Cummings in the soup?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

so I really don't get your line of reasoning here.

I don't get yours either!

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

But the Government have been providing daily updates and discussing the details of these various issues

They have - and they may have put too optimistic a shine on the topics, but it is not a fair or reasonable thing to post "a government can't organize the purchase of a few containers of PPE without ordering the wrong stuff".  That just isn't a level at which government gets involved 'hands on'.

The original post I was addressing said "...... this government will not be up to the job. It's got nothing to do with being left or right wing. When a government can't organize the purchase of a few containers of PPE without ordering the wrong stuff; when it can't organize the processing of data from an already delayed testing scheme; when 'key parts' of a tracking programme are not in place when it's rolled out, when vacuum cleaner makers are charged with reinventing the ventilator wheel, etc, etc,..the list goes on and on"

My point is that the various mishaps and problems that have arisen are not directly 'government'.  Sure in the sense of your earlier point about the ultimate accountability - they are ultimately accountable ........... but it isn't 'government' people who order PPE.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, SpringDon said:

Ah ok, I do agree then. Also I don’t think it’s fair to blame the government for charging vacuum cleaner making to reinvent ventilators. I actually believe that was a triumph, leveraging underused expertise and capacity to fulfil emergency needs. The idea lacks recognition because it wasn’t ultimately  needed. 

Certainly there was a refreshing additional 'free thinking' aspect ........  The fact that is wasn't needed is one of the big successes that no one talks about. 

At the start of this the strategy herd immunity in the longer term and the tactics were (in part) to ensure that the NHS wasn't overwhelmed in the time before we can get 'herd immunity', preferably by a vaccine.  Basically the tactics were to buy time and flatten the peak, but at the same time it increased overflow capacity of beds (Nightingale Hospitals), and ICU capability (additional equipment).  Thankfully the government policy has achieved its tactical aim  (to date anyway in that there has never been an overwhelming demand for care) - which I see as a success - not the disaster many seem to think it was.

Of course too many have died - but had tactics failed and the NHS and capacity to treat people been overwhelmed - it would have been MUCH MUCH worse.

[ShootingEgg]

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

It was actually Ms Flack that sprung to my mind when the news on Dr Ferguson broke, if the press had locked onto that one then I think it may not have ended well. Unless Cummings' persona is a front, and I don't for one second believe it is, then I don't think he's vulnerable. 

My post was more along the lines of the way they act rather than if he is vulnerable. The way the media behave is an utter disgrace. Not just with the two stories in that image 

[Raja Clavata]

36 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Blogs are to me at least , musings, a sound board, a forum.
Disagree with him, challenge him , but dismissing his ideas reveals a closed mind.

Who's dismissing his ideas, certainly not me?

No , never , and no intention to.
I dont idolise the man, I just think , because of his stance and manner, he is treated very unfairly.
Using lies and half truths to defame someone you dont agree with , is the one of the lowest things you can do, a spreading of hypocrisy on top , and his enemies become my least favourite people.

I agree the reaction has been disproportionate but his manner compounded it and Boris just made it worse. The press are diabolical.

Ill come to the underlined in a minute.
But if that accusation is where he 'positioned himself a sage...' or you are referring to when he sat on the SAGE committee (as an observer) Im not sure where he can be accused of this.
Theres plenty recently , who have accused him of being the architect of the lockdown , and hypocrite blah blah... As far as Im aware he has had nothing to do with covid planning ?
So again , defamatory comments based on fabrications.

No, I'm talking about his retrospective prophecy on his blog. 

Because the accusations are based again, on heresay.
 

When Dominic Cummings made a public statement to explain why he drove 260 miles to stay with his parents during the coronavirus lockdown, the prime Minister’s chief adviser made an assertion that initially went largely unnoticed:

For years, I have warned of the dangers of pandemics. Last year I wrote about the possible threat of coronaviruses and the urgent need for planning.

It was, ultimately, beside the point but Cummings seemed to be reminding the public of his value. We are to believe that he is too vital a cog in the machine to be forced out of his job.

However, unfortunately for Cummings, it didn’t take the internet nerds long to find out his claim is not exactly true.

In fact, a quick search and check on the Wayback Machine shows only one mention of coronavirus on Cummings’ blog or any other media attached to his name. 

