Think I'm Going To Make It

[wymberley]

Consequently I'm not going to get annoyed, cause an argument or get accused of BASC bashing (again). I am somewhat confused by the conflicting reports that I've read, but that's fine as it's nothing to do with me. I can appreciate that the organisations which claim to support the game shooters do indeed have a problem which isn't going to go away. My body unilaterally decided to knock the game shootng on the head the season before this so I have no concerns in that respect especially as there was only the two of us and only we (or friends) ate what we shot.

Yep, in what is currently the major thread in this sub-forum, steel shot has again raised its head in a truly determined fashion. My certificates run out at the end of next year and I fgure just one more renewal should see me out with enough time at the end to dispose of the kit thus, I figure, avoiding any possible need to purchase any ammunition which involves the ferrous word.

This NTS topic is well covered in the latest two BASC magazines which Oppo dropped up earlier. The only point that I would make is if anyone has read the September/October issue is not to believe everything that you read and think for yourself regarding the need for what degree to increase steel shot sizes to match that of lead and also have a little look into what energy density is all about with regard to penetration.

[islandgun]

7 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Consequently I'm not going to get annoyed, cause an argument or get accused of BASC bashing (again). I am somewhat confused by the conflicting reports that I've read, but that's fine as it's nothing to do with me. I can appreciate that the organisations which claim to support the game shooters do indeed have a problem which isn't going to go away. My body unilaterally decided to knock the game shootng on the head the season before this so I have no concerns in that respect especially as there was only the two of us and only we (or friends) ate what we shot.

Yep, in what is currently the major thread in this sub-forum, steel shot has again raised its head in a truly determined fashion. My certificates run out at the end of next year and I fgure just one more renewal should see me out with enough time at the end to dispose of the kit thus, I figure, avoiding any possible need to purchase any ammunition which involves the ferrous word.

This NTS topic is well covered in the latest two BASC magazines which Oppo dropped up earlier. The only point that I would make is if anyone has read the September/October issue is not to believe everything that you read and think for yourself regarding the need for what degree to increase steel shot sizes to match that of lead and also have a little look into what energy density is all about with regard to penetration.

Thanks for that,  how are you liking your Beretta 20 bore ?  I like steel, better penetration, more spherical objects to the gram, tighter patterns. allegedly 

[wymberley]

9 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Thanks for that,  how are you liking your Beretta 20 bore ?  I like steel, better penetration, more spherical objects to the gram, tighter patterns. allegedly 

Delighted with it as is my step-son for whom I found an identical model. I can hit clays without thinking about it - all down to fit, of course. Haven't felt fit enough for live quarry - pigeon - yet, but am now getting there.

Yep, more balls and tighter patterns. But energy density rules, OK

[lancer425]

I do not want lead banned particularly, but if it goes it goes Steel is fine it kills geese and  Duck dead as dead things i can not see the problem. It wont effect me at all i use it most of the time these days on pigeons,  partridges phesant and rabbits not had a problem. i use it in a webley 700 a spanish sidelock and several old fixed choke older guns never designed for steel but they work fine on it.

 

[Farmboy91]

So are we all going to push for a cartridge buy back when they finally ban lead? 

[wymberley]

10 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I do not want lead banned particularly, but if it goes it goes Steel is fine it kills geese and  Duck dead as dead things i can not see the problem. It wont effect me at all i use it most of the time these days on pigeons,  partridges phesant and rabbits not had a problem. i use it in a webley 700 a spanish sidelock and several old fixed choke older guns never designed for steel but they work fine on it.

 

Yep, it works - haven't used it since the 80s when we used it through a couple of Brownings when coaching with the BASC. Where do you get your 12 bore 2&1/2" chambered ones?

3 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said:

So are we all going to push for a cartridge buy back when they finally ban lead? 

Why not indeed - and at current prices.

[islandgun]

17 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Delighted with it as is my step-son for whom I found an identical model. I can hit clays without thinking about it - all down to fit, of course. Haven't felt fit enough for live quarry - pigeon - yet, but am now getting there.

Yep, more balls and tighter patterns. But energy density rules, OK

steels fine, if kept within a decent range..😉

[Farmboy91]

2 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Yep, it works - haven't used it since the 80s when we used it through a couple of Brownings when coaching with the BASC. Where do you get your 12 bore 2&1/2" chambered ones?

Why not indeed - and at current prices.

In all seriousness, unless they gave a proper deadline, like two years id struggle to get through what I've got at my current rate 😂

 

[lancer425]

No idea i reload it you can not rely on the factories to give you what you need  .

Last factory steel i bought was NSI 32 gram a flat but that was a year or more ago now.

[Shearwater]

I recently saw 2 top shots go head to head on a shoot with metri 60 and 100's and have to say some impressive shooting but where do we go from here. . . .lazer sights/thermal loads!

I grew up back in the 80's when Eley Impact 6 shot lead was really the only option but everyone went about their business and the non-shooting people never knew what we did nor did we rub their face in it. . . . I must agree that we have to move on and agree 100% with we have to change from lead, however, understand the 'top shots' still want to be top shots and kill those high birds which others try/fail and just end up pricking the birds which is not nice to see

With lead use/big bags being an argument for the Anti's wouldn't it be sensible to diffuse them by using non-toxic loads, killing the birds and putting the food back into the food chain thus our sport is as humane as the chicken industry?

[lancer425]

Seen this film before.

[rbrowning2]

You are assuming that their will be some form of shooting still available by the time the lead shot ban comes in, with anti shooting growing at an alarming rate and the GL review coming again soon, for example only this week Reading University;

BASC is gravely disappointed that the university – an agricultural institution – has decided to end its relationship with the small, well-managed shoot on its land.

