Coronavirus (Covid-19) Is this it?

[Retsdon]

58 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Their uni's must be lacking if we have so many coming half way round the world to study here - at what must be a massive cost for them.

Know your enemy.

Incidentally, for anyone interested in following the progress of this virus here's a good link. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Edited February 5, 2020 by Retsdon

[Newbie to this]

Maybe Matt Groening is a time traveller after all 

[KB1]

7 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Know your enemy.

Incidentally, for anyone interested in following the progress of this virus here's a good link. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Small minds🙄  

If you get a degree in an English speaking country it carries far more weight in global currency……..  I thought that one would have been obvious to someone in your profession🥴

Edited February 6, 2020 by KB1

[Retsdon]

3 hours ago, KB1 said:

Small minds🙄  

If you get a degree in an English speaking country it carries far more weight in global currency……..  I thought that one would have been obvious to someone in your profession🥴

I was joking. 

It's remarkable though, the huge explosion of what could be called Chinese 'internationalism' that's occurred over the last 10 years or so. A couple of examples.

Here at our university we have (believe it or not) world class facilities for research in petrochemicals, and these days a very large number of the commercial companies that have set up over the fence from us to take advantage of those facilities are Chinese. And although we don't have any Chinese undergraduates, we have an ever increasing number of Chinese faculty and post-grad researchers. Yet 10 years ago, I don't think we had a single one. The overwhelming majority, both companies and faculty, would have been American.

The other, for me anyway, startling example was when I went back to South Africa a couple of years ago. I was trout fishing in the Cape Winelands and we stopped in Rawsonville, one of those sleepy little Afrikaaner town/villages. Well, not so Afrikaaner these days. Every shop there is now owned and run by Chinese immigrants (from Yunnan, the woman at the general store told me). And according to the mate I was with, that's pretty much the case all the way through the western province and South Africa in general.

Within a single decade, the growth of China's influence around the world has been massive - and it's still increasing. I'd hazard a guess that within another decade or so China is set to be THE global power. The days of a western hegemony that's lasted four centuries are numbered.

We live in interesting times.

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Retsdon

[WestonSalop]

I'm somewhat disappointed in myself - let me explain why.

My daughter has been in hospital for about 16 weeks and I visit every evening. When I got there last night, I noticed a Chinese chap with his child in a side-ward and I immediately thought to myself "don't go anywhere near him, I might catch coronavirus". Totally stupid and illogical thing to think but it really did shock me and cause me to sit back and begin to understand what's going on with the broader illogical treatment of Chinese folk by some here in the UK. 

I suppose its entirely feasible that I could be classed as racist - I'd be mortified if anyone actually did accuse me so. 

[Dave-G]

10 minutes ago, WestonSalop said:

I'm somewhat disappointed in myself - let me explain why.

My daughter has been in hospital for about 16 weeks and I visit every evening. When I got there last night, I noticed a Chinese chap with his child in a side-ward and I immediately thought to myself "don't go anywhere near him, I might catch coronavirus". Totally stupid and illogical thing to think but it really did shock me and cause me to sit back and begin to understand what's going on with the broader illogical treatment of Chinese folk by some here in the UK. 

I suppose its entirely feasible that I could be classed as racist - I'd be mortified if anyone actually did accuse me so. 

I wouldn't blame you and doubt many others would either. Its perfectly natural to be cautious about any Chinese person in a hospital at this time in my opinion.

 

Hope your daughter comes home soon.

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

I wouldn't blame you and doubt many others would either. Its perfectly natural to be cautious about any Chinese person in a hospital at this time in my opinion.

 

Hope your daughter comes home soon.

0.0003% of Chinese population affected by a respiratory condition that has one fifth of the mortality rate of the flu, yet strikes panic and fear.

Would you be thinkingly cautious of an indigenous Brit in hospital who is far more likely to have the flu that is 5 times more likely to kill you?

Your reaction, and WesternSalop’s, highlights just how influenced and conditioned we are to media hype and how we may initially fail to apply any sort of critical thinking to the message that we are given.  It is a mass hysteria really.

Not having a go, just using the example to highlight how absurd our thought process is at times.

Edited February 6, 2020 by grrclark

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And on top of that I and many others have received texts from the NHS warning about the Coronavirus!

[grrclark]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And on top of that I and many others have received texts from the NHS warning about the Coronavirus!

Which is also absurd Dave.  I get why that sort of message is being distributed, but what on earth are you supposed to do except be alarmed.

That drives the illogical thinking and treatment of Chinese people that WS mentioned, it really is crazy stuff.

As an aside sales of Corona beer have actually dipped as a consequence of this.  The economic disruption in China as a result of the closing down of businesses, extending holidays, etc could have a global impact over the next quarter and tip some states into recession.

Where I am not dismissive of what the consequence of a pandemic illness could be, I do think our immediate access to information and how that is disseminated is sometimes less that helpful as well.

 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

28 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Which is also absurd Dave.  I get why that sort of message is being distributed, but what on earth are you supposed to do except be alarmed.

That drives the illogical thinking and treatment of Chinese people that WS mentioned, it really is crazy stuff.