The 'WAYBACK MACHINE is supposedly a privately run (by nerds) archive of every web page ever formed complete with edits, and swiftly deduced that DC changed his blog between April 11 and 15  THIS YEAR , to include the line about his (supposed )corona virus predictions. (Of which he never actually predicted)
Except , it doesnt ...

Hes just added some more information , which probably came to light after he wrote the first piece in early March, no where does it say he 'predicted' anything, and no where does he claim to be an expert. 
By the authors own admission , this is the only entry regarding coronavirus he can find written by Cummings, so , either , DC is lying (the implication) hes not a very good researcher, or he found it , but decided not to use it , because it didnt fit his defamatory story.
Which do you think is the most likely scenario ?

I'll settle with this - his claim is not exactly true. At the very least it raises questions on integrity. Any self respecting scientist would record the fact they subsequently amended an article written / submitted previously.

For the sake of argument, heres the original blog piece https://dominiccummings.com/category/technology/synthetic-biology/
Its about bio security , and not corona virus as a whole.
Its also a non story, just like the Durham furore , a pitiable attempt at more character assassination.

The piece written in a blog called The conversation , who you claim has been checked by the totally 'unbiased' Mediabiascheck   as not left or right wing biased, has this on the first page of the piece.

That's called transparency.

Author

1. Taha Yasseri

   Senior Research Fellow in Computational Social Science, Oxford Internet Institute, Alan Turing Fellow, University of Oxford

Disclosure statement

Taha Yasseri receives funding from the European Commission (Horizon 2020), Google Inc, eHarmony, Oxford University John Fell Fund, Howard Hughes Medical Institute, and Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. He is affiliated with the Alan Turing Institute for Data Science and AI.

There you go, bring it back to Brexit. Boring! 

Your evidence / retort, is at best, circumstantial. You may wish to counter that mine is too, and that's fine.

53 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

No from my personal experience John is correct......again you attempt to muddy the waters, to try and demonstrate you weren’t wrong! 

Allow me to wish you a good day, since you interpret pretty much everything I direct at you as a threat 🙄

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Who's dismissing his ideas, certainly not me?

Wasnt directly aimed at you. But you have dismissed his ideas, and bought into question his integrity , based on what ?

 

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

No, I'm talking about his retrospective prophecy on his blog. 

What PROPHECY ? 
He pointed out issues with bio security over a year ago, and added a few bits in April, youve sidestepped the accusations of him being a coronavirus expert, and being 'caught out' at it.
The whole thing has barely made the papers because the accusation is full of holes, with a good prospect of libel involved.

 

9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

That's called transparency.

Really ?

 

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

There you go, bring it back to Brexit. Boring! 

Its more about Brexit than you care to admit to .

[Raja Clavata]

54 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I don't get yours either!

They have - and they may have put too optimistic a shine on the topics, but it is not a fair or reasonable thing to post "a government can't organize the purchase of a few containers of PPE without ordering the wrong stuff".  That just isn't a level at which government gets involved 'hands on'.

The original post I was addressing said "...... this government will not be up to the job. It's got nothing to do with being left or right wing. When a government can't organize the purchase of a few containers of PPE without ordering the wrong stuff; when it can't organize the processing of data from an already delayed testing scheme; when 'key parts' of a tracking programme are not in place when it's rolled out, when vacuum cleaner makers are charged with reinventing the ventilator wheel, etc, etc,..the list goes on and on"

My point is that the various mishaps and problems that have arisen are not directly 'government'.  Sure in the sense of your earlier point about the ultimate accountability - they are ultimately accountable ........... but it isn't 'government' people who order PPE.

If your point relates purely to the somewhat flippant nature of the original comment then, OK, I am with you. 

I think the wider point though is that the OP has reservations about the capability and perhaps integrity of the current government.

There are questions that need to, and will, be answered on their handling of COVID which points to capability. The whole Cummings debacle points to integrity.

Surely it's only natural for people who are not totally bought into Brexit, and certainly not a no deal, to be somewhat skeptical.

I don't see how it would be any different if the boot were on the other foot so to speak. 

Genuinely trying to see both sides here.

