BREXIT

[ditchman]

12 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Anyone not purchased a weekend /Saturday copy of the Daily Telegraph then do. Charles moore has written a biography of Mrs Thatcher and it includes some damning stuff on Major and Heseltine et all. A good read, so good I might just buy the book.  Shows what we 'The People' are up against. A load of treacherous self serving creeps.

would that have anything to do with "arms for aid" the pergoya damn and Westland whirlwind...???

[Walker570]

Must admit I have only managed to read the first few paragraphs which relate to the back stabbing of Mrs Thatcher.  Major had written to support her but rrealised if he didn't add his name to get her re elected then he would have a good chance of becoming Prime Minister as a cabale of anti Thatcherites and Pro EU enthusiasts had promised the job more or less, but I am sure those subjects will come up.  Extracts from the book is being printed in the Telegraph over the next few weeks but just twp paragraphs may sway me to go out and buy a copy.

[Rewulf]

52 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

What was the Ref vote in the area

The relevance being ?

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Welcome to reality. I am filling the jerry cans. 

Go for it 🤣

[Rewulf]

56 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/brexit-preparedness-correspondence-with-the-eu-institutions

Thus is the recent exchange of letters between Steve Barclay and Barnier, which I found quite amusing. Here in Saudi I have this kind of conversation with my students all the time. It goes like this.

S: Please, can't you just change my grade a little bit. If I get 5% more it will mean, etc.etc.
R: Sorry, much as I like you Ahmed, I can't do that.
S: But it wouldn't matter to you! Why won't you help me?
R: OK, one, because if I changed your grade I'd have to change every other student's grade. Two, the whole system depends on people like me doing our jobs properly. Your degree would be worthless if we didn't. Three, it wouldn't be fair on other students who actually did some work. Now, if that's all you wanted, I'm a bit busy at the moment...
S; But Mr. R, please. Why won't you help me...

I know exactly how Barnier must feel. When there is a system in place - that's how it has to work because otherwise the wheels will come off. What Barclay and Co are asking of the EU is that it bend its own rules to help the UK and it can't do that anymore than I can give a student an extra few percent to get him a pass or improve his GPA. Sure, it wouldn't hurt me to do it, but go down that route...

And this is why I don't understand this government. What it's asking from the EU, the EU can't give and it should know that.

Your analogy sucks !

Try it this way. 

S. Ok Mr R , if you wont give me that 5% , I'm going to put in a formal complaint about you for , bullying , sexual harassment, no ? Ok im going to walk into that door now and say you hit me ....

Now we have a little balance back to the argument ?

The eu dont hold all the power here, just like you dont in the classroom.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Yellow Hammer. 

It's doing exactly what it was designed to do then. Causing fear and panic and in turn may make some of it's predictions come true via people stockpiling 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Newbie to this

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

It's doing exactly what it was designed to do then. Causing fear and panic and in turn my make some of it's predictions come true via people stockpiling 

Not only that , yellowhammer is a scenario assessment,  not a prediction! 

[oowee]

I wonder if the 2000 refinery workers voted leave? 

[oowee]

Looking for the silver lining. 

The – largely unmentioned – benefit of a no-deal Brexit is that since the neoliberal global economy is declining, Britain might as well get its collapse in early to avoid the rush.  That is, as the net energy available to the economy declines because of the remorseless rise in the cost of energy, so maintaining the complex network of supply chains that keeps the system going is going to have to break down.  Like it or not, the future will be less material and far more localised.  The only question concerns the speed at which it happens and the way in which the impacts are felt.

Despite its proponents claims to the contrary, Brexit obliges the UK economy to re-localise and de-materialise in a way that it will ultimately have to anyway.  It is, of course, not the ideal means by which de-growth could occur.  But – let’s be honest here – no government on earth is going to voluntarily de-grow; so the longer we leave it, the more catastrophic it is going to be.  Moreover, a “managed de-growth” may turn out to be as fanciful in its way as the techno-utopian belief that we can continue to grow the global economy by replacing fossil fuels with wind turbines and solar panels.

