Simple debt question

[Bobba]

On 24/10/2020 at 15:21, henry d said:

Unfortunately we didn't see it in time as they live in Cornwall but he is mentally, verbally and emotionally abusive and she is unable to get out of the relationship as she feels totally reliant on him due to how much he controls her

This could well be a serious case of domestic violence where police forces are supposed to have specialist teams to advise and deal with. But from what you describe your SIL will not walk down that street for fear of repercussions.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Bobba said:

This could well be a serious case of domestic violence where police forces are supposed to have specialist teams to advise and deal with. But from what you describe your SIL will not walk down that street for fear of repercussions.

It is exactly that, however we are working on it by getting her to reflect on what is and what isn't a good relationship, but as it has been going on for around 25 years it's hard to break. Thanks everyone for your concerns.

[arjimlad]

Henry, she cannot normally be held responsible for his debts but if a creditor gets a CCJ against him, they can register a charge against his share of any jointly owned properties and in some cases force a sale.

Whilst her share isn't available to pay the creditor, this can have difficult consequences as she may have to sell her home. 

[henry d]

Can a CCJ be given against a deceased person? As they have in the past consolidated/cleared his debts, she is more worried that he may die and she is left to clear his debts. Hopefully they can get his finances sorted.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

14 minutes ago, henry d said:

Can a CCJ be given against a deceased person? As they have in the past consolidated/cleared his debts, she is more worried that he may die and she is left to clear his debts. Hopefully they can get his finances sorted.

But still she stays with him?

[ehb102]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But still she stays with him?

I never met a married woman who left her debt creating ex who didn't end up paying off more than half the debt. It's not that simple, especially if your ex is fraudulently using your identity.

[mel b3]

Jesus wept , no wonder the poor bloke drinks . Having to live his life with interfering busy body relatives poking their noses into his business , and all his Mrs cares about is his money when he's dead . That kind of interference and harassment would be enough to turn anyone to drink.

[amateur]

25 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Jesus wept , no wonder the poor bloke drinks . Having to live his life with interfering busy body relatives poking their noses into his business , and all his Mrs cares about is his money when he's dead . That kind of interference and harassment would be enough to turn anyone to drink.

Classic PW

[henry d]

7 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But still she stays with him?

Yes, when someone starts controlling your life they don't start off at full pelt it's very subtle to start with and then gets ramped up. Last time they cleared his debts they consolidated them and took another loan, she just wants him to stop buying expensive tat and get the cards paid off and she would be happy even with his abusive nature.

2 hours ago, ehb102 said:

... It's not that simple, especially if your ex is fraudulently using your identity.

As far as we know he hasn't got money/cards in her name as he works shifts and can't always be there for the postman.

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

Jesus wept , no wonder the poor bloke drinks . Having to live his life with interfering busy body relatives poking their noses into his business , and all his Mrs cares about is his money when he's dead . That kind of interference and harassment would be enough to turn anyone to drink.

I don't really care about him that much, I don't wish him ill. His drinking started not long after they were married, 6-8 pints in the pub every day then a six pack of cider at home, he then went to bed late afternoon or early evening, depending on shifts. He was quite charming and funny back then, but would make disparaging remarks about her, which steadily increased along with ensuring he knew where she was at all times, he would have a melt down if she was talking to my wife on the phone and couldn't get her which meant if he phoned she stopped the call to my wife.

I really care about my SIL as she and my wife are twins and she deserves a better life than the one she has at the moment but her pension plan is floundering and she may have to work until 70 (another ten years) to make ends meet that is why she is worried as he will just fritter away all his money and hers too if he could.

[mel b3]

44 minutes ago, henry d said:

 

I don't really care about him that much, I don't wish him ill. His drinking started not long after they were married, 6-8 pints in the pub every day then a six pack of cider at home, he then went to bed late afternoon or early evening, depending on shifts. He was quite charming and funny back then, but would make disparaging remarks about her, which steadily increased along with ensuring he knew where she was at all times, he would have a melt down if she was talking to my wife on the phone and couldn't get her which meant if he phoned she stopped the call to my wife.

I really care about my SIL as she and my wife are twins and she deserves a better life than the one she has at the moment but her pension plan is floundering and she may have to work until 70 (another ten years) to make ends meet that is why she is worried as he will just fritter away all his money and hers too if he could.

so his drinking started after he became part of your family ?. 

