Extreme pheasant shooting

[button]

10 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Well thats as clear as mud, nothing new there then.

If you would excuse me but i would just like to point out that your versions of reality base way to much emphasis on the individuals ability, and ignore yes ignore the science completely. Why do i say that?

  Because we got no patterns thats why! the whole world uses patterns as a way of evaluating a shotguns capability /efficiencey. But not you chaps you arer UNBELIEVABLE!.

 Cartridges are not special gun is a gun it needs to fit thats it multi chokes ok but your not telling us anything there. and loads need development anyway especially for the ranges you are talking to stand an earthly.

None of its adding up at all. And anecdotal chit chat about what might get this job done is all well and good but destracting us from the real task. HOW CAN THESE BIRDS BE RELIABLY KILLED AT 80 YARDS WITH THESE LOADS?

We need to see evidence real patterns or its just HOT AIR on the high shooters part. I think as i said before. These claims are born out of  poor real world range estimation a bit of peer pressure and clique acceptance tof these type of shots that would never be accepted in other sports like say wildfowling.

 

 

Go find a high bird shoot  and watch a quality team in action like Charlie T said earlier and see what can be done with your own eyes

Then say it can't

Have a good day

B

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, Blackpowder said:

That is very informative, I do think it could be dangerous  tin hats for the beaters.

Blackpowder

 

Exactly too dangerous even for sight use and stationar shots its effectively a slug up to a hundred and beyond. how can that be practical. i ask you.

A more practical option could be a flight control wad layout, these work better and at most ranges about only downside is you can not run them in ported chokes not that i use such chokes myself. Bbut to all intents and purposes they are a way of extending range yet at least having effective mid range performance .

Again i do not have a use for any such range increasing and i shoot a lot of fox sport shotgunning as well as rifle. So compared to game shooters i probably need more range but get by on conventional wadding.

Here is a ten bore with a wad cut into a flight control style wad by way of explanation. remember he is on a terror choke too. .720.

 

5 minutes ago, button said:

Go find a high bird shoot  and watch a quality team in action like Charlie T said earlier and see what can be done with your own eyes

Then say it can't

Have a good day

B

Winging out birds is not clean kills no responsible sportsman or woman would ever consider raising a gun to a living creature at anything over 60 real yards your deluding yourselves about the ability of your equipment or your skills or your range estimation is way off i strongly suspect the latter given your determination to flog this horse to death so vigorously.

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

The chedite 100metori cartridges are just a shrouded load they just put an LBC wad backwards over the load, this effectively gives you a slug up to about 80 yards then it sometimes falls away and deploys the shot.

pointless at any normal range and unreliable at 100 yard.

This video shows them on a good day. Playing with them and this idea cfor Fox with sighted shotgun i never got reliability or felt they were safe enough to conceder any way practical. this bloke sort of shows what happens ish but too risky and not effective close range and in use unreliable. Basicaly impractical in my opinion.

Really to get a load to 80 yards you need HW shot or TSS and then at least you will have a chance. But by the time you get it here  yourself its currently £60.45 a kilo loads 35 gram would work out at 2.25 for shot alone per round. so 20/25p for powder  10/15p for a case wad around 5p so with primers how ever you source them your not far off £715 a flat of 250.  any commercial firm over here would want a £1000 a flat i believe.

Would these reliably kill at 80 yards most probably but Why would you want to.?

 

At £55 +a bird cartridge cost is minimal 

shoot a lot of HW and TSS personally think it’s the way forward although fibre wads complicate things 

note the high/extreme bird shooting is 40 to60 yards 

there’s always going to be videos of someone doing a 80 yard one but the reality is 40 to 60 

[wymberley]

46 minutes ago, button said:

Simple, maximum range is where the one pulling the trigger is confident of a clean kill, obviously vary gun to gun wouldn't call it rocket science, don't even have to waste my time dissecting cartridges and counting the pellets thus allowing more time to practice and honing skill 

Have a good day 

ATB

B

Truly, well said with no more than just the necessary words as it can be taken that this would assume a truly aimed shot.