Source 'The consciousness of sheep' 

We may yet be able to help out Greta and achieve our carbon targets after all. 

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

I wonder if the 2000 refinery workers voted leave? 

I wonder if the 17.4 million have changed their minds ?

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I wonder if the 17.4 million have changed their minds ?

Not many I suspect. I do wonder how many have errrrr moved on but more importantly how many can distinguish between leaving and no deal. 👍

How many of the 2.1 m new voters over the last three years will vote and which way would they vote if they have a choice?

Edited September 28, 2019 by oowee

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

We may yet be able to help out Greta and achieve our carbon targets after all.

The only way we can help out greta,  is by taking her off her parents and putting her into child protection.

We need to stop talking about carbon targets too , they are utterly irrelevant to the issue, we need to START talking about first world consumption, far too many people here and across the pond , are clinically obese.

Thus is driven by a yearning for profits, and promotion of that very consumption,  by big corporate players.

If air and car travel is so bad for our fragile planet,  then ban advertising cars, holidays, and any other carbon spewing pastime, it worked for cigarettes didn't it?

Let's get serious,  let's get greta to cancel summits for starters.

Video link from now on 😃

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not many I suspect. I do wonder how many have errrrr moved on but more importantly how many can distinguish between leaving and no deal. 👍

How many of the 2.1 m new voters over the last three years will vote and which way would they vote if they have a choice?

We can find out at the GE.

[Capt Christopher Jones]

40 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The relevance being ?

Go for it 🤣

They may have reaped wot they sowed so to speak

[Raja Clavata]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

The EU OWN the rule book, and are quite happy to change it, ignore it , or manipulate it to their advantage.
How can you exist or negotiate with that 

Which is why we need out.

Youve inadvertantly explained everything , to yourself.

 

Of course it is , its how it works, we make a mistake, we get to attempt a correction, by ridding ourselves of the people who caused it.

You dont get that option by staying in the EU , they mess up on policy...no ownership, no means of ridding ourselves of the hierarchy .

?? Of course it wouldnt !
But if we HAD taken the Euro and it crashed and burned ?
Our currency shared with 27 others, some of them far less stable than us ?
Come on, where is the logic in that question ?

No inadvertent, it’s an undeniable fact.

The question arose since you seemed to be implying the pound will be hit more than the Euro I’d the EU crashes and burns. Maybe I misunderstood but that was the basis of my question.

4 hours ago, B725 said:

Okay then so why not adhere to the first result instead of trying to stop it? 

They tried that, can’t reach agreement on acceptable terms. 

3 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

Because he is fairly certain the "establishment" will rig the questions so they can not lose.

Not so, poor judgement there chap

[Newbie to this]

38 minutes ago, oowee said:

I wonder if the 2000 refinery workers voted leave? 

Make no difference which way they voted. The UK voted as a whole.

It's called democracy

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

Must admit I have only managed to read the first few paragraphs which relate to the back stabbing of Mrs Thatcher.  Major had written to support her but rrealised if he didn't add his name to get her re elected then he would have a good chance of becoming Prime Minister as a cabale of anti Thatcherites and Pro EU enthusiasts had promised the job more or less, but I am sure those subjects will come up.  Extracts from the book is being printed in the Telegraph over the next few weeks but just twp paragraphs may sway me to go out and buy a copy.

wait until xmas it will on the supermarket shelves next to Andrex

[Capt Christopher Jones]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Make no difference which way they voted. The UK voted as a whole.

It's called democracy

Bozo will be Ex by nxt weekend

[Rewulf]

16 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

They may have reaped wot they sowed so to speak

And ?

Own that ****🤣

[oowee]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

Make no difference which way they voted. The UK voted as a whole.

It's called democracy

Your right in respect of the ref but I was thinking more of them loosing their jobs. Clearly if they voted leave then they won't mind so much. 

