Brexit that they appear to accept the collapse of the union as collateral damage as long as their right to Brexit is served. Think about it, there are people on this forum who use Nigel Farage and Brexit Party images as their profile picture, what does that tell you about them... Youve got that completely wrapped round your head , seriously ! My personal opinion on Scotland leaving the union is -If they vote for it in majority (which they didnt in 2104) let them go. Im not bothered either way. The only people using Brexit as an excuse to break the union up are Scottish nationalists, wanting INDEPENDENCE , but wanting to stay part of the EU ? Its absolutely hilarious ! And having the BP or Farage as an avatar is hardly hero worship , its called SUPPORT , for a cause I believe in, and when we leave, space cat will be back 😍 19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Err, patriots of what exactly? The comment was sarcastic, as is yours. 20 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: It's all over mainstream media, Phillip Hammond as an example Please 😄 22 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: You've countered my conjecture with conjecture of your own! So what ? ! If the numbers were there for remain, we would have had a second referendum, the first would have been ignored, and there would have been a lot of angry people. But it wouldnt matter, because there would be a MAJORITY supporting the decision , it might trigger a GE , but they wont do that either , because they cant guarantee the 'right ' result. Again , THEY DO NOT HAVE THE NUMBERS. So call it conjecture as much as you want, it hasnt happened for the above reason ! 28 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: More conjecture, you simply do not know that, yes it was what the majority voted for in 2016, well over 3 years ago. As above , think about it. 28 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Oh yes there is! Go on then , like what ? Another extension ? Go back and try again for a better deal ? Remain ? 😐 We need to negotiate from the other side of leaving, it is the ONLY way. You have the intelligence to see it, just remove your bias and think objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 21 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Youve got that completely wrapped round your head , seriously ! My personal opinion on Scotland leaving the union is -If they vote for it in majority (which they didnt in 2104) let them go. Im not bothered either way. The only people using Brexit as an excuse to break the union up are Scottish nationalists, wanting INDEPENDENCE , but wanting to stay part of the EU ? Its absolutely hilarious ! And having the BP or Farage as an avatar is hardly hero worship , its called SUPPORT , for a cause I believe in, and when we leave, space cat will be back 😍 The comment was sarcastic, as is yours. Please 😄 So what ? ! If the numbers were there for remain, we would have had a second referendum, the first would have been ignored, and there would have been a lot of angry people. But it wouldnt matter, because there would be a MAJORITY supporting the decision , it might trigger a GE , but they wont do that either , because they cant guarantee the 'right ' result. Again , THEY DO NOT HAVE THE NUMBERS. So call it conjecture as much as you want, it hasnt happened for the above reason ! As above , think about it. Go on then , like what ? Another extension ? Go back and try again for a better deal ? Remain ? 😐 We need to negotiate from the other side of leaving, it is the ONLY way. You have the intelligence to see it, just remove your bias and think objectively. Like you say absolutely hilarious. Just picking up on one point - how would they know whether or not the numbers were there? By the same logic if they could have known then they would not have allowed the original referendum in the first place. I appreciate the irony in your bias and objective thinking comments 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Just picking up on one point - how would they know whether or not the numbers were there? By the same logic if they could have known then they would not have allowed the original referendum in the first place. They got it wrong in 2016,they thought with the media and government backing it up, remain was a sure thing. They arent going to make that mistake again, another leave vote slams the door on it. Thats why for the most part, the 'peoples vote ' idea has been abandoned , unless of course they can fix the odds by making it a 3 way vote. But its all moot anyway, even the stupidest people now know its not about giving people a chance to change their mind, its about stopping Brexit and remaining. And the electorate isnt going to stand for it, because youve guessed it , thats not what the majority want. 19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: I appreciate the irony in your bias and objective thinking comments 😛 Whats ironic about it, is there a way to look at something objectively if youre biased ? Nice dodge on the question of alternatives BTW 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 39 minutes ago, Rewulf said: They got it wrong in 2016,they thought with the media and government backing it up, remain was a sure thing. They arent going to make that mistake again, another leave vote slams the door on it. Thats why for the most part, the 'peoples vote ' idea has been abandoned , unless of course they can fix the odds by making it a 3 way vote. But its all moot anyway, even the stupidest people now know its not about giving people a chance to change their mind, its about stopping Brexit and remaining. And the electorate isnt going to stand for it, because youve guessed it , thats not what the majority want. Whats ironic about it, is there a way to look at something objectively if youre biased ? Nice dodge on the question of alternatives BTW 😛 Pretty sure I'm less biased to remain than you are to leave. You already stated the main alternatives. Deep down I think you are also aware that Brexit is now less about doing what the people want / wanted and more about doing whatever is felt necessary to save the Tory party. The sad thing is we have Corbyn who is trying to gain political advantage in his attempts to stop Brexit, which is most likely the primary reason he will fail. It actually might be the other way round even, stopping Brexit to gain political advantage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Pretty sure I'm less biased to remain than you are to leave. You already stated the main alternatives. We would have to spend the night together before you could judge how biased I am on the matter 7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Deep down I think you are also aware that Brexit is now less about doing what the people want / wanted and more about doing whatever is felt necessary to save the Tory party. No, no , no , its always been about doing what the people want, and I should imagine 99 % of the population couldnt give a monkeys cuss about the tory party. Without the support of the people (in majority) you have nothing. 10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: The sad thing is we have Corbyn who is trying to gain political advantage in his attempts to stop Brexit, which is most likely the primary reason he will fail. It actually might be the other way round even, stopping Brexit to gain political advantage... The sad thing about Corbyn , is he is inept, with an inept shadow cabinet, with redundant policies. Labour are a spent force in this country. But the biggest obstacle for him in trying to gain mileage from this, is because in his heart , he hates the EU. If there was a coherent opposition, they would probably not be in opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 Bring back KW...........he would have loved the threads on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: No, no , no , its always been about doing what the people want, and I should imagine 99 % of the population couldnt give a monkeys cuss about the tory party. Without the support of the people (in majority) you have nothing. Agreed on the population not caring about the Tory party but the Tories membership do. Again, nobody knows who does and who does not have the support of the people. The sad thing about Corbyn , is he is inept, with an inept shadow cabinet, with redundant policies. Labour are a spent force in this country. But the biggest obstacle for him in trying to gain mileage from this, is because in his heart , he hates the EU. If there was a coherent opposition, they would probably not be in opposition. Agreed 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) Quote Bring back KW...........he would have loved the threads on here I suspect there would be a few bruised egos.🤣 Edited August 15, 2019 by Gordon R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: I suspect there would be a few bruised egos.🤣 more than a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 The EU’s trade relations with South-East Asian powerhouse Indonesia have come under renewed strain with Indonesia preparing to slap a 20-25% tariff on dairy products from the EU in response to the EU whacking 8-18% tariffs on Indonesian biodiesel. How dair-EU! Indonesia’s population of 260 million is over half the size of the entire EU, it’s currently the 16th largest economy in the world and growing at a pacey 5% a year. Indonesia’s trade minister is so cheesed off he’s ordered dairy importers to find new suppliers outside the EU. Indonesia is the fifth largest non-EU importer of dairy products in the world so this is no trifling matter. After Liz Truss’s big cheese push at DEFRA, it just so happens that the UK will in a matter of weeks be the third largest non-EU exporter of dairy products in the world, and is about to regain control of its own tariff schedules, putting it in pole position to cream off the the EU’s market share. Brits get cheap biodiesel and textiles, while Indonesians will get top-quality Cheddar, Stilton, Yarg, Brie, Wensleydale and clotted cream. Perfect! While Civil Servants have been dragging their feet when it comes to Brexit, the Foreign Office has notoriously been the worst when it comes to accepting the result of the referendum. However, it appears that with Boris Johnson now in Downing Street and Dominic Raab in charge the penny has finally dropped at the FCO that Britain is leaving the EU on October 31. The foreign office’s mandarins realise that after 46 years they will once again be able to unilaterally decide Britain’s trade policy. In preparation the department is now procuring £500,000 of training in ‘Advanced Trade Policy’. Better late than never… The winner of the contract will need to “Design and deliver a bespoke, class-room based, Advanced Trade Policy (ATP) training programme” in order to “to ensure civil servants improve their trade policy expertise” and will endure for two years following its award. Unsurprisingly, the FCO has confirmed the contract is not being financed by EU funds… There is no such thing as "EU Funds"................it,s OUR MONEY! Source: Guido Fawkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) Is it UK dairy going to Malaysia now? Edited August 16, 2019 by oowee spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) Regarding break up of the union - if we're going be subservient to Brussels what's the point of being in our own union. EDIT: Am I the only one who thinks - further down the line as it melds together - its downright pathetic to believe we could retain a United Kingdom in a United States of Europe? Edited August 15, 2019 by Dave-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 Downright pathetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) I read that DEFRA have taken the unusual step of issuing a press release/blog advising that an article published today in both the Guardian and the Independent newspapers claiming as many as 50% of UK farmers will go bust as a result of a no deal Brexit, is total scaremongering bull ****!............well from those two rags, that's hardly anything new!.... they are in the same category (but not as believable) as the old Sunday Sport! Edited August 16, 2019 by panoma1 Spelling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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