Now, could you kindly help me out as I'm a novice and want to shoot pheasant - cock and hen? I do understand that any effective range is dependent to a degree upon the cartridge so to help me decide which ones to choose and at what range I'm going to be able to shoot at, what is the minimum number of pellets should I be looking at in what I'm told is the central lethal area  of a pattern which I believe is about 20" in diameter - as I understand it this would be more critical for the hen - and what would be the minimum pellet energy necessary - again as I understand it, this relates more to the larger male bird?

I have done some preparatory reading and have seen one definition of a "baggable bird" in which I'm not interested and it was the description of this that attracted me to your definition. I also appreciate that with a shotgun there is no definitive answer to any specific question and that all answers are based on average findings. Also, to obtain the neccesary pellet numbers that you give I will need to probably take choke into account. If you can spare the time, I look forward with thanks to receiving your answers to the necessary energy and pattern density required. Just like you, I'm sure, I have no wish to inflict unnecessary pain and we are allowed to shoot because the act of killing in itself is not cruel. Cruelty is defined as the indifference to suffering and if we can not understand that then we need to be taken to task and I have no doubt that there are those out there who will do just that with the greatest determination and pleasure.

[lancer425]

25 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

At £55 +a bird cartridge cost is minimal 

shoot a lot of HW and TSS personally think it’s the way forward although fibre wads complicate things 

note the high/extreme bird shooting is 40 to60 yards 

there’s always going to be videos of someone doing a 80 yard one but the reality is 40 to 60 

I do not doubt the 40 to 60 at all and is typical of what i see, my only conection to game shooting is Grouse and just now  a local phesant shoot i have seen a few long shots over the years up in yorkshire and some have voiced they were 80 yards, but my range estimation after a lifetime in wild fowling as left me with no doubt that these claimed 80 yarders were as you say 40 to 60 in reality.  The 80 yard coment and blathering on into 99 yards is iresponsible and sending out the wrong signals to new shooters or those whom are perhaps more impressionable in our number.

  If a bird gets winged out ok just shut up about it move on its the gentlemans way of doing things. dont harp on about ability prowess when the science is just not there to back it up.Consider the winger a subject best not mentioned.

  Boasting because thats exactly what  these guys were doing is not the way.

To do this is the shooting equivelent of kissing and telling. its just not done.

Everybody knows its about 60 real yards tops just leave it at that is the best option.

 You just should not be entering in to trying for a kill over 60 yards period . Why on earth would you want to anyway. Clays do what you want its just bitchumen.

.One other point OF. Cost is irreverent just there to point out as i did in other sports lesser shots as in steel is capable of killing at max ranges normally encountered when choosing to shoot wildfowl 10ga or bigger loads for the bulky shot are needed perhaps .  The Heavyweight options need to be used as i state to improve sub ga performance, or make a more lethal load for a given situation, not to increase the range of whats there already by any significant range. Your opinion may vary.

Pushing range however you chose to do it in controled wildfowling will land any miscreants in hot water and rightly so.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by lancer425

[JJsDad]

55 minutes ago, button said:

Go find a high bird shoot  and watch a quality team in action like Charlie T said earlier and see what can be done with your own eyes

For someone who by their own admission has never attended a `high bird` shoot and seems to get most of their shooting experience by watching video`s I find your remarks quite remarkable. Charlie T evidently runs such a shoot and his comments are a form of advertising. Where these shoots are charging £50 upward per bird they have got to be able to produce something out of the normal. I am not suggesting he doesnt show high birds, he evidently does.

In the main, this thread is about the ethics of trying to `cleanly` kill birds at extreme range which can be taken to mean between 70 and 100 yards. I have in the past been on two high bird days and seen peoples averages (mine included) crash when birds are presented beyond about 60 yards. When the likes of Mr Digweed advises that 70 yards is the limit for reliable kills, I tend to listen. If you have to resort to 34 or 36g of 3 shot to bring down the occasional bird you really have to ask yourself if you are doing the sport any favours with all the adverse publicity that this type of shooting generates.

