Brexit - merged threads

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

More than a few of us are following in the same footsteps with assets. 

Is it a bit like anti Trumpers saying they're going to leave the US but never do? 

Or more like, 'I've bought a French/Spanish holiday home, but I'll say I'm quitting the UK so I can blame it on Brexit' type of thing? 

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

😂 Bye then. 😃👍

And, if you don't let me have what I want, I shall sqweam and sqweam and sqweam, and then I'm leaving... FOREVER! 🤣

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

And, if you don't let me have what I want, I shall sqweam and sqweam and sqweam, and then I'm leaving... FOREVER! 🤣

Yeah....'til he needs a new hip. 😉

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Is it a bit like anti Trumpers saying they're going to leave the US but never do? 

Or more like, 'I've bought a French/Spanish holiday home, but I'll say I'm quitting the UK so I can blame it on Brexit' type of thing? 

And, if you don't let me have what I want, I shall sqweam and sqweam and sqweam, and then I'm leaving... FOREVER! 🤣

The home thing is not so easy as passport rights look more than a little risky. It's much easier to hedge against the downside 🙂 

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

Yeah....'til he needs a new hip. 😉

Hopefully those who need one on the NHS will have insurance to cover it when the NHS can't afford it. 

[Scully]

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

Hopefully those who need one on the NHS will have insurance to cover it when the NHS can't afford it. 

Yes....hopefully. 🙂

[Jaymo]

31 minutes ago, Scully said:

Yeah....'til he needs a new hip. 😉

Why not, if he has paid into the system and is still eligible once/when/if BREXiT happens

Just like the Double tax treaty that currently exists, the S1 Social care/ Healthcare scheme might continue as it may be seen as a separate item- then he will be able to claim for his hip in France instead with his ‘mutual’ tipping up, and adding to the benefits.

Mentioned it before having had experience of French Healthcare, know where I would prefer to have a hip replaced, thats with me currently enjoying Uk Private med care.

Because someone’s ideals don’t align with others beliefs, why should someone be belittled- I work abroad and the the term ‘Island mentality’ crops up with alarming regularity, it’s as though we wake up and chant “mirror mirror on the wall” and believe the answer given 🙂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

12 minutes ago, oowee said:

The home thing is not so easy as passport rights look more than a little risky. It's much easier to hedge against the downside 🙂 

Hopefully those who need one on the NHS will have insurance to cover it when the NHS can't afford it. 

Hopefully with less people on the waiting list it might be a bit easier, especially if it it is only those who should be on the list.

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Why not, if he has paid into the system and is still eligible once/when/if BREXiT happens

Just like the Double tax treaty that currently exists, the S1 Social care/ Healthcare scheme might continue as it may be seen as a separate item- then he will be able to claim for his hip in France instead with his ‘mutual’ tipping up, and adding to the benefits.

Mentioned it before having had experience of French Healthcare, know where I would prefer to have a hip replaced, thats with me currently enjoying Uk Private med care.

Because someone’s ideals don’t align with others beliefs, why should someone be belittled- I work abroad and the the term ‘Island mentality’ crops up with alarming regularity, it’s as though we wake up and chant “mirror mirror on the wall” and believe the answer given 🙂

Why not? I never said he shouldn't! 🤔 My response was a tongue in cheek response ( hence the winking emoticon ) to Rewulfs satirical mimicking of the writer of the article he linked to, throwing a hissy fit because he couldn't get his own way! It's hilarious! 😀

If he's eligible, then I have no problem. There are many other ex pats who deride the UK and the British, but then return toot sweet when they need the NHS. He won't be the first, nor the last. 

[Rewulf]

30 minutes ago, oowee said:

55 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

leaving... FOREVER! 🤣

The home thing is not so easy as passport rights look more than a little risky. It's much easier to hedge against the downside

How so? 

Are you suggesting British passports won't be treated the same as every other European countries, perhaps the mighty and egalitarian EU will seek to punish us for leaving, surely not? 

Or are you suggesting snagging an EU passport for dual nationality? So you supposedly have the best of both worlds if Brexit doesn't work out. 

You cannot possibly be considering putting all your eggs in one national basket surely? 

Any country can fail, and you don't want to be the foreigner in a failing country. 

16 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

- I work abroad and the the term ‘Island mentality’ crops up with alarming regularity

That's IRELAND mentality they're talking about 😂

Discussing a country that is considering chopping its legs off, because it doesn't fancy clipping it's toe nails... 

[oowee]

A simple hedge against the downside of Brexit is to take assets out of the UK and maybe buy in, on the fall. An EU passport is defo a good move make sure you have a foot in both camps makes it easier to step off. 

