More tin foil required

[12gauge82]

32 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So by restricting Holmes and Horden from spreading this carp may have stopped some criminal damage, but you think they should be allowed to peddle their rubbish?

It may have stopped some criminal damage, but I say punish those carrying out the damage, not someone for having an opinion, it's a fine line, but freedom of speech is such an important thing and it's being eroded in this country.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

It may have stopped some criminal damage, but I say punish those carrying out the damage, not someone for having an opinion, it's a fine line, but freedom of speech is such an important thing and it's being eroded in this country.

Yes catch and prosecute those that commit the damage but also those who irresponsibly post or repeat utter carp which may lead to the damage.

[Scully]

28 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

It's maddening, isn't it? According to Business inside, London areas occupy the top for areas for most highly educated people.

https://www.businessinsider.com/eurostat-most-educated-places-in-britain-2016-8?r=US&IR=T

And yet where is vaccination for measles at its lowest across the UK? London.

All because of idiots who still believe rubbish about vaccinations and autism. It's an absurd nonsense that simply won't die, but it's bankrolled by people who should know better!

 

I may be wrong, but could that be more to do with the wealthiest amongst us being able to pay privately for the three separate innoculations which made up the MMR injections?  The vast majority of people possibly couldn't afford to go private to have their children inoculated. 
I well remember Blair as PM stating the treble injection was quite safe,  but refused to answer Jimmy Young’s repeated question when he asked if he ( Blair )  had gone private to have his youngest inoculated with three seperate injections. 🙂

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes catch and prosecute those that commit the damage but also those who irresponsibly post or repeat utter carp which may lead to the damage.

The problem is, who decides what is utter carp? You could end up like China, where they try to shut up the doctor who blew the whistle on covid 19

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well until people stop lapping the carp up, someone will have to filter it out for them.

[oowee]

18 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The problem is, who decides what is utter carp? You could end up like China, where they try to shut up the doctor who blew the whistle on covid 19

Its simple, BBC not carp ITV all carp. 

[12gauge82]

45 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well until people stop lapping the carp up, someone will have to filter it out for them.

That's done by choosing to believe someone, or ignore them. Imho as long as no one is purposefully inciting others to commit violence or other criminal acts, people should be free to express any opinion they wish, regardless how stupid it might be.

30 minutes ago, oowee said:

Its simple, BBC not carp ITV all carp. 

The BBC is complete trash, or most of it anyway

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's done by choosing to believe someone, or ignore them. Imho as long as no one is purposefully inciting others to commit violence or other criminal acts, people should be free to express any opinion they wish, regardless how stupid it might be.

Do you really think so, that could cause an immense amount of trouble.

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Do you really think so, that could cause an immense amount of trouble.

It could, but the other opinion is we slip towards a police state, like I said, it's a fine balance.

For instance, the majority of the public would probably be more than happy to shut down the shooting communitys argument that hunting is an important part of countryside management and conservation and there's huge swathes of people out there who'd love to do it.

 

[Raja Clavata]

In this age of information I don't see the problem with the concept of there being consequences for sharing misinformation. I'd see it as a step towards enlightenment, misinformation is clearly a disruptive force and pretty much solely stands in the way of unified thinking across the planet - which on the basis that the real power of knowledge is in sharing it is completely counterproductive. 

On that very subject I read recently that information has mass, I'd like to know if information and misinformation have the equal mass as I'm trying to create a hypotheses that misinformation is linked to dark matter in the universe. The theory being that the amount of information (visible matter) in the universe is fixed whereas the amount of misinformation (dark matter) is growing by being fed by misinformation created by humans and this is the reason that the universe continues to expand. If this is proven then not only is man potentially responsible for climate change but also universal constants change (breaking the fundamental laws of physics). We have a lot to answer for and could really do with some kind of intervention to curtail us, something like .... - anyway, spread the word (not the virus) 😛 

On the other hand, just like everyone else, maybe I really do need to get out more...