[button]

30 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

For someone who by their own admission has never attended a `high bird` shoot and seems to get most of their shooting experience by watching video`s I find your remarks quite remarkable. Charlie T evidently runs such a shoot and his comments are a form of advertising. Where these shoots are charging £50 upward per bird they have got to be able to produce something out of the normal. I am not suggesting he doesnt show high birds, he evidently does.

In the main, this thread is about the ethics of trying to `cleanly` kill birds at extreme range which can be taken to mean between 70 and 100 yards. I have in the past been on two high bird days and seen peoples averages (mine included) crash when birds are presented beyond about 60 yards. When the likes of Mr Digweed advises that 70 yards is the limit for reliable kills, I tend to listen. If you have to resort to 34 or 36g of 3 shot to bring down the occasional bird you really have to ask yourself if you are doing the sport any favours with all the adverse publicity that this type of shooting generates.

Remarkable? Have I ever stated I can do it? As I stated earlier maximum range is what the gun is confident of a clean kill, and i wouldnt personally go beyond 50 yards but I have accompanied good shots and therefore seen with my own eyes what they are capable of and the ranges they have consistently achieved clean kills at

Anyway must go YouTube calling 

[JJsDad]

14 minutes ago, button said:

Anyway must go YouTube calling 

To busy shooting or picking-up at this time of year to have time for watching video`s.

 

14 minutes ago, button said:

As I stated earlier maximum range is what the gun is confident of a clean kill,

  I wonder if the report by our resident extreme bird expert of a Gun killing a bird at a lazered 99 yards was very confident when he fired at it ? Or was he just willy waving in front of his pals ?  Thats double your self imposed range.

Edited November 22, 2019 by JJsDad

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

To busy shooting or picking-up at this time of year to have time for watching video`s.

 

  I wonder if the report by our resident extreme bird expert of a Gun killing a bird at a lazered 99 yards was very confident when he fired at it ? Or was he just willy waving in front of his pals ?  Thats double your self imposed range.

 

17 minutes ago, button said:

Remarkable? Have I ever stated I can do it? As I stated earlier maximum range is what the gun is confident of a clean kill, and i wouldnt personally go beyond 50 yards but I have accompanied good shots and therefore seen with my own eyes what they are capable of and the ranges they have consistently achieved clean kills at

Anyway must go YouTube calling 

No its not . Nothing to do with the persons ability or confidence, we are no way past the basic physics of the matter yet, we got no evidence. And any evidence we have gathered (by ourselves) as thrown up zero reasons for us to draw any other conclusion but BS willy waving call it what you will.

Come up with the goods and we can look at this again. but as it is its Bad range overestimation coupled with a few flukey shots end of story. Bring some real meat to this table or sit in the corner.

[button]

1 minute ago, lancer425 said:

 

No its not . Nothing to do with the persons ability or confidence, we are no way past the basic physics of the matter yet, we got no evidence. And any evidence we have gathered (by ourselves) as thrown up zero reasons for us to draw any other conclusion but BS willy waving call it what you will.

Come up with the goods and we can look at this again. but as it is its Bad range overestimation coupled with a few flukey shots end of story. Bring some real meat to this table or sit in the corner.

Let's agree to differ I know what I have seen

[wymberley]

15 minutes ago, button said:

Let's agree to differ I know what I have seen

Old saying:

He who reads forgets,

He who sees remembers and

He who does knows.

Can you remember enough from what you've seen to answer my couple of straightforward points?

[button]

Just now, wymberley said:

Old saying:

He who reads forgets,

He who sees remembers and

He who does knows.

Can you remember enough from what you've seen to answer my couple of straightforward points?

Remind me?

[wymberley]

2 minutes ago, button said:

Remind me?