 

 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

A simple hedge against the downside of Brexit is to take assets out of the UK and maybe buy in, on the fall. An EU passport is defo a good move make sure you have a foot in both camps makes it easier to step off. 

 

 

🤔 The asset part is entirely up to you, but as far as citizenship goes, if you can live in another EU country as an ex pat, retaining UK  citizenship, then why do you need an EU passport?

If you CAN'T  continue as an ex pat, in the unlikely event of your country of residence no longer wanting your revenue/taxes, then you either have to adopt citizenship of said country, relinquish your rights to UK privileges, or  come home. 

There isn't really a situation where you can keep the best of both worlds, without paying through the nose for it. 

And surely that defeats the object? 

[panoma1]

I read the traitors in Parliament have met and between them agreed to join a conspiracy against the elected Government and the British people to stop Brexit! By passing a law, under the guise of preventing the UK leaving the EU without a "deal" which both they and the people (via another referendum) agree to!............when in reality, Parliament will not accept any deal, there is no other deal on the table, so what is then left? The only reasonable conclusion is that Parliament believe leave can take over Parliament re-run the (this time rigged) referendum, defeat the democratic wishes of the people and attain their real goal....to prevent the UK leaving at all!

 

Surely the law is there to prevent such a coup d'etat? 

.....If the traitors succeed, I can foresee a rocky road ahead, for the usurpers, with an increased likelihood of civil unrest breaking out!

 

 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

🤔 The asset part is entirely up to you, but as far as citizenship goes, if you can live in another EU country as an ex pat, retaining UK  citizenship, then why do you need an EU passport?

If you CAN'T  continue as an ex pat, in the unlikely event of your country of residence no longer wanting your revenue/taxes, then you either have to adopt citizenship of said country, relinquish your rights to UK privileges, or  come home. 

There isn't really a situation where you can keep the best of both worlds, without paying through the nose for it. 

And surely that defeats the object? 

At this stage it's not certain on what basis a UK passport holder will reside in the EU. A resident with a passport has full rights. 

[Jaymo]

10 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I read the traitors in Parliament have met and between them agreed to join a conspiracy against the elected Government and the British people to stop Brexit! By passing a law, under the guise of preventing the UK leaving the EU without a "deal" which both they and the people (via another referendum) agree to!............when in reality, Parliament will not accept any deal, there is no other deal on the table, so what is then left? The only reasonable conclusion is that Parliament believe leave can take over Parliament re-run the (this time rigged) referendum, defeat the democratic wishes of the people and attain their real goal....to prevent the UK leaving at all!

 

Surely the law is there to prevent such a coup d'etat? 

.....If the traitors succeed, I can foresee a rocky road ahead, for the usurpers, with an increased likelihood of civil unrest breaking out!

 

 

It’s ok

Raja, Oowee, Henry and myself foresaw this and invested in the ‘Acme Pitchfork’ Company to ensure a good supply. 

unfortunately you need we’re selling them to “Remainers” only 🙂 

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I read the traitors in Parliament have met and between them agreed to join a conspiracy against the elected Government and the British people to stop Brexit! By passing a law, under the guise of preventing the UK leaving the EU without a "deal" which both they and the people (via another referendum) agree to!............when in reality, Parliament will not accept any deal, there is no other deal on the table, so what is then left? The only reasonable conclusion is that Parliament believe leave can take over Parliament re-run the (this time rigged) referendum, defeat the democratic wishes of the people and attain their real goal....to prevent the UK leaving at all!

 

Surely the law is there to prevent such a coup d'etat? 

.....If the traitors succeed, I can foresee a rocky road ahead, for the usurpers, with an increased likelihood of civil unrest breaking out!

 

 

Surely the leavers believe in getting a deal? We were told we would have a deal 'Its in the interest of the UK and the EU to have a deal'. If that's the case then it's not in anyone's interest to leave without a deal. Fortunately there are some prepared to look out for the interests of the UK. They should be applauded. I am more than a little disappointed that the EU is not doing more for it's citizens here, under this unelected PM. 

1 minute ago, Jaymo said:

It’s ok

Raja, Oowee, Henry and myself foresaw this and invested in the ‘Acme Pitchfork’ Company to ensure a good supply. 

unfortunately you need we’re selling them to “Remainers” only 🙂 

 

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

Surely the leavers believe in getting a deal? We were told we would have a deal 'Its in the interest of the UK and the EU to have a deal'. If that's the case then it's not in anyone's interest to leave without a deal. Fortunately there are some prepared to look out for the interests of the UK. They should be applauded. I am more than a little disappointed that the EU is not doing more for it's citizens here, under this unelected PM. 

