Raja Clavata Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, B725 said: And if the referendum results are the same then what. We leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, B725 said: And if the referendum results are the same then what. We ensure that the second ref leaves no doubt as to what we are voting for. If we have to we have a progressive ref. If not this then that cast several votes each. Not as hard as it sounds many other coutries do it as a matter of course. Something like leave or stay. if its leave this deal or no deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Excellent news 👍Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: We leave 😂 Really!? Are you serious? You’re forgetting one tiny little aspect....the establishment don’t want us to leave. What do you think the last three years has been about....preparing to leave? It’s been about preparing to remain, and has been from the outset! They have no intention of honouring the result of this referendum, we would have to be naive beyond belief to believe they would honour a second.....unless the result was remain of course. Please, any further referendums are merely one more step in the process of preventing us from leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Christopher Jones Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 19 hours ago, Rewulf said: It does seem rather pointless when you think about it ! Its like leaving , then discussing how bad its going to be ! The trouble is the Conservative 2017 manifesto promised different things on different pages. So for example on page 32 it promised'The best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.'On page 35 it promised'We want to agree a deep and special partnership with the European Union. This partnership will benefit both the European Union and the United Kingdom: while we are leaving the European Union, we are not leaving Europe, and we want to remain committed partners and allies to our friends across the continent.'Bit on page 36 it said'but we continue to believe that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK.'It also said on the same page'We will maintain the Common Travel Area and maintain as friction less a border as possible for people, goods and services between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.'It goes onto say'As we leave the European Union, we will no longer be members of the single market or customs union but we will seek a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive free trade and customs agreement.' and'We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible – so both sides benefit. We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union'https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/c...sperous....pdfPeople can read anything into it they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: We ensure that the second ref leaves no doubt as to what we are voting for. If we have to we have a progressive ref. If not this then that cast several votes each. Not as hard as it sounds many other coutries do it as a matter of course. Something like leave or stay. if its leave this deal or no deal. "Something like leave or stay. if its leave this deal or no deal" or if it is stay this deal or no deal , but then that does not suit your agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 Absolutely, if there is to be a second referendum (I don’t think there should be, it would be anti-democratic) then there should only be one question. Do you want the Euro as the currency of the UK? Yes No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 There is no need to repeat the question of leave or remain. If Boris gets a deal with the EU and gets it through Parliament then great, out we go. But, that isn’t going to happen so one option to allow us to move forward would be a public vote between no deal and remain. Other options / suggestions? 2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Absolutely, if there is to be a second referendum (I don’t think there should be, it would be anti-democratic) then there should only be one question. Do you want the Euro as the currency of the UK? Yes No For real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: "Something like leave or stay. if its leave this deal or no deal" or if it is stay this deal or no deal , but then that does not suit your agenda Lost me a bit there, you’re suggesting we go and try to negotiate a remain deal with the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: We leave Was it best out of three then? Missed that bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: There is no need to repeat the question of leave or remain. If Boris gets a deal with the EU and gets it through Parliament then great, out we go. But, that isn’t going to happen so one option to allow us to move forward would be a public vote between no deal and remain. You’re either not getting this or you’re just trying to enact typical remainer tactics, and as I regard you as a pretty intelligent bloke I can therefore only assume it’s the latter. The establishment DO NOT want us to leave. If we had another vote and it was ‘no deal’ we’d be back to square one. If it was remain, do you seriously believe all the campaigning to get us to the point of the referendum is simply going to be forgotten about and go away? Lets get it done with, leave on the 31st Oct, and then get on with our lives. Edited September 28, 2019 by Scully Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: For real? Yes, because if we remain then there is every possibility that we we be forced at some stage to adopt the Euro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Lost me a bit there, you’re suggesting we go and try to negotiate a remain deal with the EU? Why not , if we need a deal to leave we need to know what terms we are staying on, because as sure as god made little green apples the EU is going to screw us in the next 10 years like they have in the last 10 under the current deal if we don't have things set in stone. Or is that what you want. Personally I want out as quick as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Newbie to this said: Yes, because if we remain then there is every possibility that we we be forced at some stage to adopt the Euro. I thought EU policy was for all ‘member states’ to adopt the EU, with deeper and deeper integration and an increase in contributions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mice! said: Was it best out of three then? Missed that bit. No but you appear to have missed the point of nailing this once and for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) Maybe we could have more than one question like others have said. Maybe Do you wish to be in a single taxation policy within the EU? Yes No And Do you wish the UK armed forces to be under the control of the EU? Yes No And maybe Do you wish ever closer political and financial union with the EU, handing over more and more of our laws and sovereign powers? Yes No I'm sure there are many more things about remaining we could ask about too. Edit - but I still think the Euro question should cover it!!! Edited September 28, 2019 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Yes, because if we remain then there is every possibility that we we be forced at some stage to adopt the Euro. We could deal with that if and when it happens (before it happens). We can’t be forced to do something that we don’t want to do. We have options. The flip side is that under no deal Brexit the £ may well go below parity with the €. Being in the Euro would make my life easier but I don’t think it’s the right thing for the country and our economy as a whole. If we were to remain it provides us with a buffer in the event that the EU does crash and burn. i used to think the EU was doomed but perversely the whole Brexit debacle has strengthened their positioning and amongst other things just about killed off any notion of Frexit for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Christopher Jones Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Yes, because