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I was afraid you'd say this. You are preaching to the choir here but what percentage of the public even realise that they subscribe to media that feeds their biases and manipulates their thoughts even further? Again, I'm aligned with your thinking but don't see how the change can be affected in good time, if ever.

 

I imagine quite a large proportion are oblivious, but as long as the mainstream media keep embarrassing themselves the way only they can do. the sooner more of the public will know and take direct action. Just look at the abysmal reporting "not that much of it is reporting" on the covid 19 . the deaths the lock down the virus itself Cummings. The goings. prior to this BREXIT. The whole Mainstream media juggernaut is rapidly loosing control of itself and as such its destiny and its very existence. 

We must get the point home and encourage others to boycott the media.

  "the news outlets around the world are struggling economically. Given their financial vulnerabilities, a sustained boycott can actually have a strong impact. But this must be a SUSTAINED effort…resist the temptation to watch / view / read any and all mainstream news sources, at all time"

Use alternative news sources even selected youtube podcasts etc from those you trust and who have justified reputations for investigative reporting and in depth analysis  of themselves  and as such their  destiny and their  very existence. Encourage others to  boycott local sources of corporate news that you suspect are not up to ethical standards, and to seek out and support your local independent news outlets.

"REMEMBER:!  what the corporate media is serving us is not news, it is propaganda. "

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Rewulf said:

Wasnt directly aimed at you. But you have dismissed his ideas, and bought into question his integrity , based on what ?

Not just integrity but his judgement too. I doubt we'd even be discussing it if at the press conference he'd said he regretted what he did. All he needed to do was say it, even if he didn't mean it.

I haven't dismissed his ideas, many of them sound good in concept. Like I said I'm not sure if he really understands all the details, but I don't claim to either so it's just a hunch / instinct.

Look, you know I have had reservations about the guy for a while - yes I was biased by his role in Vote Leave but would anyone stand behind the way he conducted himself at the enquiry or whatever it was as an example of decent behaviour? Do you seriously expect me to be warmer to him after this latest debacle?

What PROPHECY ? 
He pointed out issues with bio security over a year ago, and added a few bits in April, youve sidestepped the accusations of him being a coronavirus expert, and being 'caught out' at it.
The whole thing has barely made the papers because the accusation is full of holes, with a good prospect of libel involved.

Who accused him of claiming to be a coronavirus expert, I referred to sage of global pandemics earlier and qualified it with an if. Again, why bring it up at the conference after he'd edited the entry. It's like he's playing a game of chicken or something, the reality is he has become a damned liability for this government. He may well be a genius, but if he is, then like many it would appear to come with a number of significant flaws.

Really ?

Yes.

Its more about Brexit than you care to admit to .

Not for me it isn't. I can't speak for others. Sorry, but there is nothing for me to admit.

 

Just now, lancer425 said:

I imagine quite a large proportion are oblivious, but as long as the mainstream media keep embarrassing themselves the way only they can do. the sooner more of the public will know and take direct action. Just look at the abysmal reporting "not that much of it is reporting" on the covid 19 . the deaths the lock down the virus itself Cummings. The goings. prior to this BREXIT. The whole Mainstream media juggernaut is rapidly loosing control of itself and as such its destiny and its very existence. 

We must get the point home and encourage others to boycott the media.

  "the news outlets around the world are struggling economically. Given their financial vulnerabilities, a sustained boycott can actually have a strong impact. But this must be a SUSTAINED effort…resist the temptation to watch / view / read any and all mainstream news sources, at all time"

Use alternative news sources even selected youtube podcasts etc from those you trust and who have justified reputations for investigative reporting and in depth analysis  of themselves  and as such their  destiny and their  very existence. Encourage others to  boycott local sources of corporate news that you suspect are not up to ethical standards, and to seek out and support your local independent news outlets.

"REMEMBER:!  what the corporate media is serving us is not news, it is propaganda. "

To be honest I do a fair bit of that already myself and with friends and family. In the recent past of course everything was about Brexit and as someone who voted remain amongst family and friends largely in the leave camp it was a somewhat uphill task.

[Raja Clavata]

33 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

My post was more along the lines of the way they act rather than if he is vulnerable. The way the media behave is an utter disgrace. Not just with the two stories in that image 

I agree.

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Its more about Brexit than you care to admit to .

