JohnfromUK Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, oowee said: Yep i was hearing on radio today suggestions it might in part have been faked. The press have a record of 'faked' pictures, I remember the one with Corbyn sat on the floor in a train with the caption implying that he had to sit there as there were no seats; it later emerged that he had a seat with his entourage, and had briefly left it and huddled up on the floor for the photo. There are no doubt numerous examples on both sides. Typical politician integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 Quote Given that non EEA migrants are ineligable and EEA migrants are required to pass the habitual residence test and the genuine and effective work appraisal I suspect, if any its insignificant. You clearly believe differently and I look forward to seeing your data source, if you have any. I look forward to you, or indeed anyone, putting a figure on the number of illegals in the country and the number using the NHS. It won't happen, but you demand data from others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, henry d said: Here you go £2300 per annum net more than the average UK adult does Utter BS. Most EU migrants are low wage, so barely pay any tax. Most EU migrants claim tax credits and child benefit. Net migration in the hundreds of thousands EVERY YEAR, and its the tories fault because the NHS, schools and housing is struggling? Yet you can find data to say that uncontrolled migration is a financial benefit? You need to go back to school and do some simple economics, and stop believing what left wing think tanks come up with to justify the obvious problems this country faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, henry d said: Here you go £2300 per annum net more than the average UK adult does I have paid into nhs all my working life as has most uk adults when are immigrants eligible to draw from the NHS ? genuine question . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gordon R said: I look forward to you, or indeed anyone, putting a figure on the number of illegals in the country and the number using the NHS. It won't happen, but you demand data from others. 600 thousand was the figure put up by the LSE with 3000 using the NHS a figure shared with the home office. If they are illegal how would they be recorded? If there is no data then how can it be posted? looking forward to seeing something presented that does not exist is surely an act of faith. I am pleased to see you have faith in my skills on google but I am not a miracle worker. I tend to believe more in tangible concepts rather than faith based imagery. By contrast Mice is blaming the collapse of the NHS on an overload from migration. Indeed he has gone so far as to base his vote for Brexit largely on migration issues. Surely with such bold assumptions he must have some evidence for such a claim. Unless he too was basing his assertions on faith rather than substance. 4 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Utter BS. Most EU migrants are low wage, so barely pay any tax. Most EU migrants claim tax credits and child benefit. Net migration in the hundreds of thousands EVERY YEAR, and its the tories fault because the NHS, schools and housing is struggling? Yet you can find data to say that uncontrolled migration is a financial benefit? You need to go back to school and do some simple economics, and stop believing what left wing think tanks come up with to justify the obvious problems this country faces. More faith based assumptions? Here you go some evidence Here you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just now, scutt said: I have paid into nhs all my working life as has most uk adults when are immigrants eligible to draw from the NHS ? genuine question . I'm sure all those lovely Romanian gypsies on the London Underground, entertaining commuters with their squeeze boxes, trumpets and pull along speakers whilst belting out the same 'Oh when the Saints, go marching in' and holding out a cup for donations are all contributing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 Maybe it's time we moved to a truly cashless society, then we'd have a much better chance of ensuring that everyone who should be contributing is and those who get contributions from tax payers aren't taking cash in hand from elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, oowee said: 600 thousand was the figure put up by the LSE with 3000 using the NHS a figure shared with the home office. If they are illegal how would they be recorded? If there is no data then how can it be posted? looking forward to seeing something presented that does not exist is surely an act of faith. I am pleased to see you have faith in my skills on google but I am not a miracle worker. I tend to believe more in tangible concepts rather than faith based imagery. By contrast Mice is blaming the collapse of the NHS on an overload from migration. Indeed he has gone so far as to base his vote for Brexit largely on migration issues. Surely with such bold assumptions he must have some evidence for such a claim. Unless he too was basing his assertions on faith rather than substance. More faith based assumptions? Here you go some evidence Here you go Same source as Henry's. Check out who oxford economics are, who funds them. Their figures are plucked out the air fantasy, they give themselves a fancy name and you lap it up as gospel 😂 Even your usual favorite full fact can't come up with an EU migrational fiscal benefit. But let's be honest, the OE report basically says migration is propping up UK finances, do you believe that's true? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Penelope said: I'm sure all those lovely Romanian gypsies on the London Underground, entertaining commuters with their squeeze boxes, trumpets and pull along speakers whilst belting out the same 'Oh when the Saints, go marching in' and holding out a cup for donations are all contributing. Same as the British ones who have been doing it since the year dot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, henry d said: Same as the British ones who have been doing it since the year dot... The British ones are our problem. Any others should NOT be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: The British ones are our problem. Any others should NOT be! Pretty poor ethics, what have we done about "our" buskers? Why should we single out someone who has come here through the EU free movement of workers rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, henry d said: Pretty poor ethics, what have we done about "our" buskers? Why should we single out someone who has come here through the EU free movement of workers rules? Because people from here are our problem, why should people not from here be our problem. No one should be able to come into the UK and sponge. We have enough of our own spongers we don't need others from elsewhere. And I include the free use of the NHS as sponging. Anyone not born in the UK should be required to have medical insurance to enter the UK. British Tax payers have an obligation to look after our own spongers, we have absolutely NO obligation to look after anyone else's, although our governments seem to think we have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: No one should be able to come into the UK and sponge. True, are you therefore inferring that they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, henry d said: True, are you therefore inferring that they are? Absolutely, anyone who receives benefits who isn't born in the UK is here sponging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: The British ones are our problem. Any others should NOT be! Where are gypsies from? 