Time for independence?

[Konor]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Krankie's wish to join the EU is nothing more than fantasy. Perhaps Konor could explain how this could ever happen. 

Forget the economics - as Konor is not qualified - Spain will veto any application. It's not rocket science

 

I'm not surprised that you take this personally, a sure sign of someone with a chip on their shoulder. Sorry I don't have any answer to your political questions just an opinion on Nicola Sturgeons handling of the covid epidemic

. Scotland has never voted Tory, Labour is lost and SNP are doing well, its not rocket science. 

It seems to trouble you that a Scot should vote for the SNP, well its not unusual, look at the number of  seats they hold in the Commons and the Scottish parliament

[Konor]

2/3 of people living in Scotland voted to remain in the EU. As the SNP is by far the most popular party in Scotland does surely no one would think it is surprising that they reflect the vote of the people in Scotland and favour EU membership. 

[udderlyoffroad]

19 minutes ago, Konor said:

Sorry I don't have any answer to your political questions just an opinion on Nicola Sturgeons handling of the covid epidemic

Huh?

Look at the rate of infections, or indeed any other metric for Aberdeen, compare and contrast with surrounding areas, and ask yourself why Aberdeen was locked down when others weren't?  Is it possibly because the SNP do not get many votes in Aberdeen?

10 minutes ago, Konor said:

2/3 of people living in Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

Incorrect.  62% of the 67.2% of eligible voters who could be bothered to turn up, voted to remain.  Still leaves 30.8%, or 1.018 million people who voted to leave.

It gets worse, if you're playing the numbers game.  A quick google of the SNP's General Election results for 2017 and 2019 respectively, tells you that the total votes the SNP gained are 977k and 1.2k respectively.

In other words, (in 2017 at least) more people in Scotland voted for Brexit than the SNP!

 

 

[johnphilip]

48 minutes ago, Konor said:

 

I'm not surprised that you take this personally, a sure sign of someone with a chip on their shoulder. Sorry I don't have any answer to your political questions just an opinion on Nicola Sturgeons handling of the covid epidemic

. Scotland has never voted Tory, Labour is lost and SNP are doing well, its not rocket science. 

It seems to trouble you that a Scot should vote for the SNP, well its not unusual, look at the number of  seats they hold in the Commons and the Scottish parliament

The SNP , did not get in because they were the better party . At that time many did not have a choice Labour  were been ruined with all that was going on with Corbin .

As to your saying you don't have a answer to the political question , do you not think it is important  that you do know as it could effect you . The vote on the leaving the EU . Was a UK VOTE . We are still a united kingdom .

[button]

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

The SNP , did not get in because they were the better party . At that time many did not have a choice Labour  were been ruined with all that was going on with Corbin .

As to your saying you don't have a answer to the political question , do you not think it is important  that you do know as it could effect you . The vote on the leaving the EU . Was a UK VOTE . We are still a united kingdom .

Some how they have turned it around to Scotland leaving the EU, but as you say the question was should the uk.....

If it wasnt Brexit they would have found another reason to call another referendum, it they dont they font have a purpose or use, they certainly cant run a country, look at the deficit

[Konor]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Huh?

Look at the rate of infections, or indeed any other metric for Aberdeen, compare and contrast with surrounding areas, and ask yourself why Aberdeen was locked down when others weren't?  Is it possibly because the SNP do not get many votes in Aberdeen?

Incorrect.  62% of the 67.2% of eligible voters who could be bothered to turn up, voted to remain.  Still leaves 30.8%, or 1.018 million people who voted to leave.

It gets worse, if you're playing the numbers game.  A quick google of the SNP's General Election results for 2017 and 2019 respectively, tells you that the total votes the SNP gained are 977k and 1.2k respectively.

In other words, (in 2017 at least) more people in Scotland voted for Brexit than the SNP!

 

 

Udderly something do you seriously think that Aberdeen was victimised because of its voting history?? 

62% of those voting voted to remain in the EU in Scotland and around the same percentage in England voted to leave. I think that demonstrates a vast difference in political thinking. 

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

The SNP , did not get in because they were the better party . At that time many did not have a choice Labour  were been ruined with all that was going on with Corbin .

As to your saying you don't have a answer to the political question , do you not think it is important  that you do know as it could effect you . The vote on the leaving the EU . Was a UK VOTE . We are still a united kingdom .

Who was the better party then? Labour, Tory,Libdems,or the Green Party. 

Political opinion is just that opinion or are you saying if we thought about it enough there would be only one correct answer. 

 

[Konor]

39 minutes ago, button said:

Some how they have turned it around to Scotland leaving the EU, but as you say the question was should the uk.....