Not for me it isn't. I can't speak for others. Sorry, but there is nothing for me to admit.

 

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Look, you know I have had reservations about the guy for a while - yes I was biased by his role in Vote Leave

And Ive asked you what else has made you have those reservations, all I can see is , he was an architect of a successful vote leave campaign, and you dont like that.
 

 

8 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

would anyone stand behind the way he conducted himself at the enquiry or whatever it was as an example of decent behaviour? Do you seriously expect me to be warmer to him after this latest debacle?

First , it wasnt an enquiry, he explained his actions, put right some innaccuracies reported about him,  in a press conference , of which he DID NOT have to do, plus the way he conducts himself is irrelevant , hes not elected , and is not putting himself forward for any popularity contests, so no I dont expect you to warm to him..ever really, and Im pretty sure he wouldnt care either way.
Plus, to describe it as a debacle, is to agree with the anti DC media that it is one , when any rational person could see it for what it is, a witch hunt , with the aim of weakening this government in a time of national crisis.
Which is shameful .

[lancer425]

25 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

To be honest I do a fair bit of that already myself and with friends and family. In the recent past of course everything was about Brexit and as someone who voted remain amongst family and friends largely in the leave camp it was a somewhat uphill task.

I am so much a leaver i am glad you had a uphill struggle, you deserved it.

We just are opposites in so many ways. i bet you hate toyotas and daihatsus and love land rovers too. And i bet you favour berettas over brownings.

 AH! Well your just wrong that is all there is too it.

[Scully]

38 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I imagine quite a large proportion are oblivious, but as long as the mainstream media keep embarrassing themselves the way only they can do. the sooner more of the public will know and take direct action. Just look at the abysmal reporting "not that much of it is reporting" on the covid 19 . the deaths the lock down the virus itself Cummings. The goings. prior to this BREXIT. The whole Mainstream media juggernaut is rapidly loosing control of itself and as such its destiny and its very existence. 

We must get the point home and encourage others to boycott the media.

  "the news outlets around the world are struggling economically. Given their financial vulnerabilities, a sustained boycott can actually have a strong impact. But this must be a SUSTAINED effort…resist the temptation to watch / view / read any and all mainstream news sources, at all time"

Use alternative news sources even selected youtube podcasts etc from those you trust and who have justified reputations for investigative reporting and in depth analysis  of themselves  and as such their  destiny and their  very existence. Encourage others to  boycott local sources of corporate news that you suspect are not up to ethical standards, and to seek out and support your local independent news outlets.

"REMEMBER:!  what the corporate media is serving us is not news, it is propaganda. "

I totally agree, and the media and it’s behaviour increasingly throughout this so called pandemic is worthy of its own thread. 
Early days when I was still watching the news, I started to grow a bit tired of the negativity and biased approach it was taking....even my OH commented on it and she didn’t vote Tory. 
An example was the early days of testing when they would interview people who had managed a test of some sort and two people interviewed stated they found the procedure pretty straightforward and quite quick, so no story there, but then there was a ‘but we found Mrs Miggins of No 42 who has been waiting for a week ‘ and then the rest of the article concentrated on her and her predicament, and continued the report back in the studio. So one in three of those interviewed was having to wait, and that constituted the news. 
I switched it on a little early the other week to catch the weather and they were interviewing a bloke who was blaming the PM personally for his 103 ( literally ) year old father ( who seemingly had his whole life ahead of him ) succumbing to Covid in a care home!
Forum rules dictate I can’t tell you what our local Marie Curie nurse had to say about that. 

[Vince Green]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

I totally agree, and the media and it’s behaviour increasingly throughout this so called pandemic is worthy of its own thread. 
Early days when I was still watching the news, I started to grow a bit tired of the negativity and biased approach it was taking....even my OH commented on it and she didn’t vote Tory. 
An example was the early days of testing when they would interview people who had managed a test of some sort and two people interviewed stated they found the procedure pretty straightforward and quite quick, so no story there, but then there was a ‘but we found Mrs Miggins of No 42 who has been waiting for a week ‘ and then the rest of the article concentrated on her and her predicament, and continued the report back in the studio. So one in three of those interviewed was having to wait, and that constituted the news. 
I switched it on a little early the other week to catch the weather and they were interviewing a bloke who was blaming the PM personally for his 103 ( literally ) year old father ( who seemingly had his whole life ahead of him ) succumbing to Covid in a care home!
Forum rules dictate I can’t tell you what our local Marie Curie nurse had to say about that. 