 

According to the BBC news last week ( I think thread was locked at the time ) Germany has potentially more to lose than the UK, if /when we leave the EU, and Hamburg in particular potentially being hit the hardest. I got the impression Germany would like to cede more in the way of a deal, but  I really couldn’t care less what Germany wants while we’re still in the EU. 

For me personally I just want out. I have no objections to trading with the rest of the EU at all, and never have, but first I want us out. If that means no deal then that’s fine and dandy by me.

[panoma1]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

Surely the leavers believe in getting a deal? We were told we would have a deal 'Its in the interest of the UK and the EU to have a deal'. If that's the case then it's not in anyone's interest to leave without a deal. Fortunately there are some prepared to look out for the interests of the UK. They should be applauded. I am more than a little disappointed that the EU is not doing more for it's citizens here, under this unelected PM. 

 

These traitors are saying they are going to try to pass a law preventing a "no deal' Brexit.......when in reality, they are using this deception to prevent the UK leaving the EU under any circumstances!

Most leavers want to leave with an acceptable deal.....the EU ain't offering one, the remainer traitors say they want one, but won't vote for any deal, so what options are left?........leave without a deal or remain in the EU!

Unelected PM? Bad if it doesn't suit a remainer agenda, OK if it does!.........typical remainer double standards and Hypocrisy?

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, oowee said:

We were told we would have a deal 'Its in the interest of the UK and the EU to have a deal'.

My take of it was that we would try and get a deal.  It IS in the interests of the UK and the EU business (industry, manufacturing and farming/growing) and citizens/shoppers - but NOT the EU commission who are far too inflexible and focused on rigid rules.

A deal is in everyone's interests and should be common sense ........ but it cannot be 'remaining' in all practical aspects; by that I mean that under the terms of a deal, we cannot remain in the single market, the customs union, and there can be no 'backstop' that holds us in against our will and only unilaterally released.

28 minutes ago, oowee said:

under this unelected PM.

The PM came to office as leader of his party - and he was elected leader of that party according to the written rules for leader choice.  He is therefore NOT unelected.

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

These traitors are saying they are going to try to pass a law preventing a "no deal' Brexit.......when in reality, they are using this deception to prevent the UK leaving the EU under any circumstances!

Most leavers want to leave with an acceptable deal.....the EU ain't offering one, the remainer traitors say they want one, but won't vote for any deal, so what options are left?........leave without a deal or remain in the EU!

Unelected PM? Bad if it doesn't suit a remainer agenda, OK if it does!.........typical remainer double standards and Hypocrisy?

For the referendum we were told a deal would be easy. Are you saying we were lied to by the Brexiteers? 

We were told that a deal is in everyone's interest. Surely leaving without a deal is therefore not in our interest. We could have anyone of a number of deals on offer from May to Norway and back via Canada but they are not as good as what we have. 

Double standards? I do not support any unelected PM. 

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

My take of it was that we would try and get a deal.  It IS in the interests of the UK and the EU business (industry, manufacturing and farming/growing) and citizens/shoppers - but NOT the EU commission who are far too inflexible and focused on rigid rules.

A deal is in everyone's interests and should be common sense ........ but it cannot be 'remaining' in all practical aspects; by that I mean that under the terms of a deal, we cannot remain in the single market, the customs union, and there can be no 'backstop' that holds us in against our will and only unilaterally released.

We were told as part of the refendum that the EU rules to protect the EU market would be applied.

We knew the issue of the border before the vote. The extremists at the helm want to go down the route of a free market economy that will require a border under WTO rules. That is the only reason the backstop is there. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by oowee

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

that will require a border under WTO rules. That is the only reason the backstop is there. 

There is a border now; different currency, different VAT rates, different taxation systems/rates etc., different country.  It is a border between countries, but it has always (including pre EU times) been quite a 'porous' border.

We have clearly stated that we don't intend any 'extra' border facilities.  If the EU want some, they/Ireland must install whatever they want.  That would be the EU/Ireland's decision - and up to them to implement what they want/consider necessary.  If they want more than that - I believe Donald Trump has some designs he might license ........ but again - that is up to the EU.

[Retsdon]

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87343#disqus_thread

The very idea of walking away without a deal is preposterous. How can a modern, developed economy hope to manage in this world without a complex skein of trading and political agreements with 27 of its closest neighbours? 

On that basis, the concept of a no-deal departure is a non-starter. What it actually means is that we leave without a formal agreement brokered under the aegis of Article 50, whence we must then immediately seek to re-open negotiations to secure any number of bilateral agreements with the EU in order to make possible the basic relationships which must exist between states. 

