Old farrier Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, lancer425 said: No i can not see your issue at all, i know a bloke uses a manufrance robust 2.5 inch boxlock , its 2.5 unch and fixed full and full i think or 31/4 and full. its fired mant many thousands of rounds of fast reloads mostly and its totaly unafected by steel in any way. Perhaps when you next see him you could ask him for his recipe for the 2.1/2 loads and weather he’s using plastic or biodegradable wads please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, 8 shot said: They're full and 3/4, i've spoken to Browning and Teague Chokes and they both recommend having them reproofed which will be for steel after multi choking.AND ALSO INVALIDATING the warranty Go ahead and waste your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Old farrier said: Perhaps when you next see him you could ask him for his recipe for the 2.1/2 loads and weather he’s using plastic or biodegradable wads please I can give you it now more or less, its chedite cases 70 mm once fireds off clay grounds. CX2000 primer Aliant steel B&P 24 wad and 15/1/16ths of 4s. it is a load from lightening steel he modified to go in the shorter case, its 33 grains instead of 38 its fast 1600fps or so at 3 yards. Hits like a steam train it does and with late 80s% at 40 yards through those tight chokes. Edited March 9, 2020 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, lancer425 said: I can give you it now more or less, its chedite cases 70 mm once fireds off clay grounds. CX2000 primer Aliant steel B&P 24 wad and 15/1/16ths of 4s. it is a load from lightening steel he modified to go in the shorter case, its 25 grains instead of 28 its fast 1600fps or so at 3 yards. Hits like a steam train it does and with late 80s% at 40 yards through those tight chokes. Many thanks and you’d be happy to fire it through your own English sidelock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, motty said: Go ahead and waste your money. So we listen to experts when it suits us and totally ignore them when it don't. Way forward eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Copper is legal here, and B&P could be imported if anyone of the importers decided they wanted too. Have you never wondered why their are no B&P cartridges for sale in the UK? LME lead $1880.00 LME Copper $5624.00 Per tonne. Steel or lead are really the only cost effective options unless shooting a relatively small amount used for wild fowling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, 8 shot said: They're full and 3/4, i've spoken to Browning and Teague Chokes and they both recommend having them reproofed which will be for steel after multi choking.AND ALSO INVALIDATING the warranty Its just not practical to mess about with it, i mean Teague is teague i dont know dont they do some oddball choke thread you can not get any proper chokes for it anyway just not worth it. Just sell it get a multi choked one and then you can buy a decent choke or two and your sorted out. Browning are just wearing their carefull hats. But its not like thats your fault. sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 David basc it would be helpful to have a statement from the uk proof house regarding the suitability of steel shot being used in guns not proofed for steel, rather than just speculation as to its use via I have shot it so it must be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 32 minutes ago, 8 shot said: They're full and 3/4, i've spoken to Browning and Teague Chokes and they both recommend having them reproofed which will be for steel after multi choking.AND ALSO INVALIDATING the warranty Teague have a vested interest in multi choking and reproofing guns, even when there’s no need; it’s how they gather revenue. If your 3/4 and full choked gun is proved for nitro, then there’s no reason you can’t leave them as is and just use standard steel. Did Teague not inform you this was an option? If you intend to use it for steel then why even have it multi choked? You could just have them opened to half for instance and you’re good to go. If you got Teague to do the work, they would still insist on it being reproofed however, despite there being no need; they claim their insurers insist on it. Personally I’d just leave it as is, use standard steel if you aren’t too sure about using HP steel, and spend the money saved on cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, rbrowning2 said: Have you never wondered why their are no B&P cartridges for sale in the UK? LME lead $1880.00 LME Copper $5624.00 Per tonne. Steel or lead are really the only cost effective options unless shooting a relatively small amount used for wild fowling. Copper £ 4. 30 a kilo that . shots up 35 cartridges. 1oz. Lead £1.88 a kilo that shots up 35 cartridges . will put cartridges up £2.50 a box all things being equal. so Black gold now £9 a box copper gold £11.50. Its more but its progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: David basc it would be helpful to have a statement from the uk proof house regarding the suitability of steel shot being used in guns not proofed for steel, rather than just speculation as to its use via I have shot it so it must be ok. The information is already out there. Officially if your gun is within nitro proof you can use standard steel through ANY choke, but nothing tighter than half with HP steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Copper £ 4. 30 a kilo that . shots up 35 cartridges. 