The Next General Election.

[henry d]

7 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I think there is a very rude awakening on the way, us plebs simply don't like the establishment shafting us the way they do and are looking forwards to showing it.

Revenge is a very powerful fuel.

Your rude awakening is that you only see it from your POV how will you defend yourself if Brexit goes pear-shaped and those disenfranchised by your political views want their revenge?

Just expanding Raja's idea of digging two graves.

Have a read of Paulo Freire's "conscientisation" from pedagogy of the oppressed.

[Rewulf]

29 minutes ago, henry d said:

Have a read of Paulo Freire's "conscientisation" from pedagogy of the oppressed.

Madre de dios! 

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Madre de dios! 

Is that some place you’re going to exile yourself to if and when Brexit goes all Pete     Tong and your Brexiteer followers on PW decide you’re next for the Hong Kong phooey? 🤪

[Scully]

40 minutes ago, henry d said:

Your rude awakening is that you only see it from your POV how will you defend yourself if Brexit goes pear-shaped and those disenfranchised by your political views want their revenge?

Just expanding Raja's idea of digging two graves.

 

Seriously? 😀

[SpringDon]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

The thing is though, I don't think anyone posting here with a Brexit Remain bias is particularly extreme, even if it sometimes comes across that way, perhaps.

Regarding the points about people on benefits who use the system, the counter point was made about self employed people (and by implication larger firms and corporations) who do not contribute their fair share to society either. It was raised as a contrasting view / balancing and not targeted directly at anyone in particular.

Hate is a strong word, from a personal perspective I have the utmost respect for people like Rewulf and John who have shared views constructively and engaged in debate - I would happily break bread with them and / or buy them a pint or two.

Unfortunately the slinging of bile has become somewhat normalised by both the media, politicians and people on internet forums who, through personal experiences in their home and professional lives, don't really know how to engage in debate, logic and rhetoric without making it personal.

Careful, soon you might be suggesting anyone not in favour of no deal is a remainer.

Extreme is does not have a fixed definition. It can be vests and vans but it could also  be considered to be fixed dogmatic position. Names, labels and accusations are not debate and shouldn’t really be normalised. It’s not very nice and doesn’t move the situation forward.

[JohnfromUK]

10 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I have the utmost respect for people like Rewulf and John who have shared views constructively and engaged in debate - I would happily break bread with them and / or buy them a pint or two.

Thank you, both for the comment above, and the healthy constructive debate.

[Rewulf]

Horrifying 😱

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/angela-smith-exit-payment

[TIGHTCHOKE]

21 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Horrifying 😱

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/angela-smith-exit-payment

Truly a woman of principle!

[Rewulf]

47 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Truly a woman of principle!

Another one, jumping before being pushed. 

 

[oowee]

Tory plan to build 200000 homes for first time buyers made in 2014. Number built zero. Awesome achievement. Incredible to feat to be able to do so little for so long. Truly breathtaking. What lame policy are they selling this time? 

In SA every year there are protests about the performance of the ANC and they still get voted in. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Another one, jumping before being pushed. 

 

Dominic Grieve next?

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

Tory plan to build 200000 homes for first time buyers made in 2014. Number built zero. Awesome achievement. Incredible to feat to be able to do so little for so long. Truly breathtaking. What lame policy are they selling this time? 

In SA every year there are protests about the performance of the ANC and they still get voted in. 

I wasn't aware the tories built houses? 

Local councils can, but they squander their budgets on follies most of the time, while giving green belt away to luxury House developers. 

At the end of the day, it's at best a side issue, really a great big red herring. 

We need more houses, but no one wants to pay for the type needed, when they are likely going to end up as another benefits street. 

But let me guess, labour have a plan..... 

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I wasn't aware the tories built houses? 

Local councils can, but they squander their budgets on follies most of the time, while giving green belt away to luxury House developers. 

At the end of the day, it's at best a side issue, really a great big red herring. 

We need more houses, but no one wants to pay for the type needed, when they are likely going to end up as another benefits street. 

But let me guess, labour have a plan..... 

Will the Tories have a plan? Probably best not too then at least they will be able to deliver it with confidence.  

 

28 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Dominic Grieve next?

Alun Cairns next? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

Alun Cairns next? 

Hopefully!

DRAIN the SWAMP!

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Dominic Grieve next?

I heard he was standing as an independent.

[oowee]

46 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I heard he was standing as an independent.

I thought that too. I hope he sticks with it 

[Scully]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Truly a woman of principle!

Their lack of principle is what many of them have in common. It warms the cockles of my heart to see them go. 🙂

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Tory plan to build 200000 homes for first time buyers made in 2014. Number built zero. Awesome achievement. Incredible to feat to be able to do so little for so long. Truly breathtaking. What lame policy are they selling this time? 

In SA every year there are protests about the performance of the ANC and they still get voted in. 