In what is called a no-deal scenario, this puts us procedurally into the remit of Article 218 of the Treaty of the Functioning of the European Union, a provision the "colleagues" are under no obligation to invoke, and need not entertain except under terms most favourable to themselves. 

To "walk away" supposedly without a deal, therefore, is not actually what it says. It is simply to conclude without a formal agreement the first phase of a long, drawn-out, multi-phasic process that was never going to take less than several decades, precipitating us unprepared into the uncertainties of the next phase, under the most unfavourable of circumstances.

And there's the problem. The No Deal scenario is nothing but a fantasy. 

 

[Stonepark]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

For the referendum we were told a deal would be easy. Are you saying we were lied to by the Brexiteers?  - No, we were betrayed by the remainers who were negotiating, had we had a proper negotiation from the start we would not be in the position we are.

We were told that a deal is in everyone's interest. Surely leaving without a deal is therefore not in our interest. - No, a 'bad deal, is still worse than a no deal (WTO terms).

Double standards? I do not support any unelected PM. - MP's are elected to parliment, parties elect leaders, unless a party member for the winners at a GE who also voted them as leader, you never actually elect a PM as such only the party.

We were told as part of the refendum that the EU rules to protect the EU market would be applied. - They are but it's Brussels being petty rather than what people (both consumers and businesses) actually want.

We knew the issue of the border before the vote. The extremists at the helm want to go down the route of a free market economy that will require a border under WTO rules. That is the only reason the backstop is there.  - Surely a free market economy is the antithesis of the WTO rules or a backstop. There is not a single reason for the UK (other than losing a small amount of tax) for the UK to place any barriers between Northern Ireland and Ireland and the appraoch of not erecting any UK barriers, puts the EU (brussels) firmly in the sights of the general public as being the bad guys (which they are) when they insist on a barrier..

 

5 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

And there's the problem. The No Deal scenario is nothing but a fantasy. 

 

 

It's about to become reality!  - The WTO rules are already in place and can be used straight away as they are by many other countries when dealng with the EU.

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

and can be used straight away as they are by many other countries when dealng with the EU.

There aren't many. https://fullfact.org/europe/who-trades-eu-under-wto-rules/  And no country on the planet trades with its nearest neighbours under WTO rules. Oh wait, my mistake - there's Mauritania! https://medium.com/@MrWeeble/who-actually-trades-solely-under-wto-rules-1b6127ce33c6

 So after probably 20 years of negotiation  we'll be back where we are  now. Marvellous.

[panoma1]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

For the referendum we were told a deal would be easy. Are you saying we were lied to by the Brexiteers? 

We were told that a deal is in everyone's interest. Surely leaving without a deal is therefore not in our interest. 

Double standards? I do not support any unelected PM. 

We were told as part of the refendum that the EU rules to protect the EU market would be applied.

We knew the issue of the border before the vote. The extremists at the helm want to go down the route of a free market economy that will require a border under WTO rules. That is the only reason the backstop is there. 

No deal is easy if the other party won't deal! And no deal is easy, if the traitor remainers in Parliament remove all your negotiators bargaining chips!....so we weren't lied to......we were undermined by traitors!

Leaving without a deal is not in anyone's interests.....blame the traitors in parliament! Their treachery has left the UK with no option!

To my knowledge the electorate has never elected the PM, that has always been the job of the party....the electorate just elect MP's....so you may or may not like it, but you have currently and never have had any say!.......that's just how things are so the PM doesn't need your or any other member of the electorates support! And never has! So protesting that you do not support any unelected PM is an irrelevance!....but rhetorically (and if you did, hypocritically) I imagine you would support an unelected PM.....who vowed to remain in the EU? Lol!

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

 

 

It's about to become reality!  - The WTO rules are already in place and can be used straight away as they are by many other countries when dealng with the EU.

Great isn't it that we cannot set out trading terms with our closest partners and instead to choose to adopt a backward trading arrangement. An arrangement designed to reduce the impact of cheap foreign goods undermining our standards. 

WTO rules that will require equal treatment of all trading partners. No border for one is no border for all. 

[pinfireman]

On 26/08/2019 at 18:07, henry d said:

Guido quotes that the EU food ranks much lower, why do they not provide a link or an actual list?

Just asking

So higher levels of fat sugar salt and calories is better, that can't be right?

Check food standards, and animal welfare in Slovenia, which has open access right across the EU........

On 26/08/2019 at 18:17, Retsdon said:

That has to be standard thoughout the EU surely?

I wouldn,t bet on it!