Vince Green Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, henry d said: Ah, a spin on changing age demographics in the UK? So are people living longer and therefore having more health problems over a longer period of time or not? Another factor in a leaky NHS perhaps? No, not blaming old people for not dying, but can you say that old people (like me) who are living longer are not also a factor in the NHS not coping, along with the above possible reasons. It's not all about immigrants, if it was the solution would be simple but as the saying goes; for every complex problem there is a simple solution, and it is invariably wrong! The cost of saving somebody's life can be astronomical in terms of later monitoring and care. But look at St Mary's Paddington, its the national centre for HIV/Aids. Most of its patients are foreign nationals who came here after infection. Their medication is approx. £250 a day, which they couldn't afford back in their home country. Simple question, should the NHS treat them? Remembering that it doesn't stop at their treatment, they get housing and support as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 Try visiting a local hospital and then tell me that immigration is not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, henry d said: No, not blaming old people for not dying, but can you say that old people (like me) who are living longer are not also a factor in the NHS not coping, along with the above possible reasons. It's not all about immigrants, Do immigrants not grow old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, henry d said: Another factor that is not immigration based then? Great to see some critical broad based thinking! Well, if we are plundering doctors and nurses from around the world to come and work here because we have artificially created a shortfall then it does become an immigration issue even if it is of our making. If a foreign nurse or doctor is doing a job that could/should have being done by a home grown doctor or nurse that is simply wrong and very short sighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 I blame the EU for people living longer. 25 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Hundreds, more likely thousands of suitably qualified bright young hopefuls fail to get places to train as doctors and nurses every year. Apart from the loss to the country its a tragedy for the kids who could have been on the road to a respectable career and a totally different life. Instead the NHS has systematically closed the nurses schools to the point where they don't exist anymore. Years ago every hospital trained its own nurses, and paid them to train. There are currently training places for nursing going unfilled. People are simply not applying in sufficient numbers with sufficient skills. The pay rates are insufficient and the conditions too poor to attract and retain in nursing and for doctors. Coupled with a drop in the population 18 year olds and an attrition rate during training of 24%. We need more staff and have to pay more. https://www.health.org.uk/sites/default/files/upload/publications/2019/A Critical Moment_1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Do immigrants not grow old. Grasping at straws now, how many octogenarian immigrants do you see in the camps outside Calais? Jumping out of articulated lorries? 2 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Well, if we are plundering doctors and nurses from around the world to come and work here because we have artificially created a shortfall then it does become an immigration issue even if it is of our making. If a foreign nurse or doctor is doing a job that could/should have being done by a home grown doctor or nurse that is simply wrong and very short sighted. But that's not an illegal immigration problem, it's an asset as our kids don't want to do those jobs or are not suitable, others do though and would be happy to change your catheter or stoma if you ever need one. The shortfall came before we had to look elsewhere for staff, the argument is invalid if you try to say we went to other countries to get health care professionals before we needed them! 19 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Try visiting a local hospital and then tell me that immigration is not a problem. Are they all hiding in PRI? Quick, inform the police and immigration control! How do you know these things, you are amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, henry d said: Grasping at straws now, how many octogenarian immigrants do you see in the camps outside Calais? Jumping out of articulated lorries? Not all immigrants are illegal ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 The £30k pay limit for immigration is also adding to the problem. We cannot fill the lower skilled hospital jobs because of the immigration cap which is increasing pressure on the rest of the workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 23 minutes ago, Vince Green said: But look at St Mary's Paddington, its the national centre for HIV/Aids. Most of its patients are foreign nationals who came here after infection. Their medication is approx. £250 a day, which they couldn't afford back in their home country. Simple question, should the NHS treat them? Yes. Who am I, or indeed you, to say who should not get treatment? If they came here and were found to have cancer shortly after do they not get treatment? What if they have an accident and are incapacitated shortly after arrival? BTW where are your figures for St Mary's from not just numbers of foreign nationals but when they got infected? 9 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Not all immigrants are illegal ones. But that's what this thread is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 21 minutes ago, henry d said: But that's what this thread is about. My comments were not about illegal immigrants, originally it was recognition that you didn't blame old people as some people do. Which you then said it was possibly a contributing factor. I then pointed out that immigrants also get old. I never mentioned illegal immigrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 13 hours ago, henry d said: Grasping at straws now, how many octogenarian immigrants do you see in the camps outside Calais? Jumping out of articulated lorries You don't see many women either. But then you probably ignore the fact they send the men first, then once they get settled the women, kids and parents follow. If there's one thing an economic migrant knows how to do well, it's how to work our system. They know minors get preferential treatment, which is why there are men in their 20s and even 30s passing themselves off as kids. No doubt that's rubbish though.. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/02/school-reports-asylum-seeker-pupil-amid-claims-adult/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Quote Are they all hiding in PRI? Quick, inform the police and immigration control! How do you know these things, you are amazing! Sadly, I have visited hospital A and E a few times recently. Shocked at the number on non-English speaking people there. No need for the sarcasm about immigration. I know far more than you about it. You are not amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Gordon R said: Sadly, I have visited hospital A and E a few times recently. Shocked at the number on non-English speaking people there. No need for the sarcasm about immigration. I know far more than you about it. You are not amazing. Henry knows ALL.. Sees ALL. He has the 'gift' 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 59 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Sadly, I have visited hospital A and E a few times recently. Shocked at the number on non-English speaking people there. No need for the sarcasm about immigration. I know far more than you about it. You are not amazing. Boo hoo, so sad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 I would have expected better of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 A local hospital in the Bolton area and one in Perthshire is not comparing apples to apples…….. Just saying🥴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, KB1 said: A local hospital in the Bolton area and one in Perthshire is not comparing apples to apples…….. Just saying🥴 Exactly, broad brushes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, KB1 said: A local hospital in the Bolton area and one in Perthshire is not comparing apples to apples…….. Just saying🥴 15 minutes ago, henry d said: Exactly, broad brushes... I don't think you're quite 'getting' that comment henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 If I had wanted to make a thing of it, I would have cited London or Stoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Our only hope will be google translator. الطبيب أحتاج مساعدة سقط رأسي altabib 'ahtaj musaeadat saqat rasi Edited November 15, 2019 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, oowee said: Our only hope will be google translator. الطبيب أحتاج مساعدة سقط رأسي altabib 'ahtaj musaeadat saqat rasi If that is Arabic it came back as.. ‘Doctor I need a trap my head fell’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 يمكننا إعادة رأسك لك هنا! 😂 A common problem in Saudi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, oowee said: Our only hope will be google translator. الطبيب أحتاج مساعدة سقط رأسي altabib 'ahtaj musaeadat saqat rasi Or an Australian points based system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 48 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I don't think you're quite 'getting' that comment henry. 👍🥴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 hours ago, KB1 said: 👍🥴 Oh I am, but the op was... 22 hours ago, Gordon R said: Try visiting a local hospital and then tell me that immigration is not a problem. Which is why I replied as I did, very broad brushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.