If it wasnt Brexit they would have found another reason to call another referendum, it they dont they font have a purpose or use, they certainly cant run a country, look at the deficit

If they feel they have the interests of all those living in Scotland at heart then I can understand their wish to self govern. 

[button]

1 minute ago, Konor said:

If they feel they have the interests of all those living in Scotland at heart then I can understand their wish to self govern. 

If by they you mean the SNP, they are interested in themselves

When they can put a credible argument forward how they would finance an independent scotland, I will listen, some how I think it may be a very long wait

[Konor]

7 minutes ago, button said:

If by they you mean the SNP, they are interested in themselves

When they can put a credible argument forward how they would finance an independent scotland, I will listen, some how I think it may be a very long wait

Just have to agree to disagree button neither of us are alone in our opinions. All the best

[SpringDon]

What I find despicable about most senior politicians, and particularly one who advocates a nebulous independence, is that they prize a place in history and self aggrandisement above all thIngs; knowing that they will not have to live in the world they usher in as only “ordinary” people will suffer the consequences.

[johnphilip]

30 minutes ago, Konor said:

Udderly something do you seriously think that Aberdeen was victimised because of its voting history?? 

62% of those voting voted to remain in the EU in Scotland and around the same percentage in England voted to leave. I think that demonstrates a vast difference in political thinking. 

Who was the better party then? Labour, Tory,Libdems,or the Green Party. 

Political opinion is just that opinion or are you saying if we thought about it enough there would be only one correct answer. 

 

I did not say any party was better , I said at the time people did not have much choice . You are supporting a party  were you were questioned about something political  . You could not answer it . Yet you still remain a supporter of something you are not aware of . How much more of the Snp makey up rubbish  do you not understand.  Its a dream they wish to see fulfilled at what ever cost to the nation  when they have all left , who will be around to pick up the pieces.  I hate any polical party who are set out to destroy a country , in the name of there own glory . 

[udderlyoffroad]

3 minutes ago, Konor said:

Udderly something do you seriously think that Aberdeen was victimised because of its voting history?? 

I know a few people living north of the border who genuinely believe this to be the case. 

Maybe you should check the SNP's voting record in Westminster to see how petty minded they are. 

For instance, next time you're south of the border, grabbing some supplies on a Sunday and get chucked out of the shop at 4pm on the dot, bemoaning that in Scotland you could carry on browsing to your heart's content, google which party killed off the bill to extend opening hours in England, despite the fact that it had nothing to do with their constituencies.

This is why Owwee amongst others are arguing for a written constitution, we could get rid of an awful lot of this petty **** if we had a more...let's call it United States of Great Britain arrangement.  This should include English MPs only being eligible to vote on English matters (this is far cheaper and less bureaucratic than a separate 'English parliament).  Some on this thread appear to be arguing for a roll-back of devolution.  That won't happen, the genie will not go back in the bottle.

 

49 minutes ago, Konor said:

62% of those voting voted to remain in the EU in Scotland and around the same percentage in England voted to leave

There you go mangling numbers again; 62% of the 2/3rds turnout voted to remain, the percentage of people voting to leave in England was actually 53.4% of a 73% turnout.

 

53 minutes ago, Konor said:

I think that demonstrates a vast difference in political thinking. 

I think it demonstrates that it isn't anywhere near as clearcut as the SNP or the completely-enthralled-with Nicola-media would have you believe. 

The Alex Salmond affair alone would've brought her down had she been of a different political persuasion.  Just look at the hollering and wailing of the Cummings affair in the media, then compare and contrast with Ferrier.

It might be worth considering, the reason people south of the border keep such an eye on her, is that whatever large-state nonsense she tries to introduce, the civil service and commenteriat leap on with glee down south.  It appears to be have been decided, for instance, that minimum alcohol pricing, is but a matter of time before its introduction down south.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

I hate any polical party who are set out to destroy a country , in the name of there own glory . 

From my perspective (nearly 30 years up here) this is what is happening. Whoever gets Scotland across the finish line will have the glory, some other schmuck has to sort through the rubble.

Probably the same as bojo and Brexit, but that's another topic.

[Konor]

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

I did not say any party was better , I said at the time people did not have much choice . You are supporting a party  were you were questioned about something political  . You could not answer it . Yet you still remain a supporter of something you are not aware of . How much more of the Snp makey up rubbish  do you not understand.  Its a dream they wish to see fulfilled at what ever cost to the nation  when they have all left , who will be around to pick up the pieces.  I hate any polical party who are set out to destroy a country , in the name of there own glory . 

 

4 hours ago, johnphilip said:

The SNP , did not get in because they were the better party . At that time many did not have a choice Labour  were been ruined with all that was going on with Corbin .