6 - 8 pints a day may well seem like a lot to you , to others its just a quiet drink to unwind after a hard day at work  , and to some it will be a painkiller before going home to a family that gang up on him , and bully him into doing what they want. either way , its his business and not yours.

obviously if hes been working shifts , hes no layabout , and gets out and earns his own money . my wife spends quite a lot of my money (as well as her own) , on things that i mostly consider tat , thats just married life . and again , between a man and his wife.

your brother in law most probably thinks that guns , fishing rods , and kayaks , are just tat , and a complete waste of money , how would you feel if his wife was constantly telling your wife that youre wasting the household budget on rubbish , and that she should divorce you for it ?. 

myself and my wife insult each other on a regular (minute by minute) basis . it regularly goes like this "whats for tea fatty ? , "nothing for you because youre already too fat !. no offence is meant , or taken. and its our business .

on my break at work , i have 28 minutes to deal with any home issues(usually customer orders) that have to be dealt with during the working day , if i phone my wife during those 28 minutes(those 28 minutes can be anywhere between 7am and 1pm) , i expect her to end the call that she might be on (unless its a customer or other important call )  , i most certainly wouldnt consider myself a wife abuser because of this.

i dont know your brother in law , but i feel sorry for him , he must have had years of grief from you and your wife , and now you seem intent on getting the whole of the internet to kick the bloke while hes down as well  .  if it were me , id also be living at the opposite end of the country to get away from the family interference . if you feel so strongly about your sister in laws situation , offer her the opportunity to live with you , and you can support her financially and emotionally  , its what id happily do for someone that i cared about. 

 

 

 

[henry d]

3 hours ago, mel b3 said:

so his drinking started after he became part of your family ?. 

No, submariner, didn't drink at sea but went on the lash ashore.

6 - 8 pints a day may well seem like a lot to you...

that was just the starter, as I said there was usually a six pack at home afterwards, I'm sure that this kind of drinking 7 days a week is not usual nor healthy

, and to some it will be a painkiller before going home to a family that gang up on him , and bully him into doing what they want. either way , its his business and not yours.

They live over 500 miles away, his abusive behaviour is our business

obviously if hes been working shifts , hes no layabout , and gets out and earns his own money . my wife spends quite a lot of my money (as well as her own) , on things that i mostly consider tat , thats just married life . and again , between a man and his wife.

Agreed he works and earns his money, but if he lives beyond his means including having to increase their mortgage to cover his debts (the first time) then he obviously has a problem.

your brother in law most probably thinks that guns , fishing rods , and kayaks , are just tat , and a complete waste of money , how would you feel if his wife was constantly telling your wife that youre wasting the household budget on rubbish , and that she should divorce you for it ?. 

Firstly I have not gone into debt for the sports I followed, nor did our budget suffer, we even helped support our daughter through both her degree and masters as well as my own degree. As to his spending; coffee machine (barista style) is acting up and needs a clean, does he clean it? Nope, buys another as a backup. Seven TV's two being used the others surplus just because he wanted "better ones". He bought 3 settees/suites in 5 years. Goes shopping (bus and ferry to get to town) twice a day usually. Buys Pretty Green shirts etc at a ton a time or more and when he gets bored with them a few months later takes a pair of scissors to them rather than sell or recycle them. He buys things on a whim and weeks later are binned, they have a large cooker (can't remember the name, expensive one) but he bought a mini oven with hob for the worktop then bought another because someone said that they were better. Did he sell it? No it's in the understairs cupboard.

Neither of us has said to her to divorce him, even if we wish it ourselves, we've offered help.

myself and my wife insult each other on a regular (minute by minute) basis .... 

<Snipped>

on my break at work , i have 28 minutes to deal with any home issues(usually customer orders) that have to be dealt with during the working day , if i phone my wife during those 28 minutes(those 28 minutes can be anywhere between 7am and 1pm) , i expect her to end the call that she might be on (unless its a customer or other important call )  , i most certainly wouldnt consider myself a wife abuser because of this.