As an aside sales of Corona beer have actually dipped as a consequence of this.  The economic disruption in China as a result of the closing down of businesses, extending holidays, etc could have a global impact over the next quarter and tip some states into recession.

Where I am not dismissive of what the consequence of a pandemic illness could be, I do think our immediate access to information and how that is disseminated is sometimes less that helpful as well.

 

 

I thought that was the cure!

 

I haven't had a chinese takeaway for ages!

[bluesj]

32 minutes ago, grrclark said:

0.0003% of Chinese population affected by a respiratory condition that has one fifth of the mortality rate of the flu, yet strikes panic and fear.

Would you be thinkingly cautious of an indigenous Brit in hospital who is far more likely to have the flu that is 5 times more likely to kill you?

Your reaction, and WesternSalop’s, highlights just how influenced and conditioned we are to media hype and how we may initially fail to apply any sort of critical thinking to the message that we are given.  It is a mass hysteria really.

Not having a go, just using the example to highlight how absurd our thought process is at times.

So far, but the coronavirus has a RO value of around 4 and the flu is around 1.28 meaning anyone with the coronavirus is likely to give pass it to 4 people and someone with the flu is only likely to pass it to 1.28 people.

I try to avoid going to hospitals or the doctors as they are full of sick people and I don't care where they have come from!  

33 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Which is also absurd Dave.  I get why that sort of message is being distributed, but what on earth are you supposed to do except be alarmed.

That drives the illogical thinking and treatment of Chinese people that WS mentioned, it really is crazy stuff.

As an aside sales of Corona beer have actually dipped as a consequence of this.  The economic disruption in China as a result of the closing down of businesses, extending holidays, etc could have a global impact over the next quarter and tip some states into recession.

Where I am not dismissive of what the consequence of a pandemic illness could be, I do think our immediate access to information and how that is disseminated is sometimes less that helpful as well.

 

 

I believe Hyundai  have shut down their factories in South Korea 

[Retsdon]

49 minutes ago, grrclark said:

that has one fifth of the mortality rate of the flu,

..just curious how you have arrived at this figure?

[grrclark]

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

..just curious how you have arrived at this figure?

You’re quite right to question it too.  A misread on my part and it is remarkably difficult to find the mortality rate of flu, understandable i guess.

Scratch that particular reference, still about 0.0003% of the Chinese population though and the rest of my point stands.

25 minutes ago, bluesj said:

I try to avoid going to hospitals or the doctors as they are full of sick people and I don't care where they have come from!  

A healthy approach, but if you have to go to hospital then i wouldn’t be any more fearful of a Chinese person that anyone else.

[bluesj]

4 minutes ago, grrclark said:

A healthy approach, but if you have to go to hospital then i wouldn’t be any more fearful of a Chinese person that anyone else.

No! I agree avoid everyone the same 🙂

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Scratch that particular reference, still about 0.0003% of the Chinese population though and the rest of my point stands.

You're correct in that figure. But while I don't think this virus is the harbinger of the end of the world, I do think that a robust response was needed. Also, I'm not entirely convinced about the figures. For example given how many Chinese  tourists visit these countries, I find it hard to believe that Cambodia only has a single case or that Myanmar has zero cases.

Whatever. The stock markets don't  seem to be duly concerned and they generally make the right calls. 

4 minutes ago, bluesj said:

No! I agree avoid everyone the same 🙂

As they say, a sheep's worst enemy is another  sheep!

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, grrclark said:

0.0003% of Chinese population affected by a respiratory condition that has one fifth of the mortality rate of the flu, yet strikes panic and fear.

Would you be thinkingly cautious of an indigenous Brit in hospital who is far more likely to have the flu that is 5 times more likely to kill you?

Your reaction, and WesternSalop’s, highlights just how influenced and conditioned we are to media hype and how we may initially fail to apply any sort of critical thinking to the message that we are given.  It is a mass hysteria really.

Not having a go, just using the example to highlight how absurd our thought process is at times.

Not having a go either: You carry on not being cautious in hospitals while there will be some Chinese people going there if that pleases you. So many more Chinese than usual have recently visited home for celebrations. Perhaps a relative has just returned, possibly one of those who cannot be traced.

I'll carry on being cautious just in case they have it, perhaps unwittingly, and I unwittingly carry it home to my extended family. There may still be things we don't yet know about it but I really cannot fathom why China would be building those emergency hospitals if its as harmless as you assume it to be.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Dave-G

[grrclark]

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Not having a go either: You carry on not being cautious in hospitals while there will be some Chinese people going there if that pleases you. So many more Chinese than usual have recently visited home for celebrations. Perhaps a relative has just returned, possibly one of those who cannot be traced.

I'll carry on being cautious just in case they have it, perhaps unwittingly, and I unwittingly carry it home to my extended family. There may still be things we don't yet know about it but I really cannot fathom why China would be building those emergency hospitals if its as harmless as you assume it to be.

Just how do you be cautious about not catching something such as this infection?  Good hygiene such as washing your hands and what not is fair enough, but would you wear a mask or just give Chinese folk a big bodyswerve?