See my previous post a little further up this page. Shouldn't take you more than a minute or two if you would

[button]

5 minutes ago, wymberley said:

See my previous post a little further up this page. Shouldn't take you more than a minute or two if you would

Really your asking me? your the resident expert as you have proved on numerous occasions with superior knowledge on all matters ballistic, and once again you have proved your superior knowledge, well done, I've never gone that deep into as I'm sure the biggest% on here haven't, you learn to shoot and find what cartridges work for what you are doing

 

[Perazzishot]

My final word on all this (I think).

I've read all the posts and references made and supposed facts.

From my experience!!!

Practice makes you better and when you are standing on these shoots 3-4 days a week spending the amount of money I the rest of our team do on our shooting annually you wouldn't be going for the odd fluke, and we wouldn't be achieving our 300-500 bags if everything being killed was a fluke.

People turn up on our teams, like yesterday a chap shot 4 birds for 400 shots he arrived thinking he was a decent competent shot who fancied challenging himself and treated himself to the day,. The rest of the team averaged 6:1 on some of the highest fastest stuff I've shot this season.

We have lots of experienced good shooters and I'm not naming any names but we see them struggle as we all did, but as you do more you learn to read and judge where to take these birds on. Many many birds killed dead in the air but also falling from that height also kills them on ground impact. I see no more wounded on these days by our team than I do on standard pheasant days.

However I understand the concern from some.

My points about cartridges, bores pattern results from Robert has helped and we as a team and many others who shoot high stuff regularly have adapted our equipment to give the best opportunity of clean kills. Something you will hardly ever see on your local farm syndicate where it's a jolly boys outing who shoot anything that moves at any range with feathers and blood and guts everywhere. Trust me I've walked off shoots put my gun in the slip and driven home. Have no desire to be part of that.

It'll need to be agreed to be disagreed that pheasants can and are killed cleanly and on a good ratio above 60 yds with the right team underneath them who are getting the chance to do it on a very regular basis.

A little like a very good pigeon shot I know and has been spoken about on here before whose average can be as good as 9 out of 10, far better than I could I ever get near, but then again I'm not shooting 150+ pigeons 5-6 days a week. 

I'll zip up my fly and let you boys discuss the bits of paper and scroll the internet to tell me I'm wrong and I'm a liar but hey ho, our team had a right chuckle at some of the comments and references yesterday so thanks for the added entertainment you have all provided with your neyseyer comments.

Enjoy your shooting ladies and gentleman. For those who prefer sitting on their behookies maybe get out and so some shooting rather than being a keyboard expert! Just a thought!

Edited November 22, 2019 by Perazzishot

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, button said:

Really your asking me? your the resident expert as you have proved on numerous occasions with superior knowledge on all matters ballistic, and once again you have proved your superior knowledge, well done, I've never gone that deep into as I'm sure the biggest% on here haven't, you learn to shoot and find what cartridges work for what you are doing

 

I am sure the biggest % on here as you put it wont be advocating taking shots at pheasant at 80 yards either.

So doing as you say learning to shoot finding a cartridge which works for what you are doing. OK! But these chaps are advocating clean kills at 80 yards we are prepared to take them at their word as long as they can prove/ show up what they have been doing these 80 yard phesants with, then WE CAN LEARN.

We need evidence real evidence not he said it happened . Prove the gun load is up to the task that is all that is needed. .

 

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

My final word on all this (I think).

I've read all the posts and references made and supposed facts.

From my experience!!!

Practice makes you better and when you are standing on these shoots 3-4 days a week spending the amount of money I the rest of our team do on our shooting annually you wouldn't be going for the odd fluke, and we wouldn't be achieving our 300-500 bags if everything being killed was a fluke.

People turn up on our teams, like yesterday a chap shot 4 birds for 400 shots he arrived thinking he was a decent competent shot who fancied challenging himself and treated himself to the day,. The rest of the team averaged 6:1 on some of the highest fastest stuff I've shot this season.

We have lots of experienced good shooters and I'm not naming any names but we see them struggle as we all did, but as you do more you learn to read and judge where to take these birds on. Many many birds killed dead in the air but also falling from that height also kills them on ground impact. I see no more wounded on these days by our team than I do on standard pheasant days.

