islandgun Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Sorry if this has been discussed, Looking at the Holts online catalogue..đ I noticed plenty of really nice guns described as obsolete a 10 with a 2-7/8 chamber for instance, also a Tolly 8 single barrel. I have recipes for 2-7/8 loads, why are they obsolete? guessing cartridges no longer available or blackpowder.. so are they usable ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibble Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Usable? maybe but if you do they are no longer Obsolete. I have a 16 bore matchlock Camel Gun on the bookcase behind me that only needs Black powder a ball/shot some saltpeter and a bit of rope and you are ready to ride across the desert robe flowing in the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 I believe anything that is obsolete but you intend to shoot, would have to go on ticket and be stored the same as any other shotgun/rifle. No reason why you can't use an obsolete calibre if you can get/make the ammo, as long as the gun is still in a shootable condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Short chambered 10 bores and 8 bore guns are legally of obsolete calibre, assuming they are original, antique guns that is? They can be purchased and held without a SGC only if you dont use them.......however if you intend to and use them, it will be necessary to get them put on you SGC. The cartridges for are not commercially available....but you can home load them   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 As above ... Iâve done this recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 There obsolete because cartridge for them is no longer available however if you home load and want to shoot them they must be on your license note if you want to submit it for Re proof they will proof it to 3 inch and then it will no longer be obsolete they are usable however (not sure in your area) you need to consider the load in non toxic and not lead for Wildfowl and with the new voluntary thing who knows what you can shoot   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) As far as handguns are concerned, it's all to do with readily available commercial cartridges. If no one is manufacturing them on a commercial basis then they are deemed obsolete. If you have the means to load for them and intend to use them, then the relevant ticket and authorisation would be needed. I'm assuming it's the same for shotguns and rifles. Edited February 25, 2020 by Scully Old Farrier beat me to it...as did Panoma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020   3 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: As above ... Iâve done this recently. . Im holding you responsible for drawing my attention to Holts..đ 5 minutes ago, Old farrier said: There obsolete because cartridge for them is no longer available however if you home load and want to shoot them they must be on your license note if you want to submit it for Re proof they will proof it to 3 inch and then it will no longer be obsolete they are usable however (not sure in your area) you need to consider the load in non toxic and not lead for Wildfowl and with the new voluntary thing who knows what you can shoot   Can you use an out of nitro proof gun with BP. ?. we can use lead inland [ wildfowl] or at least you could last time i looked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, islandgun said: 11 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: Â . Im holding you responsible for drawing my attention to Holts..đ We may be bidding against each other! Seriously, Iâll have a look at it and let you know what condition itâs in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, islandgun said:   . Im holding you responsible for drawing my attention to Holts..đ Can you use an out of nitro proof gun with BP. ?. we can use lead inland [ wildfowl] or at least you could last time i looked Havenât got a clue about that although they say you can proof a bamboo cane for black powder although out of proof is out of proof and that could be for many reasons not just thin barrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Smokersmith said: We may be bidding against each other! Seriously, Iâll have a look at it and let you know what condition itâs in. No worries I cant afford it just now, August perhaps..đ did you notice the big game scene guessing an opened out rifle !  1 minute ago, Old farrier said: Havenât got a clue about that although they say you can proof a bamboo cane for black powder although out of proof is out of proof and that could be for many reasons not just thin barrels Ok mate thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 34 minutes ago, islandgun said:   . Im holding you responsible for drawing my attention to Holts..đ Can you use an out of nitro proof gun with BP. ?. we can use lead inland [ wildfowl] or at least you could last time i looked I donât think the auction house could legally sell any out of proof gun...... other than to an RFD.....If the gun bore diameter, measured at 9â from the breech, is by a stipulated amount, larger than its diameter at proof, whether BP or Nitro...it would be out of proof! There is nothing stopping (except caution!) anyone using an out of proof gun, but it is illegal to sell one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: I donât think the auction house could legally sell any out of proof gun...... other than to an RFD.....If the gun bore diameter, measured at 9â from the breech, is by a stipulated amount, larger than its diameter at proof, whether BP or Nitro...it would be out of proof! There is nothing stopping (except caution!) anyone using an out of proof gun, but it is illegal to sell one! Right thanks, so even "obsolete" guns are in proof if for sale, or would being out of proof or beyond proof make a gun obsolete, In future i would be interested in an 8 bore for occasional use  [bismuth].... BP would be great.. do auction houses have to state proof ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, islandgun said: Right thanks, so even "obsolete" guns are in proof if for sale, or would being out of proof or beyond proof make a gun obsolete, In future i would be interested in an 8 bore for occasional use  [bismuth].... BP would be great.. do auction houses have to state proof ? My understanding is that obsolete is the term used where there is no commercial available ammunition as has been stated. They can be sold as antiques to persons without a SGC. It is not related to proof. I have an eight bore, a 2 5/8 chambered ten bore and a 16 bore pin fire . These are obsolete but as I shoot them they are on my certificate. Did you buy the ten bore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Dave at kelton said: My understanding is that obsolete is the term used where there is no commercial available ammunition as has been stated. They can be sold as antiques to persons without a SGC. It is not related to proof. I have an eight bore, a 2 5/8 chambered ten bore and a 16 bore pin fire . These are obsolete but as I shoot them they are on my certificate. Did you buy the ten bore? No it went before i could place a deposit..đ.. are your guns nitro proof or BP, ?... I do remember, as Panoma states that a gun must be in proof to be sold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, islandgun said: No it went before i could place a deposit..đ.. are your guns nitro proof or BP, ?... I do remember, as Panoma states that a gun must be in proof to be sold The big bores are nitroproof. The eight was reproofed before I bought it to 1200 bars. Did I recall you said you were coming down to Westlands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Dave at kelton said: The big bores are nitroproof. The eight was reproofed before I bought it to 1200 bars. Did I recall you said you were coming down to Westlands? Im hoping to get down there sometime this summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 obsolete means non commercial every day loads     but load your own is ok for any shot / load size given local restrictions  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinty1 Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 A list of calibres that benefit from obsolete status can be found in appendix 5 of the Home Office guide, Firearm Licensing Law. Just Google it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandango Posted February 27, 2020 Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 Bought a 4g a few years ago from a dealer as obsolete, nitro+ black powder proofed I was working away at the time and it was sent through the post,,,, got Some Brass cartridges made for it, put it on my licence and informed the FLD what I had done,,,, no problems ........ happy days... couldnât believe that they would send it through the post but it was all legal and above board.. I was disappointed as I couldnât sneak it into the cabinet as our lass took delivery and opened the parcel...... recall I had to do a bit of explaining!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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