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Same source as Henry's. Check out who oxford economics are, who funds them. Their figures are plucked out the air fantasy, they give themselves a fancy name and you lap it up as gospel 😂 Even your usual favorite full fact can't come up with an EU migrational fiscal benefit. But let's be honest, the OE report basically says migration is propping up UK finances, do you believe that's true? Really? It was the same source as I copied it from Henry's post. It's better data than I have seen otherwise. Even if you dispute the source it's pretty likely that EU visitors here are more likely to work than no. The proportion working is likely to be higher than the proportion of UK work eligible adults working. Why? Because they generally arrive with fewer resources and need to find work quickly, they have a reputation for work hard, they are generally higher skilled and highly motivated. They also unable to claim benefits immediately because if restrictions in place from DWP. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary (headlines from the sun are not evidence) the full fact data looks far more plausible than simply shouting from the sidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 Nice to see this has rumbled on, I've just spent half an hour googling, struggling with bad internet and I'm not great at looking for this kind of info. So 4.4 billion added great👍 13.6 billion loss bad. Preston said 14 percent, probably a lot at college but 50% in the above areas!!! https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/public-services-infrastructure This site has some good info, but I'm sure others can put up a similar one saying the opposite. Like I said @oowee and @henry d will disagree. Why do the immigrants travel across Europe and risk crossing the channel in dinghys? To get to the land of milk and honey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, oowee said: Where are gypsies from? Most of the ones in the UK, Ireland! Not sure what that has to do with British buskers. Edited December 10, 2019 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, oowee said: Where are gypsies from? The UK, Ireland, Romania It was the same source as I copied it from Henry's post. It's better data than I have seen otherwise. Even if you dispute the source it's pretty likely that EU visitors here are more likely to work than no. The proportion working is likely to be higher than the proportion of UK work eligible adults working. Why? Because they generally arrive with fewer resources and need to find work quickly, they have a reputation for work hard, they are generally higher skilled and highly motivated. They also unable to claim benefits immediately because if restrictions in place from DWP. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary (headlines from the sun are not evidence) the full fact data looks far more plausible than simply shouting from the sidelines. Not disputing they work. But they work mostly low paid jobs, OR do the 16 hrs a week tax credit job. They do NOT contribute greatly in tax revenues , and your think tank has no hard evidence to prove otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 I was supposed to add, the areas with 50% of population with non uk born residents are obviously growing, how much pressure does this add to the infrastructure? How many other areas are similar with pressure on schools, nhs transport, housing. This is why Brexit was such a big deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 So based on such scant evidence it would be fair to say that you were in fact deluded in your decision to vote Brexit based upon such flawed and poorly sampled evidence? Even the evidence presented suggests a tax / costs neutral position for those from the EEA. At best maybe your decision was based upon faith. 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: Not disputing they work. But they work mostly low paid jobs, OR do the 16 hrs a week tax credit job. They do NOT contribute greatly in tax revenues , and your think tank has no hard evidence to prove otherwise. There is no evidence for this. Indeed there is no logical argument for suggesting this. If they EU migrants just wanted to come and scrounge why not stay at home and scrounge of their family, take advantage of the support network. It looks to me like more shouting from the sidelines and like Mice based on some flawed belief structure? 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 I can fully understand that someone votes Brexit because they want Britain or indeed England all to themselves but you may find it helpful to confront these fears and try to understand their origins. This may help. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/1/28/14425658/fear-of-refugees-explained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, oowee said: So based on such scant evidence it would be fair to say that you were in fact deluded in your decision to vote Brexit based upon such flawed and poorly sampled evidence? Even the evidence presented suggests a tax / costs neutral position for those from the EEA. At best maybe your decision was based upon faith I don't think so, and neither did the other 17.4 million voters, there was plenty of good information put out during the run up to the vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, oowee said: There is no evidence for this. Indeed there is no logical argument for suggesting this. If they EU migrants just wanted to come and scrounge why not stay at home and scrounge of their family, take advantage of the support network. It looks to me like more shouting from the sidelines and like Mice based on some flawed belief structure Give me strength ! Ask your wife what the social security situations like in her home country, and is the UK one better or worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, oowee said: If they EU migrants just wanted to come and scrounge why not stay at home and scrounge of their family, take advantage of the support network. Perhaps the free healthcare plays the biggest part! I've already stated that in my opinion it is the biggest driver in so many wanting to come to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Mice! said: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/public-services-infrastructure This site has some good info, but I'm sure others can put up a similar one saying the opposite. Like I said @oowee and @henry d will disagree. Yeah, checked out the population growth "paper" and it is riddled with bad stats, they use UK stats then compare with England & Wales only stats, however the future is rosy; The population of the world is going to crash... 38 minutes ago, Mice! said: Why do the immigrants travel across Europe and risk crossing the channel in dinghys? To get to the land of milk and honey. Not so many as we used to get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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