I wonder who’s building them then? Quite a few gone up around here. 🤔

[Raja Clavata]

On 04/11/2019 at 22:11, SpringDon said:

Extreme is does not have a fixed definition. It can be vests and vans but it could also  be considered to be fixed dogmatic position. Names, labels and accusations are not debate and shouldn’t really be normalised. It’s not very nice and doesn’t move the situation forward.

Again, I agree with you. I don't know at what point you got involved in the discussions on PW related to Brexit but I was a relative late comer. It was obvious from the tone of the thread that most posters were advocates on leave with remain very much in the minority (which is aligned with my perception of where the majority of shooting folk would sit on the issue).

When I first started posting I was basically told that my views were not welcome here and that I should not post / go somewhere else. A small element, rather than arguing against the views being expressed attacked the person and character of the poster from day one. That's pretty shabby form in my book. Some would clearly have these threads as a leaver only discussion. Not happening.

 

[ditchman]

The Green party has anounced that it will spend   a £100 billion/year on the climate................like woooow.....that is staggering.........there wont be any money left for a packet of smarties................do they assume the whole British electorate have the numerical skills of Diane Abbott ??

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, ditchman said:

The Green party has anounced that it will spend   a £100 billion/year on the climate................like woooow.....that is staggering.........there wont be any money left for a packet of smarties................do they assume the whole British electorate have the numerical skills of Diane Abbott ??

The sort of people who vote Green have no conception of money or money management - and neither are they interested.  Money is something you borrow from a bank, or simply 'take' from someone/some organisation 'rich'

[ditchman]

10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The sort of people who vote Green have no conception of money or money management - and neither are they interested.  Money is something you borrow from a bank, or simply 'take' from someone/some organisation 'rich'

its like leaving the EU/Brexit twice / year on a bad deal....every year.............

[Raja Clavata]

33 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The sort of people who vote Green have no conception of money or money management - and neither are they interested.  Money is something you borrow from a bank, or simply 'take' from someone/some organisation 'rich'

Or the sort of people who are fed up with the two main parties, don't like the Lib Dems and aren't in favour of Brexit. Bit of a broad brush statement above? - I know a few Greens who have more money than they know what to do with.

One of the recent polls suggested climate policy would play a significant part in how the majority of UK public will vote, don't know if that's really the case but the Greens are playing to their strengths. I'm sure even they don't think it will really be £100B though.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Or the sort of people who are fed up with the two main parties, don't like the Lib Dems and aren't in favour of Brexit. Bit of a broad brush statement above? - I know a few Greens who have more money than they know what to do with.

One of the recent polls suggested climate policy would play a significant part in how the majority of UK public will vote, don't know if that's really the case but the Greens are playing to their strengths. I'm sure even they don't think it will really be £100B though.

Which is sort of what John was saying. 

People who struggle to make ends meet, have little time to worry about 2mm sea level rises, or the fact the UK might get a little bit warmer in 50 years time. 

Most of your advocates of anthropological climate change are rather comfortable financially, or have parents who are. They try to sell the new religion to the poorer classes with little success. 

The greens therefore will always be a niche party, simply due to the fact that most people can't afford their policies or doctrine. 

Sightly off topic, but the latest 'expert' view on sea level rise predicts, sea levels will continue to rise for the next 300 years ANYWAY, no matter what we do. 

But still say its all down to man, and his annoying habit of existing. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/06/sea-level-rise-centuries-climate-crisis

[Scully]

21 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Or the sort of people who are fed up with the two main parties, don't like the Lib Dems and aren't in favour of Brexit. Bit of a broad brush statement above? - I know a few Greens who have more money than they know what to do with.

One of the recent polls suggested climate policy would play a significant part in how the majority of UK public will vote, don't know if that's really the case but the Greens are playing to their strengths. I'm sure even they don't think it will really be £100B though.

Having worked in the ‘green’ housing industry for a long time, I can agree there are many greens out there with serious money. Like I’ve said, to seriously ‘go green’ requires serious money.

Im well aware of the fact that many are serious hypocrites also. 

[JohnfromUK]

26 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Bit of a broad brush statement above? - I know a few Greens who have more money than they know what to do with.

I perhaps didn't put it well; The type people I am thinking of don't really understand the 'value' - they may have lots of money - or little money, but they don't really look at how it is managed/spent.

It is the same on other things - I know people who claim to be 'green' and do 'green' things like have expensive electric cars, have installed (very) expensive heat pump heating systems, use smart bags rather than plastic, take cups to Starbucks to re-use etc.  They also have several foreign holidays a year - all flown - a Range Rover for the longer journeys, and things like a patio heater, heated pool and multiple log burners in the house buying 'kiln dried' logs!

If they actually understood their 'carbon signature' it would be alarmingly high.  But being wealthy, value has little meaning for them.