[chrisjpainter]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

I may be wrong, but could that be more to do with the wealthiest amongst us being able to pay privately for the three separate innoculations which made up the MMR injections?  The vast majority of people possibly couldn't afford to go private to have their children inoculated. 
I well remember Blair as PM stating the treble injection was quite safe,  but refused to answer Jimmy Young’s repeated question when he asked if he ( Blair )  had gone private to have his youngest inoculated with three seperate injections. 🙂

Potentially and that might account for some of the discrepancy, but the data also coincide with the UK losing its WHO status as a measles-free nation (where only cases caught from abroad were registered), so I think there is a fair amount of stupid getting into the works too 😞

[Scully]

1 hour ago, chrisjpainter said:

Potentially and that might account for some of the discrepancy, but the data also coincide with the UK losing its WHO status as a measles-free nation (where only cases caught from abroad were registered), so I think there is a fair amount of stupid getting into the works too 😞

Fair point. 👍

Edited April 14, 2020 by Scully

[chrisjpainter]

Sigh. Stupidity morphing into criminality. 20 attacks on phone masts over the weekend.That's after the the mainstream media had been banging out the fact that it's all nonsense. Large book needs to be hurled at all of them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52281315

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

In this age of information I don't see the problem with the concept of there being consequences for sharing misinformation. I'd see it as a step towards enlightenment, misinformation is clearly a disruptive force and pretty much solely stands in the way of unified thinking across the planet - which on the basis that the real power of knowledge is in sharing it is completely counterproductive. 

On that very subject I read recently that information has mass, I'd like to know if information and misinformation have the equal mass as I'm trying to create a hypotheses that misinformation is linked to dark matter in the universe. The theory being that the amount of information (visible matter) in the universe is fixed whereas the amount of misinformation (dark matter) is growing by being fed by misinformation created by humans and this is the reason that the universe continues to expand. If this is proven then not only is man potentially responsible for climate change but also universal constants change (breaking the fundamental laws of physics). We have a lot to answer for and could really do with some kind of intervention to curtail us, something like .... - anyway, spread the word (not the virus) 😛 

On the other hand, just like everyone else, maybe I really do need to get out more...

You what? 😂😂😂

 

Seriously though, what is being proposed is that we mustn't risk someone speaking against the normal excepted practices, as many great minds have throughout history, sure 99% is going to be by crackpots, but restricting that free speech and thoughts, incase some fool does something stupid, is so damaging towards advancement and freedom, I find it all very concerning. 

[39TDS]

Whenever I read about witch trials and what people both believed and participated in I have always been puzled about how many can be caught up in such an unbelievable course of actions.

Yet here we are in our technological age of learning and enlightenment setting fire to 5G masts because of the suspicion they have caused a virus.

You would struggle to make this stuff up. People will look back on this with disbelief (or at least I hope they will).

Youtube has become a platform for lunatics to spout their "knowledge" and an army of equally lunatic followers to believe it. Possibly the most educated generation yet, with an incredible amount of science and fact at their disposal and they decide to believe the world is flat and radio waves are causing a virus.

Is it just a coincidence that it is within a decade or so of the mental hospitals getting closed down?

[The Heron]

7 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

The lust for attention!

Exactly he is a typical plank he tried to convince the tax man he was self employed lost in court and cost himself nearly£ 250000

[12gauge82]

54 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

Whenever I read about witch trials and what people both believed and participated in I have always been puzled about how many can be caught up in such an unbelievable course of actions.

Yet here we are in our technological age of learning and enlightenment setting fire to 5G masts because of the suspicion they have caused a virus.

You would struggle to make this stuff up. People will look back on this with disbelief (or at least I hope they will).

Youtube has become a platform for lunatics to spout their "knowledge" and an army of equally lunatic followers to believe it. Possibly the most educated generation yet, with an incredible amount of science and fact at their disposal and they decide to believe the world is flat and radio waves are causing a virus.

Is it just a coincidence that it is within a decade or so of the mental hospitals getting closed down?

I think it's more to do with the fact as a society we are more educated and aware than ever, it is telling that as a society, we now are so distrustful of government and authority. Many people (rightly or wrongly) simply don't believe the official line we're told and that leads to half the crazy conspiracy theories out there.

[Jaymo]

1 hour ago, 39TDS said:

Pigeon Watch has become a platform for lunatics to spout their "knowledge" and an army of equally lunatic followers to believe it. Possibly the most educated generation yet, with an incredible amount of science and fact at their disposal and they decide to believe the world is flat and radio waves are causing a virus.

Is it just a coincidence that it is within a decade or so of the mental hospitals getting closed down?

Fixed it for you 

[chrisjpainter]

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think it's more to do with the fact as a society we are more educated and aware than ever, it is telling that as a society, we now are so distrustful of government and authority. Many people (rightly or wrongly) simply don't believe the official line we're told and that leads to half the crazy conspiracy theories out there.