You describe the Piers Morgan style of TV presenting, I see he has lost his job, good riddance too 

[Scully]

41 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

You describe the Piers Morgan style of TV presenting, I see he has lost his job, good riddance too 

Has he? What job, and when did this happen? 

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

You describe the Piers Morgan style of TV presenting, I see he has lost his job, good riddance too 

Unfortunately not true. He has just extended his contract on GMB. 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

He has just extended his contract on GMB.

Correct - until 2021

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

 

And Ive asked you what else has made you have those reservations, all I can see is , he was an architect of a successful vote leave campaign, and you dont like that.

I answered that I'd read his blog from way back. I went online to look for further references and it's chock full of the recent stuff. Which is why I said I'd look further if you were genuinely interested. I'm not actually sure you are to be fair since you don't seem to acknowledge what I'd clearly stated previously.

First , it wasnt an enquiry, he explained his actions, put right some innaccuracies reported about him,  in a press conference , of which he DID NOT have to do, plus the way he conducts himself is irrelevant , hes not elected , and is not putting himself forward for any popularity contests, so no I dont expect you to warm to him..ever really, and Im pretty sure he wouldnt care either way.

I'm talking about the events leading up to him being found in contempt of Parliament. He came across as an arrogant bell-end in the interview by the committee around that. There was also the tour he ran telling everyone how they manipulated people in the vote leave campaign. Something that is apparently shameful and abhorrent now that manipulation is directed against him. That's hypocritical, no?

When you are in the public eye, the way you conduct yourself is important. Also, I'm absolutely convinced he wouldn't give a toss about what I think of him, so what?

Plus, to describe it as a debacle, is to agree with the anti DC media that it is one , when any rational person could see it for what it is, a witch hunt , with the aim of weakening this government in a time of national crisis.
Which is shameful .

No, sorry, calling it a debacle is what it is, the press are definitely largely responsible but so is the government / Boris over their handling of it too. Yes, the press are largely amateurs but our elected government are supposed to be professionals...

 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

I am so much a leaver i am glad you had a uphill struggle, you deserved it.

We just are opposites in so many ways. i bet you hate toyotas and daihatsus and love land rovers too. And i bet you favour berettas over brownings.

 AH! Well your just wrong that is all there is too it.

But that is just the problem; you're falling into the identity politics trap, I have moved on from Brexit but there seems far to many leavers who are still clinging onto it. Maybe because it could well be the only shot they have?

I think diversity in views and tastes is great, I just think you're different to me and I'm OK with that. I'm equally OK with you believing and stating that I'm strange and wrong. No problemo. The odd thing is, until you mentioned it I hadn't really given who or what you are any conscious thought.

PS - you are wrong about the motors and correct about the shotguns but the latter was a 50 / 50 shot - if that confirms something else about me to you, then praise be, hallelujah and whatever.

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

No, sorry, calling it a debacle is what it is, the press are definitely largely responsible but so is the government / Boris over their handling of it too. Yes, the press are largely amateurs but our elected government are supposed to be professionals

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-fury-about-dominic-cummings-s-road-trip-is-really-about?fbclid=IwAR023__M_s6HdGkJKNhy7Bvl1TxdoiwRZdiL1pun59zo_MjBt2BeBSDcEAc

[Raja Clavata]

6 hours ago, lancer425 said:

More a new institutionalism approach to news grounded in sociological and historical approaches to new institutionalism and a general  approach to news production. This is a more modern integrated approach and encourages analysts to see the news as an outcome of interaction between responsible journalists and other political actors, adopting this approach should show contrasts  in news coverage around a general tendency toward homogeneity in the news, and, finally, that it encourages those looking for the real facts  to examine the full range of news outlets in the media universe rather than to concentrate their full attention on the narrow world of popular news  media.

The news media in its present accepted formats is at best woefully inaccurate and destructively biased and at its worst a terrifying weapon  of control and manipulation of an apparently gullible world wide populace .