Poor argument, he is not in the same business, he is a hall porter in a military establishment and phones because he can keep tabs on her.

i dont know your brother in law (correct you don't, not even remotely), but i feel sorry for him , he must have had years of grief from you and your wife , (incorrect, see above) and now you seem intent on getting the whole of the internet to kick the bloke while hes down as well  (nope I needed to give context to the story, for you I have added even more, if you want I could tell you about him hitting her because he said she was snoring).  if it were me , id also be living at the opposite end of the country to get away from the family interference (as above, that's where they live, shows how much you take for granted or just use to have a dig at me). if you feel so strongly about your sister in laws situation , offer her the opportunity to live with you , and you can support her financially and emotionally  , its what id happily do for someone that i cared about. We have, but it is a thing about serial abusers that they make their victims totally reliant on them, as I said she is my wife's twin sister they are closer than most siblings and I would have no problems with that.

 

 

 

Ok, now you know a bit more context do you want to add something regarding the original question or are you going to take the subject off on another tangent just because you think it's funny or you want to have a go at me?

PS Sort out a decent argument first that doesn't have too many holes in if you are going down the tangent route.

[12gauge82]

I see Mels point, there's often two sides to an argument and the other half isn't here to defend himself. 

[mel b3]

6 hours ago, henry d said:

Ok, now you know a bit more context do you want to add something regarding the original question or are you going to take the subject off on another tangent just because you think it's funny or you want to have a go at me?

PS Sort out a decent argument first that doesn't have too many holes in if you are going down the tangent route.

I don't think it's funny in the slightest , and I'm certainly not trying to have a go at you.

You just can't see that you're the bullies , no wonder the poor bloke is in a mess .  

And before you start with your usual " if you don't agree with me , you must be thick " routine , don't waste your time . I'm clever enough to know the difference between a bully and a victim.

[henry d]

3 hours ago, mel b3 said:

And before you start with your usual " if you don't agree with me , you must be thick " routine , don't waste your time . I'm clever enough to know the difference between a bully and a victim.

However you don't know the full facts and have made assumptions. You are right that he is in a mess, he's been there before and he is back to square one, perhaps it is to do with his father, also an abuser although he differed and was violent to his mum, and was also an alcoholic and died of a stroke.

Bully and victim, yeah one of each in this relationship, he is a vicious bully and she the victim.

[martyn2233]

14 hours ago, mel b3 said:

so his drinking started after he became part of your family ?. 

6 - 8 pints a day may well seem like a lot to you , to others its just a quiet drink to unwind after a hard day at work  , and to some it will be a painkiller before going home to a family that gang up on him , and bully him into doing what they want. either way , its his business and not yours.

obviously if hes been working shifts , hes no layabout , and gets out and earns his own money . my wife spends quite a lot of my money (as well as her own) , on things that i mostly consider tat , thats just married life . and again , between a man and his wife.

your brother in law most probably thinks that guns , fishing rods , and kayaks , are just tat , and a complete waste of money , how would you feel if his wife was constantly telling your wife that youre wasting the household budget on rubbish , and that she should divorce you for it ?. 

myself and my wife insult each other on a regular (minute by minute) basis . it regularly goes like this "whats for tea fatty ? , "nothing for you because youre already too fat !. no offence is meant , or taken. and its our business .

on my break at work , i have 28 minutes to deal with any home issues(usually customer orders) that have to be dealt with during the working day , if i phone my wife during those 28 minutes(those 28 minutes can be anywhere between 7am and 1pm) , i expect her to end the call that she might be on (unless its a customer or other important call )  , i most certainly wouldnt consider myself a wife abuser because of this.

i dont know your brother in law , but i feel sorry for him , he must have had years of grief from you and your wife , and now you seem intent on getting the whole of the internet to kick the bloke while hes down as well  .  if it were me , id also be living at the opposite end of the country to get away from the family interference . if you feel so strongly about your sister in laws situation , offer her the opportunity to live with you , and you can support her financially and emotionally  , its what id happily do for someone that i cared about. 

 

 

 

Good post Mel 👍

[Lloyd90]

On 27/10/2020 at 05:27, mel b3 said:

I don't think it's funny in the slightest , and I'm certainly not trying to have a go at you.

You just can't see that you're the bullies , no wonder the poor bloke is in a mess .  

And before you start with your usual " if you don't agree with me , you must be thick " routine , don't waste your time . I'm clever enough to know the difference between a bully and a victim.

Do you have some sort of disagreement with Henry? 
 

