Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, oowee said: An excellent read. The modern British state has distanced itself from the productive economy and is barely able to take an expert view of the complexities of modern capitalism. The state can no longer undertake the radical planning and intervention that might make Brexit work. That would require not only an expert state, but one closely aligned with business. Agreed but I feel the hedge fund / avoidance on EU banking rules is a little under-played in the article. There remain many convinced that this is the predominant reason for Brexit in the first instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Are you calling Rewulf a snowflake? 😛 If I did I doubt he would be too worried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-boris-johnson-cummings-referendum-final-say-vote-no-deal-a9148876.html It's not happening is it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Oh it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Oh it is! A final say, or Brexit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 What a load of garbage that article is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: If I did I doubt he would be too worried! Not what I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Dominic Cummings is on the DS3 pay point for senior civil servants. That's £230,000 pa from the taxpayer. Incredible really that there isn't national outrage. His job basically is to help one faction of the Conservative party win the next election. Why is the taxpayer footing the bill? If you think that’s outrageous, try reading ‘ Patronising ********!’ by Quentin Letts. They’re all in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: Your right of course we should but skilled jobs often rely upon integrated methods of work, common standards and knowledge networks. Its possible, but harder, and likely to be more expensive to do this as UK plc. In any joint European collaboration UK plc will either not figure or be the weak link in the chain. Rather than focus on cheap give aways that we cannot afford the Government should have education as its number one priority. Knowledge Absolutely, and we already have these in a lot of areas, and I'm sure it's the same in areas I know nothing about IT, Science and Medical. I see no point pushing cheap imported labour, with minimum wage there isn't really cheap labour in this country anymore that can compete with foreign labour, so we need to be smarter not cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: I hope you're referring to a different type of tag team than first came to mind. Filthy mind ! 😂 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: I thought that we had established that people who refer to others as snowflakes are normally a bit like those who tell others to get a life - afflicted by the very thing they accuse others of... As long as theyre happy, they can do as they please, until what they do affects what I do with mine 😛 1 hour ago, Retsdon said: Dominic Cummings is on the DS3 pay point for senior civil servants. That's £230,000 pa from the taxpayer. Worth every penny, but you know what ? I bet he would do it for free, just to see the reactions of all those that bitch about him, when he succeeds in his strategy. 1 hour ago, Retsdon said: Incredible really that there isn't national outrage. His job basically is to help one faction of the Conservative party win the next election. Why is the taxpayer footing the bill? Incredible to who ? You ? His job is to assist the government deliver on a national vote we had 3 and a half years ago, despite the protestations of a certain undemocratic and corrupt section of parliament. Thereby restoring faith in politics in the UK. The electorate will decide whether they like Boris and Cummings, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1188524/brexit-news-john-bercow-EU-David-Sassoli-european-union Outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I bet he would do it for free, just to see the reactions of all those that bitch about him, when he succeeds in his strategy. I bet he wouldn't actually. Incredible to who ? You ? His job is to assist the government deliver on a national vote we had 3 and a half years ago, despite the protestations of a certain undemocratic and corrupt section of parliament. Thereby restoring faith in politics in the UK. The electorate will decide whether they like Boris and Cummings, not you. Only if they last that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said: I bet he wouldn't actually. Ah so you know him well enough to say hes only in it for the money ? 