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Maybe I misunderstood but that was the basis of my question.

You did misunderstand,  I didn't say that.

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

The eu dont hold all the power here, just like you dont in the classroom.

Ah, but I do hold all the power and I award whatever grade I deem correct, regardless. Just like the EU holds all the power to enforce its own laws 

But like Ahmed in my analogy, you're missing the point. There's no malevolence involved. The whole thing only works because people stick to the rules. And the EU has a system of treaties and laws that govern the EU itself, and which  provide the framework and cohesion that enable 27 countries to live and function within the most sophisticated and advanced trading arrangement on the planet. That's how it works.

So even with the best will in the world the EU is simply not free to tear up its own rule book any more than I'm free to falsify a student's grade because I feel sorry for him. It can't be done without undermining or crashing the whole system. I'm sorry, but I really fail to understand why you have such a problem grasping this.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Retsdon

[SpringDon]

54 minutes ago, oowee said:

Looking for the silver lining. 

The – largely unmentioned – benefit of a no-deal Brexit is that since the neoliberal global economy is declining, Britain might as well get its collapse in early to avoid the rush.  That is, as the net energy available to the economy declines because of the remorseless rise in the cost of energy, so maintaining the complex network of supply chains that keeps the system going is going to have to break down.  Like it or not, the future will be less material and far more localised.  The only question concerns the speed at which it happens and the way in which the impacts are felt.

Despite its proponents claims to the contrary, Brexit obliges the UK economy to re-localise and de-materialise in a way that it will ultimately have to anyway.  It is, of course, not the ideal means by which de-growth could occur.  But – let’s be honest here – no government on earth is going to voluntarily de-grow; so the longer we leave it, the more catastrophic it is going to be.  Moreover, a “managed de-growth” may turn out to be as fanciful in its way as the techno-utopian belief that we can continue to grow the global economy by replacing fossil fuels with wind turbines and solar panels.

Source 'The consciousness of sheep' 

We may yet be able to help out Greta and achieve our carbon targets after all. 

So a <yet to be seen>% drop in gdp might be good then? Reduction/ reversal in growth is inevitable, some might say it would be advantage to be in a country where the government is not prevented from investing in infrastructure due to anti state competition rules.

[oowee]

21 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Ah, but I do hold all the power and I award whatever grade I deem correct, regardless. Just like the EU holds all the power to enforce its own laws 

But like Ahmed in my analogy, you're missing the point. There's no malevolence involved. The whole thing only works because people stick to the rules. And the EU has a system of treaties and laws that govern the EU itself, and which  provide the framework and cohesion that enable 27 countries to live and function within the most sophisticated and advanced trading arrangement on the planet. That's how it works.

So even with the best will in the world the EU is simply not free to tear up its own rule book any more than I'm free to falsify a student's grade because I feel sorry for him. It can't be done without undermining or crashing the whole system. I'm sorry, but I really fail to understand why you have such a problem grasping this.

The up shot of which is one last extension and then the inevitable no deal. It could have been avoided but as time has past any deal looks like a betrayal of Brexit and any deal is not going to attract the requisite votes. Add to which we have a leadership now and after any election incapable of working through the process.

6 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

So a <yet to be seen>% drop in gdp might be good then? Reduction/ reversal in growth is inevitable, some might say it would be advantage to be in a country where the government is not prevented from investing in infrastructure due to anti state competition rules.

Would that country be like the one we are in now? A country where there are no state aid rules for infrastructure? Or are you referring to state aid for products goods and services? Being out of the EU we could subsidise them to our hearts content but... we would likely have difficulty selling them beyond our shores. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just out without a deal on the 31st, I bet Boris has a plan!

[oowee]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Just out without a deal on the 31st, I bet Boris has a plan!

I think its inevitable in the absence of any options. Only a question of time. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

I think its inevitable in the absence of any options. Only a question of time. 

About 33 days!