Sustainable ammunition articles

[Scully]

27 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Quote - All those attending should be experienced shots and are required to bring their own 12 gauge shotgun

I use a .410 for ratting most of the time with 2 inch cartridges - indoors in barns - please let me know when a suitable day has been arranged to try sustainable ammunition in this combination - along with the undoubtedly expensive PPE I would have to wear to avoid the ricochets - thanks in advance Connor

That’s not gonna happen; if you don’t shoot driven game I doubt you’ll be a priority. 

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Perhaps a pigeonwatch forum member might consider participating in one of BASC's sustainable ammunition days and then report back to the forum on how it went?

The next event is on Friday 31 July and Saturday 1 August at Dovey Valley Shooting Ground in Wales.

To book your place visit:

https://events.basc.org.uk/events/try-sustainable-ammunition/

I have a 2 1/2" SBS BLE chambered 12 Bore by Henry Clarke of Leicester. Bought for my father in 1919 on his twelfth birthday and my own Boss SLE also 2 1/2" chambered. Both are bore IMP + IMP in both barrels. If I bring the will BASC indemnify me against the cost of a set of replacement barrels should either be damaged? The cost of new Boss barrels being, I'm told, about £10,000. Also of course against damage to the action of either as in old guns which BASC seems not to realise it is the action also that are stressed beyond their usual limits by using steel **** loads.

[Scully]

38 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

I have a 2 1/2" SBS BLE chambered 12 Bore by Henry Clarke of Leicester. Bought for my father in 1919 on his twelfth birthday and my own Boss SLE also 2 1/2" chambered. Both are bore IMP + IMP in both barrels. If I bring the will BASC indemnify me against the cost of a set of replacement barrels should either be damaged? The cost of new Boss barrels being, I'm told, about £10,000. Also of course against damage to the action of either as in old guns which BASC seems not to realise it is the action also that are stressed beyond their usual limits by using steel **** loads.

If you’re using 2.5” cartridges what makes you think they’d be damaged? 

[Old farrier]

58 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

I have a 2 1/2" SBS BLE chambered 12 Bore by Henry Clarke of Leicester. Bought for my father in 1919 on his twelfth birthday and my own Boss SLE also 2 1/2" chambered. Both are bore IMP + IMP in both barrels. If I bring the will BASC indemnify me against the cost of a set of replacement barrels should either be damaged? The cost of new Boss barrels being, I'm told, about £10,000. Also of course against damage to the action of either as in old guns which BASC seems not to realise it is the action also that are stressed beyond their usual limits by using steel **** loads.

It says guns 2.3/4 inch on the day 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Old farrier said:

It says guns 2.3/4 inch on the day

And therein lies the heart of the problem.  As things stand at present we are being pushed to retire a vast number of historic (not to mention formerly valuable) guns.

[enfieldspares]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

And therein lies the heart of the problem.  As things stand at present we are being pushed to retire a vast number of historic (not to mention formerly valuable) guns.

Exactly. Thank you. 

[Scully]

14 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Exactly. Thank you. 

Eh? If you knew it stated 2.75" chambered guns only then why did you ask if BASC would pay you for potential barrel damage if you put cartridges through it for which it wasn't designed?  I assumed you'd be loading your own as unless you've been on the moon for the past few years, you would know 2.5" steel cartridges aren't available commercially. 

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

And therein lies the heart of the problem.  As things stand at present we are being pushed to retire a vast number of historic (not to mention formerly valuable) guns.

I’m understanding the problem however I’m prepared to go for the day and try what they have on offer form a opinion and hopefully find something to adapt to 2.1/2 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Eh? If you knew it stated 2.75" chambered guns only then why did you ask if BASC would pay you for potential barrel damage if you put cartridges through it for which it wasn't designed?  I assumed you'd be loading your own as unless you've been on the moon for the past few years, you would know 2.5" steel cartridges aren't available commercially. 

And that's the point. Steel cartridges aren't available, on these BASC Days for 2 1/2" guns. Only for 2 3/4" chambered guns. As I've said. So it's not going to convince me of anything about "how good steel is on simulated game" as I and many others with 2 1/2" guns won't be coming. These BASC Days are answering a question that everybody already knows the answer to...that modern 2 3/4" chambered guns can fire Standard Steel cartridges. 

[Scully]

17 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

And that's the point. Steel cartridges aren't available, on these BASC Days for 2 1/2" guns. Only for 2 3/4" chambered guns. As I've said. So it's not going to convince me of anything about "how good steel is on simulated game" as I and many others with 2 1/2" guns won't be coming. These BASC Days are answering a question that everybody already knows the answer to...that modern 2 3/4" chambered guns can fire Standard Steel cartridges. 

I see, it was sarcasm. 👍

If 2.5” steel shot cartridges don’t become commercially available, and lead is eventually banned, I can see a time when some of those who own such guns have the chambers reamed to 2.75”; I know I would in those circumstances, reproofing or not. 
Your best Boss, Purdy, Churchill or whatever, with those chokes and standard nitro proof, is more than capable of withstanding standard steel if not HP. I certainly wouldn’t have any qualms about using either. 
 

[Old farrier]

21 minutes ago, Scully said:

I see, it was sarcasm. 👍

If 2.5” steel shot cartridges don’t become commercially available, and lead is eventually banned, I can see a time when some of those who own such guns have the chambers reamed to 2.75”; I know I would in those circumstances, reproofing or not. 
Your best Boss, Purdy, Churchill or whatever, with those chokes and standard nitro proof, is more than capable of withstanding standard steel if not HP. I certainly wouldn’t have any qualms about using either. 
 