You’ve said there’s 2 sides to a story then immediately started attacking him. 
 

Obviously the man in question (brother in law) would complain and say he has done nothing wrong, and Mel does have a point, this may just be considered an interfering family who do need to mind their own business, but your being quite rude calling Henry and his wife bullies and the brother in law a victim 🤣🤣 get off it! 
 

Also if you consider someone drinking 6-8 pints every day a casual drinker then you have a serious problem with alcohol, and I imagine your FEO would consider you unfit to hold a licence if you were knocking back that amount, you would be an alcoholic without doubt! 
 

 

 

The best point that Mel did however make, is that it’s her business. If my wife had these sorts of issues with getting into debt and didn’t heed warning to cut it out, I can’t see what options you’d be left with other than leaving. You can’t force someone else to be what you want them to be. 
 

Offer her to live with you whilst she gets a divorce and becomes financially independent is a fair option if your willing to do it.

 

If it’s as bad an issue and as big a worry to her as you say, then remaining in that situation just seems like utter madness. 

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Do you have some sort of disagreement with Henry? 
 

You’ve said there’s 2 sides to a story then immediately started attacking him. 

i have no problem , and i didnt attack him . had we been face to face , i would have been much more blunt and honest in my opinion of how his brother in law is being bullied , three people having a go at a sick man is bullying . i wont mention my thoughts on the fact that their only concern seems to be his money when he dies.
 

Obviously the man in question (brother in law) would complain and say he has done nothing wrong, and Mel does have a point, this may just be considered an interfering family who do need to mind their own business, but your being quite rude calling Henry and his wife bullies and the brother in law a victim 🤣🤣 get off it! 

how would you feel lloyd if your partner and a couple of her family were telling you what to spend your hard earned cash on ?, would you think that it was acceptable ?, and would you give up shooting to please them ?.
 

Also if you consider someone drinking 6-8 pints every day a casual drinker then you have a serious problem with alcohol, and I imagine your FEO would consider you unfit to hold a licence if you were knocking back that amount, you would be an alcoholic without doubt! 

youll have to point out where i said that drinking 6 - 8 pints every day makes you a casual drinker . im pretty much tea total , and have been for many years , but if i did drink , its none of your business whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

The best point that Mel did however make, is that it’s her business. If my wife had these sorts of issues with getting into debt and didn’t heed warning to cut it out, I can’t see what options you’d be left with other than leaving. You can’t force someone else to be what you want them to be. 
 

Offer her to live with you whilst she gets a divorce and becomes financially independent is a fair option if your willing to do it.

 

If it’s as bad an issue and as big a worry to her as you say, then remaining in that situation just seems like utter madness. 

business between a man and his wife , is between a man and his wife . family members who poke their noses into a couples business destroy families , and destroy people . if advice or opinions are asked for , then give them , if help is asked for , then give it , anything else is just interference.

 

over the years , ive seen several friends , both male and female , brought to their knees by interfering family . one male friend took his own life , because his parents(mainly his mother via gossip)  were convinced that his wife had cheated on him (she hadnt) . they hounded him daily to leave her , until eventually he couldnt take any more , he drove to another friends farm and put a hosepipe from the exhaust pipe into his car . 

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

 

[Lloyd90]

6 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

business between a man and his wife , is between a man and his wife . family members who poke their noses into a couples business destroy families , and destroy people . if advice or opinions are asked for , then give them , if help is asked for , then give it , anything else is just interference.

 

over the years , ive seen several friends , both male and female , brought to their knees by interfering family . one male friend took his own life , because his parents(mainly his mother via gossip)  were convinced that his wife had cheated on him (she hadnt) . they hounded him daily to leave her , until eventually he couldnt take any more , he drove to another friends farm and put a hosepipe from the exhaust pipe into his car . 

 

 

Your going from one extreme to the other. 
 

Coercive control and domestic abuse are rife in this country, and the view point that no matter what happens inside a domestic house is no one else’s business is archaic, and leads to abuse going on for years. 
 

Would you think it was no one else’s business if he was hitting her about? 
 

 

On the flip side, just as Henry’s sister in-law has the option to leave her husband (although it’s never as simple as that) your friend had the option to tell his overly interfering mother to F-off!! 
 

That’s not a normal reaction to an over interfering family member. 
 

