Time for independence?

[Mice!]

9 minutes ago, Konor said:

Personally I have been impressed with the way Nicola Sturgeon has conducted herself during the pandemic.

Let's be fair though, she's only dealing with what 9million people? Spread over quite an area.

And whenever these independence threads crop up there is always loads about both Scotland and Wales that's comes out saying how bad things are being ran, health services infrastructure etc.

We never normally hear anything about any of that or to be fair care, because it's not effecting us.

If everything was running smoothly then I could understand the cry for Freedom, but when the golden goose stops sending eggs then what? Without England's (London's) money what do Scotland and Wales have planned??

[Konor]

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Let's be fair though, she's only dealing with what 9million people? Spread over quite an area.

And whenever these independence threads crop up there is always loads about both Scotland and Wales that's comes out saying how bad things are being ran, health services infrastructure etc.

We never normally hear anything about any of that or to be fair care, because it's not effecting us.

If everything was running smoothly then I could understand the cry for Freedom, but when the golden goose stops sending eggs then what? Without England's (London's) money what do Scotland and Wales have planned??

That’s politics for you

. I’m sorry that us Scots are such a drain on English resources. Perhaps English Members of Parliament would serve the interests of England better by working to ensure an independent Scotland.

[johnphilip]

20 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I am by no means a fan of Nicola Sturgeon but I would agree with you whole heartedly. She has been the best

Sorry but what is clever about waiting nearly a week after Boris announced  what was to happen.  For her to announce her plans . She had to be different  why did Scotland  have to have a different  track and trace to the rest of the UK.  A track that would not work if you came from Scotland  to England  .

[Mice!]

8 minutes ago, Konor said:

That’s politics for you

. I’m sorry that us Scots are such a drain on English resources. Perhaps English Members of Parliament would serve the interests of England better by working to ensure an independent Scotland.

If English MPs did that there would be uproar,  and it would be a waste of their time.

I hope Scotland don't leave the union, I don't see how they benefit from doing so, but if the SNP continues basically making a nuisance of its self they could get what they want, and then Scotland will be in trouble. 

[button]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

If English MPs did that there would be uproar,  and it would be a waste of their time.

I hope Scotland don't leave the union, I don't see how they benefit from doing so, but if the SNP continues basically making a nuisance of its self they could get what they want, and then Scotland will be in trouble. 

What baffles me is they want independence but they want to be part of the EU and have to abide by their rules. I guess if staying in the EU was so important to Scotland, you have to ask why did only 67% of the electorate turn out to vote? 

[Konor]

13 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

Sorry but what is clever about waiting nearly a week after Boris announced  what was to happen.  For her to announce her plans . She had to be different  why did Scotland  have to have a different  track and trace to the rest of the UK.  A track that would not work if you came from Scotland  to England  .

Polls indicate a high level of satisfaction with how Nicola Sturgeon has handled the pandemic in contrast polls have indicated a high level of dissatisfaction with how Boris Johnson has handled it. 

2 minutes ago, button said:

What baffles me is they want independence but they want to be part of the EU and have to abide by their rules. I guess if staying in the EU was so important to Scotland, you have to ask why did only 67% of the electorate turn out to vote? 

Because 33% of the population were either unable to vote or haven’t sufficient interest in politics to vote I’d guess. I think the turnout to vote at elections in Scotland and England is about equal. Occasionally slightly higher in Scotland.

[Gordon R]

Quote

I’m sorry that us Scots are such a drain on English resources. Perhaps English Members of Parliament would serve the interests of England better by working to ensure an independent Scotland.

Take the chip off your shoulder. We are all a drain on the resources generated in the South East. The South East subsidises the rest of the UK, so wouldn't it be better for them to make themselves independent from the rest?

Just explain to me how Scottish finances would survive without the subsidy. Where is the shortfall going to come from? Is there any sane person who thinks that Scotland could get back into the EU and get subsidies from there? 

As for the polls expressing satisfaction with Krankie - are they always right? She appears to have gone out of her way not to present a united front. If you believe she alone is right, what happened to the NHS and schools in Scotland under her stewardship? 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Gordon R

[johnphilip]

3 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Take the chip off your shoulder. We are all a drain on the resources generated in the South East. The South East subsidises the rest of the UK, so wouldn't it be better for them to make themselves independent from the rest?

Just explain to me how Scottish finances would survive without the subsidy. Where is the shortfall going to come from? Is there any sane person who thinks that Scotland could get back into the EU and get subsidies from there? 