However I understand the concern from some.

My points about cartridges, bores pattern results from Robert has helped and we as a team and many others who shoot high stuff regularly have adapted our equipment to give the best opportunity of clean kills. Something you will hardly ever see on your local farm syndicate where it's a jolly boys outing who shoot anything that moves at any range with feathers and blood and guts everywhere. Trust me I've walked off shoots put my gun gun in the slip and driven home. Have no desire to be part of that.

It'll need to be agreed to be disagreed that pheasants can and are killed cleanly and on a good ratio above 60 yds with the right team underneath them who are getting the chance to do it on a very regular basis.

A little like a very good pigeon I know and has been spoken about on here before whose average can be as good as 9 out of 10, far better than I could I ever get near, but then again I'm not shooting 150+ pigeons 5-6 days a week. 

I'll zip up my fly and let you boys discuss the bits of paper and scroll the internet to tell me I'm wrong and I'm a liar but hey ho, our team had a right chuckle at some of the comments and references yesterday so thanks for the added entertainment you have all provided with your neyseyer comments.

Enjoy your shooting ladies and gentleman. For those who prefer sitting on their behookies maybe get out and so some shooting rather than being a keyboard expert! Just a thought!

You just confirmed my initial thoughts on your comments you can not judge range to save your life.

 no other logical explanation to this Poor range estimation.

[Hamster]

2 hours ago, JJsDad said:

For someone who by their own admission has never attended a `high bird` shoot and seems to get most of their shooting experience by watching video`s I find your remarks quite remarkable. Charlie T evidently runs such a shoot and his comments are a form of advertising. Where these shoots are charging £50 upward per bird they have got to be able to produce something out of the normal. I am not suggesting he doesnt show high birds, he evidently does.

In the main, this thread is about the ethics of trying to `cleanly` kill birds at extreme range which can be taken to mean between 70 and 100 yards. I have in the past been on two high bird days and seen peoples averages (mine included) crash when birds are presented beyond about 60 yards. When the likes of Mr Digweed advises that 70 yards is the limit for reliable kills, I tend to listen. If you have to resort to 34 or 36g of 3 shot to bring down the occasional bird you really have to ask yourself if you are doing the sport any favours with all the adverse publicity that this type of shooting generates.

👍

[wymberley]

19 hours ago, button said:

Really your asking me? your the resident expert as you have proved on numerous occasions with superior knowledge on all matters ballistic, and once again you have proved your superior knowledge, well done, I've never gone that deep into as I'm sure the biggest% on here haven't, you learn to shoot and find what cartridges work for what you are doing

 

I am not an expert. No one shedding any where near as many brain cells as I am daily can be. However, I do shoot live quarry and I've always tried to ensure that I can do so in a safe, considerate and sportsmanlike fashion BEFORE picking up the gun. Perhaps that's not strictly true owing to an out of body experience some years back when I found myself stood on a table in a classroom at the Norfolk College Of Agriculture looking down on me telling the first ever cl;ass of The Proficiency Award Scheme run by BASC in that county that I and my team will not be able to answer every question when asked but we will get the answer as soon as possible. Big mistake. You can have no idea of the questions that can be asked by a bunch of students that want to be where they are and especially by the youngsters. I learned far more as a BASC HEO than I've learned elsewhere while shooting - and if the truth be known, benefitted more than the students.

[grrclark]

4 hours ago, button said:

Go find a high bird shoot  and watch a quality team in action like Charlie T said earlier and see what can be done with your own eyes

Then say it can't

Have a good day

B

The problem is that, like a great many things, it’s very often not the most capable who participate in these “extreme pheasant” days, but those who can afford it regardless of their base talent and ability.

Some of course have both deep enough pockets and the talent to maximise the opportunity of putting the pellets in the right vicinity, but regrettably very many more don’t.