I think that's part of it. But also, people want to matter as individuals, and feel like they are as valuable as anyone, and they think that that equates to equality in all things. So my opinion on shotguns should matter just as much as yours - despite the fact that I've never owned or indeed fired one in my life! So then they don't need to trust 'experts' because their thoughts matter equally. So what right does the GUVOMENT have to tell me what's true and what's not? And so on and so on...

People aren't humble enough to say that some people are more knowledgeable, smarter and more well read than them and so their opinions and advice deserve more weight. Equality in rights, in protection etc, but equal value of opinion should be a myth. If not, I'm signing up as a brain surgeon. Or an astronaut. can't be that hard, right?

[39TDS]

6 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Fixed it for you 

I have said it before that of all the various forums I use, the members on here are the ones I consider least appropriate to own a gun.

[12gauge82]

15 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I think that's part of it. But also, people want to matter as individuals, and feel like they are as valuable as anyone, and they think that that equates to equality in all things. So my opinion on shotguns should matter just as much as yours - despite the fact that I've never owned or indeed fired one in my life! So then they don't need to trust 'experts' because their thoughts matter equally. So what right does the GUVOMENT have to tell me what's true and what's not? And so on and so on...

People aren't humble enough to say that some people are more knowledgeable, smarter and more well read than them and so their opinions and advice deserve more weight. Equality in rights, in protection etc, but equal value of opinion should be a myth. If not, I'm signing up as a brain surgeon. Or an astronaut. can't be that hard, right?

All valid points. People really are strange creatures indeed!

[lancer425]

Up to joining this forum i thought carp were innocent things. but now i am avoiding them. You never get all that trouble with perch or roach.

[chrisjpainter]

16 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Up to joining this forum i thought carp were innocent things. but now i am avoiding them. You never get all that trouble with perch or roach.

plenty of people being held up by them little beggars when they should be knocked off 'em for saying ridiculous things!

Edited April 14, 2020 by chrisjpainter

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

plenty of people being held up by them little beggars when they should be knocked off 'em for they're saying ridiculous things!

Rudy heck i never thought of that, i thought it sounded a bit fishy. The scales some will go to to Cast asPERCHans.

[grrclark]

6 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Idiotic to believe 5g has anything to do with this, however, if that's what someone thinks, they should be allowed to express it, if official bodies start policing people having an opinion, no matter how daft, I think it's the start of a very a slippery slope.

 

I know there has been a number of posts back and forth on this, but easier to quote the first one first.

I confess I really struggle with this issue, like you I ardently believe that as soon as we start to censor people or drive a particular social narrative that we head down an increasingly dark path, however this is also the very nature of society and a great deal of where we end up is as a result of the prevailing public conscience.  We become self censoring by group think.

As an example the first time I worked in Denmark was in 1997, I was 25 at the time and one of the local girls was the same age.  She talked about how her generation had started to climb down from the very liberal social attitudes of her parents.  As a result the red light district of Copenhagen was much much lower key than even Soho let alone Amsterdam or Hamburg, her parents saw that as worryingly relinquishing hard won freedoms from the 50s and 60s, but she saw it as progress.

A similar parallel would be the clamour of the press and political class to suppress the likes of the BNP.  While i find the people in that organisation abhorrent, if you try to sweep what they are saying under the carpet then you cannot publicly challenge the views and dismiss them as the poison that they are.  There is a fair argument that the discontent and lack of trust with our mainstream politicians stems from this behaviour to try to suppress challenging voices rather than meet them head on.

Same thing with people being stupid in the extreme with the 5g conspiracies, if you try to hush the voices entirely then they go underground and chatter away there and secretly gather momentum such that 20 cell towers were vandalised this weekend alone.  Let the people talk their nonsense, but there absolutely has to be a very vocal and forceful challenge to out the nutters as such an be unrelenting in that.  Eamon Holmes needs to be told on TV he is knob and shown to be that by someone breaking his argument down.

None of this "it's an opinion and everyone is entitled to that and we must respect that for fear of offending".  Stupid is stupid and needs to be called out as that, but more importantly it must be demonstrated as that.

Regrettably there is no shortage of stupid and there are far too many unthinking wallopers who latch onto a half baked idea, well they need to be called out as that too.  There is none so dangerous as an idiot who doesn't appreciate they are an idiot, i.e. President Trump.