Then, how will clay shooting still be an international level playing field competition if some countries still allow lead and others do not.

We have anti shooting organisations that are not afraid to use what ever means they like with currently great success like the wild justice judicial review, inquiry into releasing  non-native game birds into the countryside yet shooting organisations are still pursuing a 1950s gentleman’s approach, we are doomed to fail at this time.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by rbrowning2

[welshwarrior]

Go to Holland leads been banned their clay shooter crack on and when ours visit they shoot steel.  

[motty]

1 hour ago, Shearwater said:

I recently saw 2 top shots go head to head on a shoot with metri 60 and 100's and have to say some impressive shooting but where do we go from here. . . .lazer sights/thermal loads!

I grew up back in the 80's when Eley Impact 6 shot lead was really the only option but everyone went about their business and the non-shooting people never knew what we did nor did we rub their face in it. . . . I must agree that we have to move on and agree 100% with we have to change from lead, however, understand the 'top shots' still want to be top shots and kill those high birds which others try/fail and just end up pricking the birds which is not nice to see

With lead use/big bags being an argument for the Anti's wouldn't it be sensible to diffuse them by using non-toxic loads, killing the birds and putting the food back into the food chain thus our sport is as humane as the chicken industry?

Game etc shot with lead should be allowed in the food chain. Lead is not harmful to humans in such small quantities.

[rbrowning2]

24 minutes ago, motty said:

Game etc shot with lead should be allowed in the food chain. Lead is not harmful to humans in such small quantities.

Unfortunately that’s not what the scientific evidence shows, their is no safe level of lead in the human body so not an argument we can expect to win.

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/lead-shot-game

[team tractor]

What happens if your old gun is not proofed ? 
.410 cartridges? I’ve never seen steel but are they available 

[figgy]

Not yet but if lead is banned they would be.

[Scully]

10 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Unfortunately that’s not what the scientific evidence shows, their is no safe level of lead in the human body so not an argument we can expect to win.

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/lead-shot-game

As I pointed out to Avery, despite the scientific evidence, history has shown that eating lead shot game in the amounts it is, and has been eaten, has had no detrimental effect on human health. 

[motty]

10 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Unfortunately that’s not what the scientific evidence shows, their is no safe level of lead in the human body so not an argument we can expect to win.

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/lead-shot-game

How many people do you know that have become ill after eating game?

Surely if it was that dangerous, lead should be banned already.

I think I read somewhere that there was more lead found in potatoes than game shot with lead.

[figgy]

Who been shooting the taties 😂

Lead is natural in the ground along with other metals.

Trouble we have is perceived danger by Joe public and the people who make the decision at the top.

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

As I pointed out to Avery, despite the scientific evidence, history has shown that eating lead shot game in the amounts it is, and has been eaten, has had no detrimental effect on human health. 

Interesting to see your visiting the avery site. I went on there for a few weeks but found it put me in such a foul mood that I had to stop.. his and his followers  pomposity and blinkered views are enough to drive any sane person mad [bit of a back handed compliment] I wish more aired their views on there.. By the way I made exactly that comment re eating game and lead..

[rbrowning2]

All good comments and I would not want to see the loss of lead from shot or ammunition in my life time, and yes visiting Avery blog certainly let’s you see what we are up against. Anybody who has not done so should visit and look back at the content.

The ban lead is gaining momentum after all it is a poison and been removed from petrol, paint etc and it is not always the end user that is at risk but the manufacture of the original product hence the likelihood of it being removed from steel, brass and bronze.

no matter what argument we put forward the science is strong and Denmark and the Netherlands are showing the way. However it now looks like they have problems with Non biodegradable plastic wads causing pollution.

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by rbrowning2

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

All good comments and I would not want to see the loss of lead from shot or ammunition in my life time, and yes visiting Avery blog certainly let’s you see what we are up against. Anybody who has not done so should visit and look back at the content.

The ban lead is gaining momentum after all it is a poison and been removed from petrol, paint etc and it is not always the end user that is at risk but the manufacture of the original product hence the likelihood of it being removed from steel, brass and bronze.

no matter what argument we put forward the science is strong and Denmark and the Netherlands are showing the way. However it now looks like they have problems with Non biodegradable plastic wads causing pollution.

 

Hasn’t Norway reversed its lead shot ban? 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

Interesting to see your visiting the avery site. I went on there for a few weeks but found it put me in such a foul mood that I had to stop.. his and his followers  pomposity and blinkered views are enough to drive any sane person mad [bit of a back handed compliment] I wish more aired their views on there.. By the way I made exactly that comment re eating game and lead..

I had quite an ongoing debate with Avery regarding Dave Carries daughter, whom Avery was condemning for feeding lead shot game to her children as she admitted to doing in the process of marketing her game cookery book. 
As eating lead shot game is not illegal I asked him why he thought it was acceptable to launch such a vindictive attack on her, and I suggested it had more to do with his dislike of shooting and shooters than his concern for the well being of his fellow man. 
He just kept referring to ‘the science’ and was reluctant to accept that freedom of choice should play any part in anyone’s choice to eat lead shot game. 
Like I’ve said, despite the evidence, people have been eating lead shot game for generations, with no ill effect, or certainly no more than is experienced with any other kind of meat. 
Avery isn’t open to anything really which will hinder his agenda, which is possibly why his blog is moderated prior to publication. 

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Hasn’t Norway reversed its lead shot ban? 

Has been for a few years, but still non lead on wetlands and clay shooting in Norway.