However the recoil in the light gun maybe the deciding factor 

I shall go as it’ll be a opportunity to try I hope a assortment of different steel cartridges with  bio degradable wads 

assess them and be able to make a more informed decision 

And it’ll probably save me buying them all in slabs and rejecting the worst performance ones 

 

[London Best]

We are in the U.K.

The standard British game gun is 2 1/2 inch chamber, ( I don’t care what you O/U boys say), why is everyone concentrating on the 2 3/4 inch chambers used by the clay pigeon boys in their foreign made guns?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Old farrier said:

e a opportunity to try I hope a assortment of different steel cartridges with  bio degradable wads

Serious question:

How will you be assessing the results?

The reasons I ask are these. 

1. I can see that you can feel/compare the perceived recoil directly
2. You may get a 'feel for' how they are patterning, but only really if there is something seriously amiss unless there is a pattern plate.  I (personally) don't think I shoot consistently enough to assess from a few shots at clays.
3. One of the past criticisms levelled at steel is that they don't have the striking energy at range resulting in more pricked birds.  I don't think you can assess that on clays.

So really, all you are assessing may be recoil?

Interested in other views.

1 minute ago, London Best said:

We are in the U.K.

The standard British game gun is 2 1/2 inch chamber, ( I don’t care what you O/U boys say), why is everyone concentrating on the 2 3/4 inch chambers used by the clay pigeon boys in their foreign made guns?

To be fair, I am the only person (apart from one regular guest of mine) on our small shoot who uses a 2 1/2" chambered gun.

[London Best]

8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

To be fair, I am the only person (apart from one regular guest of mine) on our small shoot who uses a 2 1/2" chambered gun.

In my regular group of ten guns there are usually at least seven of us using 2 1/2 inch guns, sometimes up to nine of us depending who brings what. Two fairly regularly use Spanish side locks at 2 3/4 inch, but sometimes English instead. Two own O/U’s but do not always bring them. The only 2 3/4  inch gun that is guaranteed to be there is farmer Albert’s Baikal.

Edited July 23, 2020 by London Best

[Old farrier]

Just now, JohnfromUK said:

Serious question:

How will you be assessing the results?

The reasons I ask are these. 

1. I can see that you can feel/compare the perceived recoil directly
2. You may get a 'feel for' how they are patterning, but only really if there is something seriously amiss unless there is a pattern plate.  I (personally) don't think I shoot consistently enough to assess from a few shots at clays.
3. One of the past criticisms levelled at steel is that they don't have the striking energy at range resulting in more pricked birds.  I don't think you can assess that on clays.

So really, all you are assessing may be recoil?

Interested in other views.

We have to start somewhere 

If the first cartridge kicks like a mule that’s a box I haven’t bough 

I think from the breaks I shall be able to see if they are patterning well enough to be useful (I shoot a lot of clays) (( now I’ve posted that they probably won’t have me on the day )) 

if the targets are pathetically close I won’t be shooting at them I shall expect them to simulate sporting game birds 

anyway we shall see I’ve yet to hear from Connor when there’s going to be a day down south 

 

 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 hours ago, London Best said:

We are in the U.K.

The standard British game gun is 2 1/2 inch chamber, ( I don’t care what you O/U boys say), why is everyone concentrating on the 2 3/4 inch chambers used by the clay pigeon boys in their foreign made guns?

Still living in the last century then?

[Stonepark]

11 hours ago, London Best said:

The only 2 3/4  inch gun that is guaranteed to be there is farmer Albert’s Baikal.

And that will be just about immune to anything 2.75 or shorter put through it.

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Still living in the last century then?

Well, that's when most of my new guns were made and I do expect them to last a tad more than just 20 years.

[London Best]

57 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

And that will be just about immune to anything 2.75 or shorter put through it.

It won’t be immune to Albert! He’s wrecked three already. They live on his tractor. 

[Old farrier]

18 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Perhaps a pigeonwatch forum member might consider participating in one of BASC's sustainable ammunition days and then report back to the forum on how it went?

The next event is on Friday 31 July and Saturday 1 August at Dovey Valley Shooting Ground in Wales.

To book your place visit:

https://events.basc.org.uk/events/try-sustainable-ammunition/

I’ll have a go 

if you could let me know when you holding on in the south 

the link only appears to take bookings for the Wales day 

[London Best]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Still living in the last century then?

Well I certainly don’t possess any guns made in this century. My newest was bought  new by my wife as a wedding present in 1975, my main game gun was made in 1930 and my oldest was made in 1865. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

49 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I’ll have a go 

if you could let me know when you holding on in the south 

the link only appears to take bookings for the Wales day 

I would imagine there will be opportunities ahead in the south. I have asked a colleague at BASC and I will post updates as more events are published.

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

It won’t be immune to Albert! He’s wrecked three already. They live on his tractor. 

I have two in cupboard myself if he runs out......

[Old farrier]

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I would imagine there will be opportunities ahead in the south. I have asked a colleague at BASC and I will post updates as more events are published.

Imagine?? 
I would sincerely hope there’s something planned for the south 

please keep me informed 

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

12 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Imagine?? 
I would sincerely hope there’s something planned for the south 

please keep me informed 

 

Of course - please email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and I will ensure you are directly informed.