As for the polls expressing satisfaction with Krankie - are they always right? She appears to have gone out of her way not to present a united front. If you believe she alone is right, what happened to the NHS and schools in Scotland under her stewardship? 

Well said polls mean nothing and it depends who is running them .

[Vince Green]

The only thing I would say about Nicola, and it sticks in my craw to say it. She got up every day and spoke, what she said was "on message" and factual. 

[Konor]

7 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Take the chip off your shoulder. We are all a drain on the resources generated in the South East. The South East subsidises the rest of the UK, so wouldn't it be better for them to make themselves independent from the rest?

Just explain to me how Scottish finances would survive without the subsidy. Where is the shortfall going to come from? Is there any sane person who thinks that Scotland could get back into the EU and get subsidies from there? 

As for the polls expressing satisfaction with Krankie - are they always right? She appears to have gone out of her way not to present a united front. If you believe she alone is right, what happened to the NHS and schools in Scotland under her stewardship? 

No chip on my shoulder , a 67% satisfaction vote for Nicola Sturgeon and a 70% dissatisfaction rate for Boris Johnson seems pretty decisive. Perhaps you have other poll figures that cast doubt or contradict those figures.

Perhaps decentralisation would enable other areas of the UK to contribute more to the UK wealth.

Schools exam pass rates have been fairly consistent over the years.

As soon as someone uses populist derogatory terms for any politician I tend to suspect strong bias and a bit of a chip on their shoulder.Nicola Sturgeon’s responsibility lies in dealing with the crisis using the information available to her. I think she has done that to the best of her ability so do the majority of Scots regardless of their views on Scottish independence. 

 

Unlike a few experts on here I am not an economist so can’t enlighten you as to the viability of an independent Scotland.

[oowee]

3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I am by no means a fan of Nicola Sturgeon but I would agree with you whole heartedly. She has been the best

Impressive and stateswoman like. 

2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The only thing I would say about Nicola, and it sticks in my craw to say it. She got up every day and spoke, what she said was "on message" and factual. 

^^^^ This clear and concise. Look at our bumbling troglodyte by comparison. 

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Konor said:

 

 

Perhaps decentralisation would enable other areas of the UK to contribute more to the UK wealth.

 

^^^^ This and moving away from the London centric bias. The introduction of a new constitution that recognises the four nations as intrinsic parts of the UK rather than the UK being England.

Problem with all of that of course is it needs planning willingness and preparation so don't expect it anytime soon from the blue team.

[markm]

I find it strange that so many defend the Scottish government (and Nikeoliar). When you look at covid, they’ve had no-one to challenge them. But facts speak for themselves, over the medium and long term they’ve been in power. Here a just a few - 

1. Ferries. 
2. NHS hospitals / waiting lists.  
3. Free speech.  
4. Schools. 
5. Police Scotland. 
6. Named person. 

[Konor]

11 minutes ago, markm said:

I find it strange that so many defend the Scottish government (and Nikeoliar). When you look at covid, they’ve had no-one to challenge them. But facts speak for themselves, over the medium and long term they’ve been in power. Here a just a few - 

1. Ferries. 
2. NHS hospitals / waiting lists.  
3. Free speech.  
4. Schools. 
5. Police Scotland. 
6. Named person. 

I find criticism of any government far more common and I don’t think the SNP is an exception. The expectations of the population tend to be quite high and the need to criticise even higher. When compared to Boris Johnson however I think Nicola Sturgeon exhibits far more integrity and consistency and has the welfare of all Scots and Scotland at heart. She is a breath of fresh air, probably more than capable of taking on more responsibility for the running of Scotland. If every Scottish politician had more of her qualities including of course Labour ,Conservative ,Greens and LibDems Scotland would have a brighter future.
 

 

[button]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

Impressive and stateswoman like. 

We must be watching someone different, the one I see stresses that she will not make the pandemic political and does nothing but that constantly passing blame and look to score points 

I would like someone to tell me these qualities that she has as I do not see any, I see someone on a mission at any cost to get what they want, let's see what comes out at the Salmond enquiry 

[Demonic69]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

^^^^ This and moving away from the London centric bias.

But this serves the few the best. Work in London for inflated wages, live in Yorkshire where property is cheap. Own a cottage in Wales for letting out and the odd weekend away with the girlies. Own some land in Scotland, maybe an old church or a castle, more holiday income, EU furlough subsidies when available, possibly a ski lodge for the winter slog.

It pays to keep other areas dependent, they can then be abused when required (HS2 anyone?). 

Houses round here are selling at a fantastic rate, loads moving up from Dahn Sahf thanks to Covid letting them work from home, forcing house prices up as they have the cash to throw around. The HS2 corridor is a gold mine for anyone with properties to let/sell.