2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Only if they last that long. This is the problem with that statement. To remove something functional, you have to replace it with something. Take the engine out your car, its not a car anymore, its a metal shed on wheels. Remove the government, you have to put another one in its place. Again , run the scenarios,. Boris wont quit, sack Boris (somehow) elect new tory party leader, now unless Boris is physically unable to stand, he wins again- back to square 1. Have GE , tories win with or without BP support, we leave. Caretaker government (unlikely) delays Brexit ,but forces GE , I think we know what happens there... Or do you want to believe opposition propaganda where they win by landslide, a matter plainly in the fevered fantasies of JC and JS , but given the lie by the fact they wont call an election. What Im saying is , you cant prevent something happening , when its gathered this much momentum . A new government HAS to respect the vote, or that vote will remove that government, and put one there that will respect it. Run some more if you like , but with the intransigence of the EU , it all comes back to the same place. If the electorate were more on board with remaining, we wouldnt be having this conversation, but despite the best efforts of all concerned, theyre not. So I would get used to the fact that this tory government isnt going anywhere, it is in fact more solid than Ive seen it in years. Get used to the fact , we are leaving, in whatever form , for better or worse, because its what the people want, its what they voted for, yes you can say no deal wasnt on the ballot, but neither was 'a deal' . I dont think most leavers care anymore, I not sure many remainers do either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, Rewulf said: Ah so you know him well enough to say hes only in it for the money ? Probably no better than you would know he isn't. This is the problem with that statement. To remove something functional, you have to replace it with something. Take the engine out your car, its not a car anymore, its a metal shed on wheels. On what basis is this govt any more functional than the previous one? Remove the government, you have to put another one in its place. Again , run the scenarios,. Boris wont quit, sack Boris (somehow) elect new tory party leader, now unless Boris is physically unable to stand, he wins again- back to square 1. Have GE , tories win with or without BP support, we leave. Caretaker government (unlikely) delays Brexit ,but forces GE , I think we know what happens there... Or do you want to believe opposition propaganda where they win by landslide, a matter plainly in the fevered fantasies of JC and JS , but given the lie by the fact they wont call an election. What Im saying is , you cant prevent something happening , when its gathered this much momentum . A new government HAS to respect the vote, or that vote will remove that government, and put one there that will respect it. Run some more if you like , but with the intransigence of the EU , it all comes back to the same place. How about some unbiased scenarios?... If the electorate were more on board with remaining, we wouldnt be having this conversation, but despite the best efforts of all concerned, theyre not. According to? So I would get used to the fact that this tory government isnt going anywhere, it is in fact more solid than Ive seen it in years. Give over 🙂 Get used to the fact , we are leaving, in whatever form , for better or worse, because its what the people want, its what they voted for, yes you can say no deal wasnt on the ballot, but neither was 'a deal' . But a deal was promised, no deal was never mentioned and neither were the problems with Ireland. I dont think most leavers care anymore, I not sure many remainers do either. If your predictions are correct, nearly everyone will care pretty soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: I thought that we had established that people who refer to others as snowflakes are normally a bit like those who tell others to get a life - afflicted by the very thing they accuse others of... Snowflake is a 2010s derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly-emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions. Common usages include the terms special snowflake, Generation Snowflake, and snowflake as a politicized insult. Personally, I think the term is quite apt in some circumstances 🥴 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, KB1 said: Snowflake is a 2010s derogatory slang term for a person, implying that they have an inflated sense of uniqueness, an unwarranted sense of entitlement, or are overly-emotional, easily offended, and unable to deal with opposing opinions. Common usages include the terms special snowflake, Generation Snowflake, and snowflake as a politicized insult. Personally, I think the term is quite apt in some circumstances 🥴 But, just like you post, a bit too vague to be taken as a personal insult 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: But, just like you post, a bit too vague to be taken as a personal insult 😛 Thats because it wasn't one😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Ah so you know him well enough to say hes only in it for the money ? Probably no better than you would know he isn't. Not an answer really is it ? But you should know your enemy before you assume their motives. He was a SpAd for 7 years under Gove, on good money , hes been in and out of government for nearly 20 years, and even if he stays on after 31/10, hes only earned about £40k so far, its hardly a kings ransom is it ? Put that on top of the fact , hes one of the most unpopular people in London, its hardly grounds to level the mercenary jibe is it ? 17 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: On what basis is this govt any more functional than the previous one? Massive reforms, mucho monies promised , 20,000 new cops , oh and 3 months to sort Brexit , rather than 3 years dithering ! Viva el presidente Boris ! 