oldypigeonpopper Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Mice! said: Been a long time since they helped the working man. Hello, have they ever 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 However badly the Tories do, Labour come up with a way of making them look better than Labour. It has to be a gift, as it is something that seems to come so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 this will re-ignite the fight between corbyn and starmer....no love lost there......bet starmer is spitting blood and feathers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Gordon R said: However badly the Tories do, Labour come up with a way of making them look better than Labour. It has to be a gift, as it is something that seems to come so easily. This. Corbyn is poison, and has thankfully reignited the class hatred which is always on a slow burner, that many of his devotees have for those they deem as privileged, whilst striving for everything they have. The hilarious thing is that the party voted a person with title into leadership! 😀 Edited November 18, 2020 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Labour has 'structural' problems; Fundamental to this is that the 'leader' is really mainly the leader of the 'Parliamentary Labour Party' (PLP) - i.e. the MPs. The main party is governed by the National Executive Committee (NEC) - which is made up of a much broader base including the Parliamentary Party, the Trades Unions, Constituency Labour parties and socialist societies. It makes the main decisions - backed up by votes in the party conference. Choice of candidates (potential MPs and local elected representatives) is (in recent times) the remit of the constituency party and the NEC, not the parliamentary party. The problem for the 'leader' is that he is 'leading' the PLP, and nominal 'party leader', but not leading the Party in that it is governed and policy, rules etc. set by the NEC. This set up leaves fundamental control in the hands of the bodies mainly controlled by the 'activist' element - who are in general much further to the left than the average voter (or trade union member). This was encouraged under the Corbyn years because it was seen as consolidating the hold of the left. Many MPs were uncomfortable with this - and attempts were made to 'deselect' the more centrist MPs and replace them with left wing candidates. It is much the same problem Kinnock had - and in the Blair years it was suppressed, but returned post Blair/Brown with a vengeance selecting Corbyn. Can Starmer banish it or suppress it? Corbyn and his cronies significantly 'tweaked' the structure of the whole party machine to consolidate the hold of the left. Has he left a structure that will block Starmer? The fact that Corbyn has been reinstated as a member suggests that at present Starmer is on the back foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Mice! said: Been a long time since they helped the working man. Hello, if Sir Starmer allowed Corbyn back it will be the last nail in Labour's coffin🤔 Edited November 18, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 starmer can deal with corbyn.........but what he cant deal with is...all corbyn's allies and connections...momentum et al ...unions....corbyn has a desease strangle hold on the party... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) Apparantly Max Headroom has refused to reinstate the fragrant Jezza as a Labour MP Edited November 18, 2020 by amateur Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 43 minutes ago, amateur said: Apparantly Max Headroom has refused to reinstate the fragrant Jezza "stand by for action......." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Got to say that I admire Starmer for his stance. Time will tell if he sticks to it. If he doesn't, he will look very, very weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Well it is being reported that Jeremy Corbyn has been allowed to be a party member but not a Labour MP. He has not had the whip returned. So further investigation and plenty of hand wringing to follow. Watching with great interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: but not a Labour MP. So will he have to stand as an independent at the next election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, JohnfromUK said: So will he have to stand as an independent at the next election? No he will be far too old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said: No he will be far too old! Not as old as Biden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, JohnfromUK said: Not as old as Biden Indeed. But as we have often said, experience is one thing, but when you get to Ditchmans age it really is time to put your feet up and relax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Indeed. But as we have often said, experience is one thing, but when you get to Ditchmans age it really is time to put your feet up and relax. watching "YOUR" comments with interest...........................................................................................................(not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 Good to see you are still with us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern01 Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 11 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: He has failed to retract his words and failed to apologise. More shame on a once great party of the ordinary working man. It has not been the party for the working man for over twenty years It is the party for rich Socialists, Communists, mass immigration and the work shy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Good to see you are still with us! absense makes the heart grow fonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 They've just said on the news that Starmer has prevented Corbyn from becoming an MP again so Starmer obviously hasn't rolled over. On the topic of Starmer I was very happy seeing him at the Cenotaph for the remembrance service instead of Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: Labour has 'structural' problems; Fundamental to this is that the 'leader' is really mainly the leader of the 'Parliamentary Labour Party' (PLP) - i.e. the MPs. The main party is governed by the National Executive Committee (NEC) - which is made up of a much broader base including the Parliamentary Party, the Trades Unions, Constituency Labour parties and socialist societies. It makes the main decisions - backed up by votes in the party conference. Choice of candidates (potential MPs and local elected representatives) is (in recent times) the remit of the constituency party and the NEC, not the parliamentary party. The problem for the 'leader' is that he is 'leading' the PLP, and nominal 'party leader', but not leading the Party in that it is governed and policy, rules etc. set by the NEC. This set up leaves fundamental control in the hands of the bodies mainly controlled by the 'activist' element - who are in general much further to the left than the average voter (or trade union member). This was encouraged under the Corbyn years because it was seen as consolidating the hold of the left. Many MPs were uncomfortable with this - and attempts were made to 'deselect' the more centrist MPs and replace them with left wing candidates. It is much the same problem Kinnock had - and in the Blair years it was suppressed, but returned post Blair/Brown with a vengeance selecting Corbyn. Can Starmer banish it or suppress it? Corbyn and his cronies significantly 'tweaked' the structure of the whole party machine to consolidate the hold of the left. Has he left a structure that will block Starmer? The fact that Corbyn has been reinstated as a member suggests that at present Starmer is on the back foot. Correct. Sir Kier Starmer has shown some backbone to remove the Whip from Jezza, although he had little choice. This fracture between PLP and NEC will rumble for years. If BoJo could just bin off his bit on the side and old school chum then Fieldsports would be safe for the foreseeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mice! said: They've just said on the news that Starmer has prevented Corbyn from becoming an MP again so Starmer obviously hasn't rolled over. On the topic of Starmer I was very happy seeing him at the Cenotaph for the remembrance service instead of Corbyn. I think that I might be starting to warm to starmer . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, Mice! said: They've just said on the news that Starmer has prevented Corbyn from becoming an MP again so Starmer obviously hasn't rolled over. On the topic of Starmer I was very happy seeing him at the Cenotaph for the remembrance service instead of Corbyn. Starmer is an accomplished politician; he knows how to behave and is an educated man. he does show (and I think genuinely has) respect for our fallen. I don't like Labour policies, but as a person, he knows how to behave. The same cannot be said for Corbyn, who has stood side by side with those who have deliberately targeted our fallen. I will say no more that I find Corbyn about as 'low' as you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Starmer is an accomplished politician; he knows how to behave and is an educated man. he does show (and I think genuinely has) respect for our fallen. I don't like Labour policies, but as a person, he knows how to behave. The same cannot be said for Corbyn, who has stood side by side with those who have deliberately targeted our fallen. I will say no more that I find Corbyn about as 'low' as you can get. Agree 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted November 18, 2020 Report Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: Starmer is an accomplished politician; he knows how to behave and is an educated man. he does show (and I think genuinely has) respect for our fallen. I don't like Labour policies, but as a person, he knows how to behave. The same cannot be said for Corbyn, who has stood side by side with those who have deliberately targeted our fallen. I will say no more that I find Corbyn about as 'low' as you can get. Exactly, Corbyn usually looks like he's deliberately found a coat from the garage to look like a scruff on a day that calls for respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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