Using extreme examples on either of the scale doesn’t help anyone. 
 

Do you want me to list examples of domestic violence and coercive control? I can if you want, see it every day in work, me listing off examples doesn’t help anyone. 

[clangerman]

30 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

business between a man and his wife , is between a man and his wife . family members who poke their noses into a couples business destroy families , and destroy people . if advice or opinions are asked for , then give them , if help is asked for , then give it , anything else is just interference.

 

bang on the money one of the ex in-laws has died without ever holding their great grand child other one crys in the window watching him play in the park opposite unless asked stay OUT of other peoples business 

[mel b3]

20 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Your going from one extreme to the other. 
 

Coercive control and domestic abuse are rife in this country, and the view point that no matter what happens inside a domestic house is no one else’s business is archaic, and leads to abuse going on for years. 
 

Would you think it was no one else’s business if he was hitting her about? 

ok ill bite . stop talking like a fool , nobody thinks that its acceptable .
 

 

On the flip side, just as Henry’s sister in-law has the option to leave her husband (although it’s never as simple as that) your friend had the option to tell his overly interfering mother to F-off!! 

he was a damned nice guy , that didnt want to upset anyone , he tried to keep the peace until he couldnt stand it anymore.
 

That’s not a normal reaction to an over interfering family member. 

no its not a normal reaction , but its the place where he ended up due to family bullying.
 

Using extreme examples on either of the scale doesn’t help anyone. 
 

Do you want me to list examples of domestic violence and coercive control? I can if you want, see it every day in work, me listing off examples doesn’t help anyone. 

i know that you think you know more than anyone on such matters lloyd , but ive seen more than enough of real life to know exactly how it works thankyou.

list what you want lloyd , i have no interest whatsoever in your professional theories . 

ill be quite blunt , i made my mind up about the type of person that you are not long after you joined the site , the post when you wanted to get revenge on a young female housemate , who you spoke about in the most derogatory way  , my mind was made up then , as to your character as a man , and youve written nothing since to change my mind . you may well have qualifications and lots of theory to work in a caring profession , but that doesnt mean that you actually care.

im not going to get dragged into a facebook style slanging match , so im out of this thread now .

 

[AVB]

23 minutes ago, clangerman said:

bang on the money one of the ex in-laws has died without ever holding their great grand child other one crys in the window watching him play in the park opposite unless asked stay OUT of other peoples business 

So you shouldn’t help a person in an abusive relationship? Often women won’t ask for help as they are too frightened. There is a big difference between unnecessarily poking your nose in and trying to help somebody in a very sensitive situation. 

[clangerman]

7 minutes ago, AVB said:

So you shouldn’t help a person in an abusive relationship? Often women won’t ask for help as they are too frightened. There is a big difference between unnecessarily poking your nose in and trying to help somebody in a very sensitive situation. 

i have dealt with someone putting hands on a female family member i know the difference between help and interfering behind peoples backs 

[AVB]

8 minutes ago, clangerman said:

i have dealt with someone putting hands on a female family member i know the difference between help and interfering behind peoples backs 

And how do you know what is going on without an element of interfering? Of course giving the wife a slap every now and then is between a man and a wife according to some. 

[Lloyd90]

44 minutes ago, AVB said:

And how do you know what is going on without an element of interfering? Of course giving the wife a slap every now and then is between a man and a wife according to some. 

According to Mel by the sounds of it. 
 

No one else’s business, look the other way. Don’t get involved. I didn’t see any bruises or black eyes 👀. 
 

 

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, mel b3 said:

business between a man and his wife , is between a man and his wife . family members who poke their noses into a couples business destroy families , and destroy people . if advice or opinions are asked for , then give them , if help is asked for , then give it , anything else is just interference.

 

over the years , ive seen several friends , both male and female , brought to their knees by interfering family . one male friend took his own life , because his parents(mainly his mother via gossip)  were convinced that his wife had cheated on him (she hadnt) . they hounded him daily to leave her , until eventually he couldnt take any more , he drove to another friends farm and put a hosepipe from the exhaust pipe into his car . 

 

Couldn't agree more

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

According to Mel by the sounds of it. 
 

No one else’s business, look the other way. Don’t get involved. I didn’t see any bruises or black eyes 👀. 
 

 

Let's not get dramatic now!