19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: How about some unbiased scenarios?... Youve done it again , I asked YOU to run some scenarios, I gave you a few examples to start you off, Ive already run 100s 😛 20 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: But a deal was promised, no deal was never mentioned and neither were the problems with Ireland. Old ground , come on , what did it say on the ballot, what was promised ? Once in a generation , final , in out, out the customs union, out the single market , blah blah WW3 ! 22 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: If your predictions are correct, nearly everyone will care pretty soon. were all DOOOOOMED ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: What a load of garbage that article is. The guardian and indy are literally bombarding their fast disappearing readers with such rubbish. Where as real stuff like this goes under their radar. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1188524/brexit-news-john-bercow-EU-David-Sassoli-european-union?fbclid=IwAR3dF6wtKvSVnWrWe1GxzrybXrtAxbPVb16lmG18v29JEIjOyVVH8-icc0Q Richard Tice 1 hr · BREAKING: Here in Brussels new President Sassoli admits in the plenary chamber that he has bypassed the UK Prime Minister and Government and is now in direct discussions with Bercow about Brexit negotiations. He refused to take my urgent question on what authority they had to have these discussions. If thes papers werent propped up financially by Arab, Hungarian and Russian billionaires, they would nt last 5 minutes. They are simply mouthpieces , and tools for disinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) Quote But a deal was promised, no deal was never mentioned and neither were the problems with Ireland. Dumbest statement for quite some time. David Cameron said it many times, but some won't listen. Head in the sand. Edited October 9, 2019 by Gordon R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Tories look to be running out of running room and will soon have to face the music. The party has been a long time split on leaving the EU and will soon have to decide a manifesto position. It has always been easier for Brexiteers to say what they do not want, than to propose something that they do. No Deal. An unlikely choice and you can see the gathering storm clouds in the party today. Withdraw from the Customs Union and they have to either abandon the'Good Fri Agreement' or leave NI in the EU. The 'we will get a deal option' lacks credibility after three years. Brexit party on the other hand can stick to the simple ' We don't like it' line without proposing anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, oowee said: No Deal. An unlikely choice and you can see the gathering storm clouds in the party today. Theyve already said thats not how they will fight an election, theyve never been a 'no' deal' party. 8 minutes ago, oowee said: Withdraw from the Customs Union and they have to either abandon the'Good Fri Agreement' or leave NI in the EU. And if N Ireland dont want to be in the EU , or dont their opinions count ? 9 minutes ago, oowee said: The 'we will get a deal option' lacks credibility after three years. Alternative ? Seriously Grant, the only deal the EU will agree to is the one they wrote themselves , which gives them NI. Surely you understand that isnt going to happen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 What alternative? To get an alternative they have to understand the issues and be open with the implications. Reality and Brexit do not go well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Thats the next action in this gathering of snakes, get Bercow to allow a motion to revoke A50. Whatever your Brexit leaning, you must realise this is wrong, they have colluded with a foreign power to overturn the majority will of the UK electorate. But as I said earlier, it cannot work, because it always goes back to the people, and the people want out, whether its by GE or 2nd referendum. The anger will be felt. 2 minutes ago, oowee said: What alternative? To get an alternative they have to understand the issues and be open with the implications. Reality and Brexit do not go well together. Whose reality ? Yours, Mr Corbyns , Swinsons ? They were told the direst forecasts , they STILL voted out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Rewulf said: The guardian and indy are literally bombarding their fast disappearing readers with such rubbish. Where as real stuff like this goes under their radar. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1188524/brexit-news-john-bercow-EU-David-Sassoli-european-union?fbclid=IwAR3dF6wtKvSVnWrWe1GxzrybXrtAxbPVb16lmG18v29JEIjOyVVH8-icc0Q Richard Tice 1 hr · BREAKING: Here in Brussels new President Sassoli admits in the plenary chamber that he has bypassed the UK Prime Minister and Government and is now in direct discussions with Bercow about Brexit negotiations. He refused to take my urgent question on what authority they had to have these discussions. If thes papers werent propped up financially by Arab, Hungarian and Russian billionaires, they would nt last 5 minutes. They are simply mouthpieces , and tools for disinformation. I am actually beginning to think your real name may well be Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf 😛 Edited October 9, 2019 by Raja Clavata dropped the d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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