I have watched plenty game shooters shoot at very straightforward clays on sim’ days and other events and there are very many that if I could I would not allow to even lift their gun to live quarry as they are appallingly bad shots, but sadly if they can afford it they can do it.  Perhaps the saving grace is that they miss most everything by huge margins.

I have seen some of those same shooters boasting of taking “extreme” days and my heart sinks.

Clay targets can never be a true replica of live birds, however shotgun shooting at it’s simplest is an ability to read line and forward allowance, if shooters are incapable of doing that consistently on clay targets with a wholly repeatable line and speed then why should they suddenly become top drawer shots on live quarry that vary infinitely?

Good shots are good shots, bad or poor shots don’t magically become good because what they are aiming at has feathers and wings.  Sadly there is too many whose wallets and ambitions far exceed their abilities, but think shooting on a prestige estate or on a neighbouring peg to a big name affords them some sort of status by association.

 

[motty]

1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

My final word on all this (I think).

I've read all the posts and references made and supposed facts.

From my experience!!!

Practice makes you better and when you are standing on these shoots 3-4 days a week spending the amount of money I the rest of our team do on our shooting annually you wouldn't be going for the odd fluke, and we wouldn't be achieving our 300-500 bags if everything being killed was a fluke.

People turn up on our teams, like yesterday a chap shot 4 birds for 400 shots he arrived thinking he was a decent competent shot who fancied challenging himself and treated himself to the day,. The rest of the team averaged 6:1 on some of the highest fastest stuff I've shot this season.

We have lots of experienced good shooters and I'm not naming any names but we see them struggle as we all did, but as you do more you learn to read and judge where to take these birds on. Many many birds killed dead in the air but also falling from that height also kills them on ground impact. I see no more wounded on these days by our team than I do on standard pheasant days.

However I understand the concern from some.

My points about cartridges, bores pattern results from Robert has helped and we as a team and many others who shoot high stuff regularly have adapted our equipment to give the best opportunity of clean kills. Something you will hardly ever see on your local farm syndicate where it's a jolly boys outing who shoot anything that moves at any range with feathers and blood and guts everywhere. Trust me I've walked off shoots put my gun in the slip and driven home. Have no desire to be part of that.

It'll need to be agreed to be disagreed that pheasants can and are killed cleanly and on a good ratio above 60 yds with the right team underneath them who are getting the chance to do it on a very regular basis.

A little like a very good pigeon shot I know and has been spoken about on here before whose average can be as good as 9 out of 10, far better than I could I ever get near, but then again I'm not shooting 150+ pigeons 5-6 days a week. 

I'll zip up my fly and let you boys discuss the bits of paper and scroll the internet to tell me I'm wrong and I'm a liar but hey ho, our team had a right chuckle at some of the comments and references yesterday so thanks for the added entertainment you have all provided with your neyseyer comments.

Enjoy your shooting ladies and gentleman. For those who prefer sitting on their behookies maybe get out and so some shooting rather than being a keyboard expert! Just a thought!

 

1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

My final word on all this (I think).

I've read all the posts and references made and supposed facts.

From my experience!!!

Practice makes you better and when you are standing on these shoots 3-4 days a week spending the amount of money I the rest of our team do on our shooting annually you wouldn't be going for the odd fluke, and we wouldn't be achieving our 300-500 bags if everything being killed was a fluke.

People turn up on our teams, like yesterday a chap shot 4 birds for 400 shots he arrived thinking he was a decent competent shot who fancied challenging himself and treated himself to the day,. The rest of the team averaged 6:1 on some of the highest fastest stuff I've shot this season.

We have lots of experienced good shooters and I'm not naming any names but we see them struggle as we all did, but as you do more you learn to read and judge where to take these birds on. Many many birds killed dead in the air but also falling from that height also kills them on ground impact. I see no more wounded on these days by our team than I do on standard pheasant days.

However I understand the concern from some.