1oz. Lead £1.88 ???? a kilo that shots up 35 cartridges . will put cartridges up £2.50 a box all things being equal. so Black gold now £9 a box copper gold £11.50. Its more but its progress. copper £4.30 per kg lead £1.42 per kg 3x the price for copper. But that is just the raw material, costs looks a lot higher to make copper into shot compared to lead. 1 minute ago, Scully said: The information is already out there. Officially if your gun is within nitro proof you can use standard steel through ANY choke, but nothing tighter than half with HP steel. Proof house link please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, rbrowning2 said: copper £4.30 per kg lead £1.42 per kg 3x the price for copper. But that is just the raw material, costs looks a lot higher to make copper into shot compared to lead. ok Bismuth is very easy to make into shot. how much is that a tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Old farrier said: Things change in a day so it seems I think I shall ask for my deposits back and not take the chance 3 inch again Yes, but lancer does look at this from a very narrow viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Penelope said: Yes, but lancer does look at this from a very narrow viewpoint. I drive a VOLVO not a tank. Wait there the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Penelope said: Yes, but lancer does look at this from a very narrow viewpoint. Apparently so best will in the world it won’t fit I’ve tried it jams on the forcing cone but I’m currently extending the chamber’s on one gun to get them to fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 31 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Many thanks and you’d be happy to fire it through your own English sidelock? Look IS IT paper thin barrels a sidelock is not really enough. What is it whats it like, have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) A cynical person might think that certain people as wildflowers might be seeing the bright side because they can possibly see the price of their cartridges coming down now the orgs have deemed lead demonic! Even if it means a rise in cost for everyone else. Edited March 9, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Look IS IT paper thin barrels a sidelock is not really enough. What is it whats it like, have a look. Hang on Takes a minute to resise Picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: A cynical person might think that certain people as wildflowers might be seeing the bright side because they can possibly see the price of their cartridges coming down now the orgs have deemed lead demonic! Even if it means a rise in cost for everyone else. And perhaps Wildfowlers had to adjust 20+ years ago and already have to pay more to continue Wildfowling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, lancer425 said: ok Bismuth is very easy to make into shot. how much is that a tone. Now that is an interesting question because China is the single largest producer of bismuth and look to operate outside the LME so the price varies quite a lot with each supplier in China and how pure it is. But typically around £8.00 to £10.00 per kg from China. but you need to add tin to the bismuth otherwise it is brittle, around 2 or 3 percent and tin is around £12800 per tonne. plus is it really sensible to spray a rare earth metal with use in other applications which benefit us all in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, 6.5x55SE said: And perhaps Wildfowlers had to adjust 20+ years ago and already have to pay more to continue Wildfowling. Don’t give them facts they don’t want any of them, what i would really like to know is how any of this coming in is going to drop our ammo prices , how about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Don’t give them facts they don’t want any of them, what i would really like to know is how any of this coming in is going to drop our ammo prices , how about you? Fact, you mean the one my post hinted at that wildflowers pay more for their cartridges Are you suggesting that once steel is the norm for cartridges that the price will not drop. If so it makes this whole fiasco even more of a joke, the shooting orgs would have effectively raised the cost of everyones (well accept wildflowers of course) shooting. Edit - just out of curiosity who are them?? Edited March 9, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Now that is an interesting question because China is the single largest producer of bismuth and look to operate outside the LME so the price varies quite a lot with each supplier in China and how pure it is. But typically around £8.00 to £10.00 per kg from China. but you need to add tin to the bismuth otherwise it is brittle, around 2 or 3 percent and tin is around £12800 per tonne. plus is it really sensible to spray a rare earth metal with use in other applications which benefit us all in this way. I have been spraying tons of the stuff everywhere in the past 20 years never batted an eye lid. Price from china no idea last i got from GUY at Lowden was about £8 a k lilo ingot, but i got 25 kgs in ingot from a forwarder in n Lincolnshire. that was slightly more. not sure . Ill have to get a price i thing £8 is about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, lancer425 said: I have been spraying tons of the stuff everywhere in the past 20 years never batted an eye lid. Price from china no idea last i got from GUY at Lowden was about £8 a k lilo ingot, but i got 25 kgs in ingot from a forwarder in n Lincolnshire. that was slightly more. not sure . Ill have to get a price i thing £8 is about right. Do you add tin to it or buy it with the tin already included? a few wild Fowler’s would not make a dent it the global situation for bismuth but if we and the whole of the EU shot it that may cause an issue. Edited March 9, 2020 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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