OK, you got me thinking and my thirty second analysis of you suggests you plagiarised this and TBH I was tempted to call HOUSE earlier on the basis of BS bingo with all the words you used 🤣

Just now, Rewulf said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-fury-about-dominic-cummings-s-road-trip-is-really-about?fbclid=IwAR023__M_s6HdGkJKNhy7Bvl1TxdoiwRZdiL1pun59zo_MjBt2BeBSDcEAc

Written by the editor of Spiked?

[Rewulf]

58 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Written by the editor of Spiked?

Let me guess you hate him too ? 😏

Nothing more to say , the 'debacle' is over , the dark lord and his minion still sit on the throne of chaos,  and further attempts to use the gutter media to disrupt OUR governments handling of this crisis , and the troubles to come, will further expose the vitriol and treachery, of what is simply , the losing side.

If we were at war , it would be called sedition , an offence punishable by death.

But in these snowflake times , it will no doubt get approving nods and hearty handshakes from the champagne swilling lefties at their soirees.

Disgraceful behaviour .

[JohnfromUK]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think the wider point though is that the OP has reservations about the capability and perhaps integrity of the current government.

I'm sure that he does have reservations; he takes every opportunity to 'run down' the government.  If he uses the examples given, his real reservations are about the civil service - not the government who simply task the civil servants.  I don't think there is any doubt that the issues mentioned (PPE, ventilators, data processing, tracking) would have applied to any government of any 'colour' - and because it is a civil service task, the outcome would have been similar.  My point was that of the multitude of actions carried out by the 'government machine' - only a very few will actually be addressed/influenced by the political appointments that lead the government.  The vast majority will be carried out by civil servants just doing their 'day job' with (hopefully) no political input whatsoever - either from their own beliefs or ministers.

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

• Surely it's only natural for people who are not totally bought into Brexit, and certainly not a no deal, to be somewhat skeptical.

Whilst I can see they may be sceptical, I do not believe that the issues the OP mentions (PPE, data processing, delayed processing, delayed tracking, ventilator machine procurement) have had anything whatsoever to do with Brexit.

• Covid is a worldwide pandemic that no governments in the world wanted - created by 'natural causes' (possibly enabled by inadvertent human error/mistakes/habits).  It hit the UK (and the rest of the world) uninvited, unavoidable, unexpected and very unwelcome - its rapid spread assisted by worldwide human travel habits. 
• Brexit is a defined UK government policy for which they had a majority in a referendum (some years ago now) - and a substantial majority confirming to take forward (despite various other alternatives offered) at the December 2019 general election. 

They are as different as chalk from cheese.

[crosswaters]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-fury-about-dominic-cummings-s-road-trip-is-really-about?fbclid=IwAR023__M_s6HdGkJKNhy7Bvl1TxdoiwRZdiL1pun59zo_MjBt2BeBSDcEAc

Good read and spot on ,thanks for posting

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

the government who simply task the civil servants.  I don't think there is any doubt that the issues mentioned (PPE, ventilators, data processing, tracking) would have applied to any government of any 'colour' - and because it is a civil service task, the outcome would have been similar.  

 

The civil service advise the Govt who then task them to carry out actions. The difficulties would have applied to any party of any colour yes. Given the role playing and scenario planning that had preceded the pandemic, together with the advanced notice of it's arrival and the likely implications for UK plc a reasonabley competent Government would have tasked the various civil servants to make preperations. It is clear the UK was woefully unprepared. Dummings and BJ were at the back of the que when they should have been working to put the UK on the front foot. 

Everything from the lack of PPE, the late and unclear lock down, the lack of ventilators, lack of oxygeon, the lack of NHS capacity and the poor economic response can be laid at their door.

 

[AVB]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

 

Everything from the lack of PPE, the late and unclear lock down, the lack of ventilators, lack of oxygeon, the lack of NHS capacity and the poor economic response can be laid at their door.

 

Lack of PPE - every country has struggled. Even Germany. 
late Lockdown - where we were in respect of the global spread we actually locked down earlier than Italy and Spain. 
lack of ventilators - we never needed the ventilators and so there was no shortage. 
lack of NHS capacity - there was no lack of capacity. We never got overrun. 
poor economic response - what should we have done differently? What countries have done more than the UK?