My points about cartridges, bores pattern results from Robert has helped and we as a team and many others who shoot high stuff regularly have adapted our equipment to give the best opportunity of clean kills. Something you will hardly ever see on your local farm syndicate where it's a jolly boys outing who shoot anything that moves at any range with feathers and blood and guts everywhere. Trust me I've walked off shoots put my gun in the slip and driven home. Have no desire to be part of that.

It'll need to be agreed to be disagreed that pheasants can and are killed cleanly and on a good ratio above 60 yds with the right team underneath them who are getting the chance to do it on a very regular basis.

A little like a very good pigeon shot I know and has been spoken about on here before whose average can be as good as 9 out of 10, far better than I could I ever get near, but then again I'm not shooting 150+ pigeons 5-6 days a week. 

I'll zip up my fly and let you boys discuss the bits of paper and scroll the internet to tell me I'm wrong and I'm a liar but hey ho, our team had a right chuckle at some of the comments and references yesterday so thanks for the added entertainment you have all provided with your neyseyer comments.

Enjoy your shooting ladies and gentleman. For those who prefer sitting on their behookies maybe get out and so some shooting rather than being a keyboard expert! Just a thought!

I believe it when you say that you see less wounded birds on your shoots. I think this is because you would dismiss a "lightly" pricked bird as missed altogether. Also, judging by what I have seen of most of this shooting, very little attention is paid to the last bird - dead, missed or pricked, as the gun will be looking immediately for the next bird.

[Perazzishot]

48 minutes ago, motty said:

 

I believe it when you say that you see less wounded birds on your shoots. I think this is because you would dismiss a "lightly" pricked bird as missed altogether. Also, judging by what I have seen of most of this shooting, very little attention is paid to the last bird - dead, missed or pricked, as the gun will be looking immediately for the next bird.

Trust me Motty after shooting for 40 years I'm usually pretty good at seeing what gets hit and what doesn't, and shock/strike factor is far more noticeable with a number 3 or 4 shot!

However I'm not denying same as on every shoot some birds will take a strike in a non vital area. But as stated I see that on every shoot, however you tell a lot of guns and they have absolutely no idea they have hit a bird, even when its clearly visible with feathers coming off. Which leads to a problem when the pickers up who may only be 1 or 2 ask if they have any to pick and they say yes 3 dead over there but fail to tell them about the other 4 which have clearly been hit and won't be going far once they have landed.

 

[andrewluke]

9 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

Trust me Motty after shooting for 40 years I'm usually pretty good at seeing what gets hit and what doesn't, and shock/strike factor is far more noticeable with a number 3 or 4 shot!

However I'm not denying same as on every shoot some birds will take a strike in a non vital area. But as stated I see that on every shoot, however you tell a lot of guns and they have absolutely no idea they have hit a bird, even when its clearly visible with feathers coming off. Which leads to a problem when the pickers up who may only be 1 or 2 ask if they have any to pick and they say yes 3 dead over there but fail to tell them about the other 4 which have clearly been hit and won't be going far once they have landed.

 

but i thought there was a kill or miss and nothing inbetween

[Perazzishot]

2 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

but i thought there was a kill or miss and nothing inbetween

who said that? Not me I'm not that naive I've already stated the pickers up work a lot harder with big teams of dogs to recover all the birds as they are worth £60 in the game cart.

Not worth so much on smaller farm/syndicate/commercial shoots where you have to pay 50p to dispose of them.

 

[marsh man]

55 minutes ago, motty said:

 

I believe it when you say that you see less wounded birds on your shoots. I think this is because you would dismiss a "lightly" pricked bird as missed altogether. Also, judging by what I have seen of most of this shooting, very little attention is paid to the last bird - dead, missed or pricked, as the gun will be looking immediately for the next bird.

I think to be fair to the op , in a earlier post he was saying the shoot have some first class teams of picker ups , we used to have one bloke who brought eight dogs , four were used in the morning and then the other four were used after dinner , the picker up's would notice most , although not all any pricked , leg down or wing tipped birds , this is not to say that some of the guns don't know when they have clipped a bird , but then again I have seen this at walk and stand and right the way through to the stately homes shoots .