3 1/4 inch chambered 12 bore.

[mudpatten]

Does anyone know anything about the 3 1/4" 12 bore cartridge? Not the modern 3 1/2 ".Google contains nothing that I can find.

Developed between the wars, I`m aware of its existance but can find little else. I remember reading that, prior to a shooting trip to Canada in the 1930`s King George v (?) took delivery of a 3 1/4" chambered 12 bore specifically for wildfowling, and another contributor on PW mentioned almost having bought one.

I have a vague recollection that the Canadian Imperial cartridge company made a conventional 3 1/4" 12 bore cartridge, rather than chamberless thin brass cased, but otherwise can find nothing. Does anyone know anything about it?

Edited May 7, 2020 by mudpatten

[Bobba]

Personally I've no idea. However, if you get no info here why not wing it and send an enquiry email to cartridge expert  "Just Cartridges" and see if they can help. Contact details on their website.

[harkom]

Eley manufactured a paper case 3 1/4" cartridge.

[lancer425]

I seem to remember reading years ago king george had one used it at sandringham. Guess they were an earlier version of today 3.5 inch.

[mudpatten]

Thank you gents. Harkom, thanks for that. I can find reference to 3 1/4" chambered 10 and 8 bores, but not 12. Do you remember where you saw them?

[lancer425]

I read about the one owned by a king, think it was A George but could have been and Edward or a prince or Wales "A Royal".  I seen to remember it was shooting times or could be shooting and conservation but would have been years ago 20 or more. I used to get given the odd sporting gun, but doubt it was there. My guess Shooting and conservation and possible a wildfowling edition, I don’t read many of them, but give the wildfowling one a good look.

[enfieldspares]

There are some Spanish shotguns too that have an odd size that is neither 2 3/4" nor 3" but 73mm or something? There are also the guns made on the Heath or "chamberless" theory. But I don't know if that is what the OP refers to.

[Farmboy91]

Listed on here @mudpatten

Sorry didn't realise I had cut the bottom off, it is advertised as 1939.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Farmboy91

[harkom]

15 hours ago, mudpatten said:

Thank you gents. Harkom, thanks for that. I can find reference to 3 1/4" chambered 10 and 8 bores, but not 12. Do you remember where you saw them?

Occasionally see them in auction Lots, perhaps a few amongst a mixed lot of cartridges.

[grahamch]

Theres a 3.25 12 for sale on guntrader

[holloway]

5 hours ago, grahamch said:

Theres a 3.25 12 for sale on guntrader

Yes there is a Charles Rosson wildfowler its been on there for well over a year .

[mudpatten]

Many thanks gents, especially Farmboy. I was aware of the thin brass case and thought that some of the US/Canadian manufacturers made a paper cased 3.25" ,but I did`nt realise that Eley made a 3.25 " paper case 12 bore cartridge. You learn something new every day! Thanks again.

[lancer425]

41 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

Many thanks gents, especially Farmboy. I was aware of the thin brass case and thought that some of the US/Canadian manufacturers made a paper cased 3.25" ,but I did`nt realise that Eley made a 3.25 " paper case 12 bore cartridge. You learn something new every day! Thanks again.

The canadian Imerial cartridge company made them, i think i saw a box not sure if it had ammo in it or just box but was in an auction about ten years ago.

[Farmboy91]

51 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

Many thanks gents, especially Farmboy. I was aware of the thin brass case and thought that some of the US/Canadian manufacturers made a paper cased 3.25" ,but I did`nt realise that Eley made a 3.25 " paper case 12 bore cartridge. You learn something new every day! Thanks again.

No problem 👍 

If someone has the book 

Eley Cartridges: History of the Silversmiths and Ammunition Manufacturers 

There may be additional information in there.

[harkom]

IIRCC there is/was a Greener 3 1/4" in the Sandringham display gun cabinet. There may be reference to it in "The King in His Country", author A Buxton, but I have not read the book. 

[London Best]

It is a very good book, and easy reading. Highly recommended. I’ve read it several times but can not recall a reference to the gun in question. Could be my failing memory, of course.

[enfieldspares]

I can remember Peter Powell telling me that there were two Powell duck guns at Sandringham. 

[DOLLSEYES]

Lincoln jeffries made a 31/4" chambered wildflower.I have been after one for years.There was a lad from up Cumbria way, I think his name was Bob he had a lot of big bore stuff pass through his hands years ago.If I remember right he sold it to a mate of his called Jim something and he had boxes of carts for it.Very plain guns with 32" barrels tight choked.

[panoma1]

27 minutes ago, DOLLSEYES said:

Lincoln jeffries made a 31/4" chambered wildflower.I have been after one for years.There was a lad from up Cumbria way, I think his name was Bob he had a lot of big bore stuff pass through his hands years ago.If I remember right he sold it to a mate of his called Jim something and he had boxes of carts for it.Very plain guns with 32" barrels tight choked.

DOLLSEYES.......The Lincoln Jeffries 3 1/4” BLE, I was looking to buy (Years ago) was very nicely engraved!....I also know a guy called Bob J (who in the past had a lot of big bore guns pass through his hands) had one, but he lived around the Hull area? The story I heard was that Lincoln Jeffries made six of these 3 1/4” chambered guns, to fulfil a special order? 

[DOLLSEYES]

Yes mate that rings a bell I think he was called Bob Johnston and the lad he sold it to was called Jim King.He could of been from Hull.He used to say that when he sold all his big bore stuff he bought his own woodland.I know they didn't make many.I was after one for years, I've got plenty of 3" chambered guns Midland, TBland (Brent), Tolley Altro, 2 xLewis.

[panoma1]

4 minutes ago, DOLLSEYES said:

Yes mate that rings a bell I think he was called Bob Johnston and the lad he sold it to was called Jim King.He could of been from Hull.He used to say that when he sold all his big bore stuff he bought his own woodland.I know they didn't make many.I was after one for years, I've got plenty of 3" chambered guns Midland, TBland (Brent), Tolley Altro, 2 xLewis.

That’s the guy!
 

The LJ I was after was mint!.......But the guy wanted nearly twice, what I valued it at!  And with the bottom recently falling out of the English SBS market, I doubt today It would realise what he wanted for it then?

[Pushandpull]

Bob Johnson is still about but has I think got rid of his many big guns. He posts occasionally as "Double Four".

T. Clifford Bland mentions having built some 3 1/4" guns "for which english cartridges are available" in the Lonsdale Library book on fowling.

I have an I.C.I. undated looseleaf catalogue which lists no big cartridges but shows "Gastight" cases in many sizes such as 3 1/4" 12, all eights up to 4 1/4" and 3" 16. I guess this is wartime or early post-war.

David Baker's "The Royal Gunroom at Sandringham" describes and illustrates King George VI's duck gun - a 3 1/4" hammerless Greener. The photo shows red paper case cartridges. The gun has a conventional top slide safety catch, weighs 7 lb.and was delivered in 1939 so HM can not have used it a lot.

Simon Reinhold (Twitter or website) might be a useful chap to talk to.