What i’m really getting at is that the sensible precautions that we can take we should be taking anyway, but given that the infection cares not a jot what your nationality is i’m not really sure what, in practical terms, you can do to especially avoid it.

Bluesj’s approach works for me, just avoid the hospital and doctors if you can and if you cant then appreciate the odds of catching an exotic lurgy are actually really small (for now) and don’t stress about it.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I thought that was the cure!

I also heard that alcohol kills it 

So I have been upping my alcohol intake, just incase 

Before anyone jumps on me, I know it doesn't mean by consuming.

[bluesj]

8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I also heard that alcohol kills it 

So I have been upping my alcohol intake, just incase 

Before anyone jumps on me, I know it doesn't mean by consuming.

But if it works on the outside its got to be worth a try! Sure I've got a bottle of brandy here somewhere 

Edited February 6, 2020 by bluesj

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, bluesj said:

But if it works on the outside its got to be worth a try! Sure I've got a bottle of brandy here somewhere 

Apply liberally and regularly!

[islandgun]

14 hours ago, Retsdon said:

I was joking. 

It's remarkable though, the huge explosion of what could be called Chinese 'internationalism' that's occurred over the last 10 years or so. A couple of examples.

Here at our university we have (believe it or not) world class facilities for research in petrochemicals, and these days a very large number of the commercial companies that have set up over the fence from us to take advantage of those facilities are Chinese. And although we don't have any Chinese undergraduates, we have an ever increasing number of Chinese faculty and post-grad researchers. Yet 10 years ago, I don't think we had a single one. The overwhelming majority, both companies and faculty, would have been American.

The other, for me anyway, startling example was when I went back to South Africa a couple of years ago. I was trout fishing in the Cape Winelands and we stopped in Rawsonville, one of those sleepy little Afrikaaner town/villages. Well, not so Afrikaaner these days. Every shop there is now owned and run by Chinese immigrants (from Yunnan, the woman at the general store told me). And according to the mate I was with, that's pretty much the case all the way through the western province and South Africa in general.

Within a single decade, the growth of China's influence around the world has been massive - and it's still increasing. I'd hazard a guess that within another decade or so China is set to be THE global power. The days of a western hegemony that's lasted four centuries are numbered.

We live in interesting times.

 

The Chinese are buying up large lumps of Australia

https://www.news.com.au/national/fears-one-million-aussie-homes-could-soon-be-owned-by-foreign-buyers/news-story/c50a4112bab4f3ed8fae27277f313f54

https://www.farmweekly.com.au/story/5870377/which-foreign-investors-own-aussie-farms/

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Money crosses lots of boundaries!

[Dave-G]

42 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Just how do you be cautious about not catching something such as this infection?  Good hygiene such as washing your hands and what not is fair enough, but would you wear a mask or just give Chinese folk a big bodyswerve?

What i’m really getting at is that the sensible precautions that we can take we should be taking anyway, but given that the infection cares not a jot what your nationality is i’m not really sure what, in practical terms, you can do to especially avoid it.

Bluesj’s approach works for me, just avoid the hospital and doctors if you can and if you cant then appreciate the odds of catching an exotic lurgy are actually really small (for now) and don’t stress about it.

I'll avoid hospital if I can, our surgery now offers telephone consultations if its appropriate, mainly my ongoing for life issues, but if I have to go yes, a swerve with something over in front my nose if I have anything suitable to hand, whilst trying not to make it obvious. I have permanent lung issues that required more antibiotics than most will have had so my immune system is virtually non existent. Apparently those with underlying issues are most at risk.

[grrclark]

40 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I'll avoid hospital if I can, our surgery now offers telephone consultations if its appropriate, mainly my ongoing for life issues, but if I have to go yes, a swerve with something over in front my nose if I have anything suitable to hand, whilst trying not to make it obvious. I have permanent lung issues that required more antibiotics than most will have had so my immune system is virtually non existent. Apparently those with underlying issues are most at risk.

Nothing wrong with any of that.

I have to take 2 weekly jabs for arthritis that flatten my immune system too and don’t criticise anyone for being concerned and cautious, as much as you can be.

As i said earlier, i wasn’t having a dig at all at your instinctive reaction, just highlighting that when we look at it rationally the likelihood of catching anything is really tiny.  Some of the behaviour towards Chinese, or Chinese looking, people I have read about and in 1 case witnessed 1st hand is ridiculous.

I genuinely witnessed a person refusing to be served in a shop by a Thai girl because she coughed.  But almond shaped eyes and a cold had the individual concerned a deadly lurgy was imminent.

[fern01]

4 hours ago, islandgun said:

The Chinese are buying up large lumps of Australia

https://www.news.com.au/national/fears-one-million-aussie-homes-could-soon-be-owned-by-foreign-buyers/news-story/c50a4112bab4f3ed8fae27277f313f54

https://www.farmweekly.com.au/story/5870377/which-foreign-investors-own-aussie-farms/

They own big lumps of our infrastructure too - Northern Gas Networks is owned by CKI a Chinese investment company