As to your saying you don't have a answer to the political question , do you not think it is important  that you do know as it could effect you . The vote on the leaving the EU . Was a UK VOTE . We are still a united kingdom .

You did state that the SNP did not get in because they were the better party. In your estimation who is the better party?
Surely you don’t consider it to be the Conservative party ,they lost 7 seats in Scotland in the last general election and only won 6 seats.The SNP in contrast won 48 seats ,a gain of 13. 

[Konor]

2 hours ago, johnphilip said:

I did not say any party was better , I said at the time people did not have much choice . You are supporting a party  were you were questioned about something political  . You could not answer it . Yet you still remain a supporter of something you are not aware of . How much more of the Snp makey up rubbish  do you not understand.  Its a dream they wish to see fulfilled at what ever cost to the nation  when they have all left , who will be around to pick up the pieces.  I hate any polical party who are set out to destroy a country , in the name of there own glory . 

I didn’t have you down as an anti imperialist johnphilip that was a surprise

[Vince Green]

4 hours ago, Konor said:

2/3 of people living in Scotland voted to remain in the EU. As the SNP is by far the most popular party in Scotland does surely no one would think it is surprising that they reflect the vote of the people in Scotland and favour EU membership. 

I want to join the Royal Polo Club at Windsor but I know what the answer would be if I applied

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[Konor]

1 minute ago, Vince Green said:

I want to join the Royal Polo Club at Windsor but I know what the answer would be if I applied

I’d go for it if I were you, you might get lucky 

[Gordon R]

He has a chance - unlike Scotland's dream of joining the EU. The Polo club is possible - joining the EU isn't.

I would like anyone who thinks Scotland should be independent and join the EU to explain how it would be possible. I will sit and watch the skies for the flying pig squadron to take off.

[Konor]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

He has a chance - unlike Scotland's dream of joining the EU. The Polo club is possible - joining the EU isn't.

I would like anyone who thinks Scotland should be independent and join the EU to explain how it would be possible. I will sit and watch the skies for the flying pig squadron to take off.

EU membership or not, Scots have little faith in Boris Johnson's government to look after Scotland's interests. With the ever growing popularity of the SNP and the call for independence growing it seems likely the UK government will offer the option of a second referendum or a so called velvet no. Either option would give Scots a greater say in the running of their country leaving England more free to concentrate on running theirs and the added bonus of not having to subsidise the Scots should we opt for independence. Perhaps England will go on to create their second empire. 

Surely a win win for everyone. 

[SpringDon]

14 minutes ago, Konor said:

EU membership or not, Scots have little faith in Boris Johnson's government to look after Scotland's interests.
<snip>
 

Out of interest, what are Scotland’s interests? Are they the same as those of (say) a working person who happens to live in Scotland? And are they so very different from those of a working person in (say) the West Country?

[markm]

It wouldn’t be a bonus to “not subsidise an independent Scotland.” 

I also think the whole of the UK should be asked. It would be a clear, big FU.

It may just make Scots realise how much they’ve sickened their closest, subsidising relatives. Which I would find very sad. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by markm

[Konor]

24 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

Out of interest, what are Scotland’s interests? Are they the same as those of (say) a working person who happens to live in Scotland? And are they so very different from those of a working person in (say) the West Country?

I would say Scotland’s interests would include the best interests of anyone living or working in Scotland.

[button]

48 minutes ago, Konor said:

EU membership or not, Scots have little faith in Boris Johnson's government to look after Scotland's interests. With the ever growing popularity of the SNP and the call for independence growing it seems likely the UK government will offer the option of a second referendum or a so called velvet no. Either option would give Scots a greater say in the running of their country leaving England more free to concentrate on running theirs and the added bonus of not having to subsidise the Scots should we opt for independence. Perhaps England will go on to create their second empire. 

Surely a win win for everyone. 

Can you explain how an independent Scotland will be funded? This is the key question and yet no credible solution is put forward. NS keeps talking about increased borrowing powers, how is this to be repaid? Pretty fundemental I would say, if there is indyref 2 before putting a cross in Yes I'd ensure this is pretty clear, actually forget that do they know the currency that would be used yet? 

The plan has more holes in it than a big block of holey cheese

[Konor]

26 minutes ago, markm said:

It wouldn’t be a bonus to “not subsidise an independent Scotland.” 

I also think the whole of the UK should be asked. It would be a clear, big FU.

It may just make Scots realise how much they’ve sickened their closest, subsidising relatives. Which I would find very sad. 

Sorry you are taking it so personally but self determination for Scots is not a big FU to England.