[Konor]

1 hour ago, button said:

We must be watching someone different, the one I see stresses that she will not make the pandemic political and does nothing but that constantly passing blame and look to score points 

I would like someone to tell me these qualities that she has as I do not see any, I see someone on a mission at any cost to get what they want, let's see what comes out at the Salmond enquiry 

Would you find it easier to list Boris Johnson's qualities? 

[button]

6 minutes ago, Konor said:

Would you find it easier to list Boris Johnson's qualities? 

What's Boris got to do with it? I for one have not said one is better than the other after all they are all politicians, but imho she certainly does not stand out, and from a business perspective and the needs of businesses the SG have no idea, take this past week she wanted Sky to show the old firm game free, was the SG going to compensate Sky for the money they paid for the rights? No, absolute genius!

On a side note in an independent scotland we will not be able to enjoy our field sports as they will soon knock them on the head and if you believe different I would be interested to hear why

[udderlyoffroad]

15 minutes ago, Konor said:

Would you find it easier to list Boris Johnson's qualities? 

It's not a Boris v Nicola thing, at least not for me.

I don't know who you've been watching, but I find her to be a big-state, authoritarian, illiberal, free-speech hating jumped up little dictator.

That doesn't mean Boris' bumbling, 'lead by the doom merchants' Witty and Valance farce is somehow better.  Though at least Boris in the past had some pretensions at being liberal.

As for her approval ratings, er...These are the same pollsters that predicted Ed Miliband for PM, a vote for Remain, Corbyn to win against May, Trump to lose to Hillary...What people tell pollsters and how they vote are 2 different things, especially if said pollster rarely bother to go outside the M25/Edinburgh

[johnphilip]

4 minutes ago, Konor said:

Would you find it easier to list Boris Johnson's qualities? 

Boris Johnson is not hell bent on splitting a country  and its people . Splitting families  causing unrest within these families  she Nicola has always hated the Tories .

Its a romantic dream to have independence  from the rest of the UK a dream that has not been thought out . Different  currency,  borders control . How many vehicles pass between Scotland  and England each day .

To become independent  from the rest if the UK were over 60% of it trade is done . Then want to join the EU . What form of independence  is that . 

A political part who in the Seventies voted strongly  to have no part in what was the then EEC .

She should never be given another vote on independence  we had a vote and desided to stay as part of  the UK . If she was given a vote and lost again . She would want another , and another . So better she does not get one and as they say

 

" GET ON WITH YOUR DAY JOB " 

[button]

9 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I don't know who you've been watching, but I find her to be a big-state, authoritarian, illiberal, free-speech hating jumped up little dictator.

100% 

[Gordon R]

Krankie's wish to join the EU is nothing more than fantasy. Perhaps Konor could explain how this could ever happen. 

Forget the economics - as Konor is not qualified - Spain will veto any application. It's not rocket science

Edited October 21, 2020 by Gordon R

[button]

13 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

To become independent  from the rest if the UK were over 60% of it trade is done . Then want to join the EU . What form of independence  is that

Bang on 

The question I would ask is if they are going to lose so much trade with the EU after Brexit, why are they doing so little in comparison with what they do with the rest of the UK while they have had access? What changes? Think we know the answer, nothing! I do know a number of businesses made plans to relocate should the result of the last referendum have been for Yes and guess what the plans are still there!

[Demonic69]

Until Scotland started talking about becoming independent, I'd never heard anyone in England suggesting we should ditch them. I've never hated the Scots, never had a reason to, but I've known a fair few who hate the English. The attitude towards the English, since the SNP started banging the drum has only worsened and has become reciprocal in defence.

If the SNP gave up and went quiet I reckon, after a few years, we'd be back to no real animosity between us.

I see this as being different to the EU. Leavers don't hate Europeans (some do, obviously), but they do hate the EU, the control it has, what it takes and what it stands for.

[johnphilip]

39 minutes ago, Demonic69 said:

Until Scotland started talking about becoming independent, I'd never heard anyone in England suggesting we should ditch them. I've never hated the Scots, never had a reason to, but I've known a fair few who hate the English. The attitude towards the English, since the SNP started banging the drum has only worsened and has become reciprocal in defence.

If the SNP gave up and went quiet I reckon, after a few years, we'd be back to no real animosity between us.

I see this as being different to the EU. Leavers don't hate Europeans (some do, obviously), but they do hate the EU, the control it has, what it takes and what it stands for.

Well said , I think you have summed it up .