if we remain then there is every possibility that we we be forced at some stage to adopt the Euro. And you believe that will be a problem ??. Just think no more currency exchange, for businesses or expats or holidays + no more Brit governments "meddling" in the currency levels. Win win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 Just now, Capt Christopher Jones said: And you believe that will be a problem ??. Just think no more currency exchange, for businesses or expats or holidays + no more Brit governments "meddling" in the currency levels. Win win Absolutely it would be a problem. Just ask the likes of Italy or Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Scully said: You’re either not getting this or you’re just trying to enact typical remainder tactics, and as I regard you as a pretty intelligent bloke I can therefore only assume it’s the latter. The establishment DO NOT want us to leave. If we had another vote and it was ‘no deal’ we’d be back to square one. If it was remain, do you seriously believe all the campaigning to get us to the point of the referendum is simply going to be forgotten about and go away? Lets get it done with, leave on the 31st Oct, and then get on with our lives. We have a government that appear to be trying to take us out without a deal whilst pretending to try to negotiate one. Isn’t the government part of the establishment? I’d venture that roughly half the establishment don’t want us to leave which is roughly the same proportion of the people who want the same. To move forward we need a mechanism that delivers the try will of the majority and ties the nay sayers down to accept the outcome. The original referendum didn’t do that hence the shenanigans, if the Brexiteers can just accept that and compromise a little then we can actually start to make progress. 5 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said: And you believe that will be a problem ??. Just think no more currency exchange, for businesses or expats or holidays + no more Brit governments "meddling" in the currency levels. Win win The banks and large corporations make huge sums of money working the foreign currency exchanges. There were times in the past where these profits offset operational costs which would otherwise have presented existential threats to said organisations. Ford of Europe is a prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: We have a government that appear to be trying to take us out without a deal whilst pretending to try to negotiate one. Isn’t the government part of the establishment? I’d venture that roughly two thirds the establishment don’t want us to leave which is roughly the same proportion of the people outside London and Scotland who want to leave To move forward we need a mechanism that delivers the try will of the majority and ties the nay sayers down to accept the outcome. The original referendum did do that hence the shenanigans, if the Remainers can just accept that and compromise a little then we can actually start to make progress. There corrected that for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: Why not , if we need a deal to leave we need to know what terms we are staying on, because as sure as god made little green apples the EU is going to screw us in the next 10 years like they have in the last 10 under the current deal if we don't have things set in stone. Or is that what you want. Personally I want out as quick as possible. I don’t believe you believe that is feasible or reasonable any more than I believe you can provide indisputable evidence that God made little green apples... 3 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: There corrected that for you No, you modified it for me. Okay so now what? You seem to be looking backwards, I’m trying to see a way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 42 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said: People can read anything into it they want Exactly , like youve just done. 43 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said: The trouble is the Conservative 2017 manifesto promised different things on different pages. So for example on page 32 it promised'The best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.'Did it actually say 'promised' ? I doubt it very much, you cant promise something that depends on the agreement of an opposing party. Hope for, would without checking , be the correct form. As below..On page 35 it promised'We want to agree a deep and special partnership with the European Union. This partnership will benefit both the European Union and the United Kingdom: while we are leaving the European Union, we are not leaving Europe, and we want to remain committed partners and allies to our friends across the continent.'Bit on page 36 it said'but we continue to believe that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK.' I will grant you, history will show these words to be without foundation.It also said on the same page'We will maintain the Common Travel Area and maintain as friction less a border as possible for people, goods and services between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.'Again, with the agreement of the other party, who , despite their bleeding heart profession of preserving the good friday agreement, have said they WILL erect a hard border, even if the UK dont. Obviously their 'integrity' comes second to the possibility of renewed violence in NI.It goes onto say'As we leave the European Union, we will no longer be members of the single market or customs union but we will seek a deep and special partnership including a comprehensive free trade and customs agreement.' and'We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible – so both sides benefit. We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union'https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/c...sperous....pdf So in summary , do you believe the manifesto to be full of lies, or full of hopes, that the EU would deal with us in mutual benefit ? Read into it what you will, but please dont misconstrue the language used as a guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: We could deal with that if and when it happens (before it happens).If we end up remaining, the 'issue' of remain will be 'dealt' with , at the next election. Make no mistake about that. So dont worry about the Euro question. We can’t be forced to do something that we don’t want to do. We have options.The EU have forced quotas on us for years, farming , manufacture, and migration. The same has been tried with variable success on other EU countries. Its not over yet either. The flip side is that under no deal Brexit the £ may well go below parity with the €.It might, for a while, lets not count the chickens.. Being in the Euro would make my life easier but I don’t think it’s the right thing for the country and our economy as a whole. If we were to remain it provides us with a buffer in the event that the EU does crash and burn.How do you work that out ? I can only see the opposite happening, and what do you mean IF it crashes, all the indicators are here , right now. i used to think the EU was doomed but perversely the whole Brexit debacle has strengthened their positioning and amongst other things just about killed off any notion of Frexit for example.Again , thats topsy turvy thinking, their position whatever the outcome is damaged, their reputation in tatters for their disgusting attitude. Frexit, Grexit and Italexit are all forgone conclusions once we are out, just time stands in the way, and the undemocratic practices powered by EU sponsored politicos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted September 28, 2019 Report Share Posted September 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rewulf said: So in summary , do you believe the manifesto to be full of lies, or full of hopes, Hopes. Like people fill out lottery tickets in the hope that they will win. It's not much of a basis for governmental policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts