Fog fowling without a dog

[shakin stevens]

40 minutes ago, Manish said:

@6.5x55SENow I know about the late geese I can have a lay in too. TBH most of my trips out have been sussing out the grounds and seeing where is good whats easy to get out to without too many big creaks to cross (I only have little legs). 

Which area do you shoot on the wash? Can remember going on my own when I first went , started down the easy parts down the stone road at sheps.  .

[Manish]

5 minutes ago, shakin stevens said:

Which area do you shoot on the wash? Can remember going on my own when I first went , started down the easy parts down the stone road at sheps.  .

The east side of the Nene mainly 

[captainhastings]

No one has to justify them selves and we all conduct our selves as we see fit. If you don't have a dog for what ever reason why should you have to miss out on some epic and amazing sport and scenery. Of course having a dog gives the whole thing a new level of pleasure but not every one is fortunate enough to have one. It strikes as elitism to me and that is what I don't like.

 

[motty]

On 07/12/2020 at 20:13, London Best said:

What happens when you drop one in a large double decker bus sized deep gutter full of water. 

There wouldn't be a creek like that there at low tide.

On 07/12/2020 at 20:18, London Best said:

They must be prepared to lose a large percentage of birds shot.

Why? There are numerous fowling spots where it would be possible to pick birds without a dog.

[motty]

5 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

Shooting wildfowl with out a dog is a sure way to stop the sport from growing you cannot be sure with your shooting wildfowl if any injured birds will run or swim away No matter how responsible you think you are To answer your question I’ve known clubs to let shooters like you’re self join without excess to a dog A lot of injured duck or as a matter of fact dead duck found by the likes of RSPB RESULTING in lose of land for clubs Your original post stated that you were gonna go fowling in fog without a dog Bad practice reading your post regarding safety and Not being able to pick birds with a competent gun dog 

Obviously 🙄 not but it’s up to the shooter to make sure There fowling dog is trained to a standard to safely retrieve ducks etc 

I think you're talking absolute rubbish. Even with a dog you can't guarantee picking all birds.

I don't see it as irresponsible to go fowling  without a dog. In many circumstances it shouldn't be an issue.

[holloway]

27 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

No one has to justify them selves and we all conduct our selves as we see fit. If you don't have a dog for what ever reason why should you have to miss out on some epic and amazing sport and scenery. Of course having a dog gives the whole thing a new level of pleasure but not every one is fortunate enough to have one. It strikes as elitism to me and that is what I don't like.

 

I am not sure it is elitism but more a concern over ethics ,both of the clubs I belong too insist that you are always accompanied by a competent dog and yes one of the clubs do test the dogs for competence and steadyness to livestock.Find a mate with a dog to go with then get a dog when you can you will enjoy your trips even more.

[motty]

5 hours ago, London Best said:

@Manish,     
Dog or no dog, you will not be fowling for long on The Wash if you go out on those marshes in thick fog. It can be a VERY dangerous place. In fog the sea wall is virtually the only place to be.

PS I shot on The Wash from 1965 until 1992.

Really? I don't care how long you shot on the wash - that is frankly rubbish! Plenty of Fowlers safely get right out on the edge of the wash in thick fog. I was out there on Sunday in extremely thick fog. No problem whatsoever!

[motty]

4 hours ago, Manish said:

Im new to Fowling yes. But Im not new to navigating in **** conditions and operating in a marsh/tidal environment. I shall have a look at the video and see whats what. 

May I also point out the original question was about not having a dog and what would be a good idea. NOT if I should go out in fog. The advise given by the chaps that said stick to or close to the sea wall was sound and good. 

You sir are in essence telling me to stop fowling because I dont have a dedicated dog for the task. Its very helpful and like I said would you like to buy all my kit? Just got a nice browning 525 waterfowl only fired 3 shots since I got it on Saturday! 

Mate. You have had a bit of good advice, but don't listen to most of the **** spouted here. You don't NEED a dog, though it is a good idea. You can most certainly go out in the fog, safely. Keep doing as you're doing and learn it bit by bit.

[Manish]

1 minute ago, motty said:

Mate. You have had a bit of good advice, but don't listen to most of the **** spouted here. You don't NEED a dog, though it is a good idea. You can most certainly go out in the fog, safely. Keep doing as you're doing and learn it bit by bit.

Will do mate. A dog will come but like you said I just need to keep going and learning 

[motty]

2 hours ago, 6.5x55SE said:

Manish unlucky on this morning's flight but we'll done on getting out hopefully gaining a bit more experience.

Yes in my experience you probably left to early as Geese tend to be late/very late leaving their roost on foggy mornings. Apart from reasons already mentioned Staying on the seawall can also be very rewarding due to the Geese will very often drop into or at least have a good look at fields next to the seawall and circle round over the seawall infact to be honest I've shot far more Geese from the seawall in foggy conditions that being on the marsh. As for no dog at the moment keep going do as you are doing now being sensible gaining experience I'm sure you're efforts will end in reward 

Yep. Seawall is a good spot in thick fog. 

[Manish]

6 minutes ago, motty said:

Yep. Seawall is a good spot in thick fog. 

Seawall or mud given the choice and its safe to do so?

[motty]

30 minutes ago, Manish said:

Seawall or mud given the choice and its safe to do so?

I would always go where I expect to get the best chance of a shot. I wouldn't normally sit at the sea wall, but in thick fog I have had some success.

[Manish]

1 minute ago, motty said:

I would always go where I expect to get the best chance of a shot. I wouldn't normally sit at the sea wall, but in thick fog I have had some success.

Well the nice thing is we dont often get thick fog. I'll give the wall another go but this time get there later than I normally do seeing as the geese wont be up until later

[Gerry78]

1 hour ago, motty said:

I think you're talking absolute rubbish. Even with a dog you can't guarantee picking all birds.

I don't see it as irresponsible to go fowling  without a dog. In many circumstances it shouldn't be an issue.

I don’t think for one moment I’m talking rubbish Motty Yes you can’t pick every bird even with a dog but the amount of birds I’ve seen lost with guns having no dogs is astounding If that’s the case your videos with Mr Green do u think you could have retrieved all them ducks without your shooting party having dogs I Don’t think So That Guy Mannish is new too Wildfowling but to say to him if he’s gonna stay at Wildfowling you can get bye without a dog is Unbelievable 

[Gerry78]

1 hour ago, motty said:

Mate. You have had a bit of good advice, but don't listen to most of the **** spouted here. You don't NEED a dog, though it is a good idea. You can most certainly go out in the fog, safely. Keep doing as you're doing and learn it bit by bit.

 

Maybe BASC TALKING RUBBISH TOO Motty 

[motty]

3 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

I don’t think for one moment I’m talking rubbish Motty Yes you can’t pick every bird even with a dog but the amount of birds I’ve seen lost with guns having no dogs is astounding If that’s the case your videos with Mr Green do u think you could have retrieved all them ducks without your shooting party having dogs I Don’t think So That Guy Mannish is new too Wildfowling but to say to him if he’s gonna stay at Wildfowling you can get bye without a dog is Unbelievable 

The difference is, we were shooting on flooded washes. I wouldn't necessarily expect anyone to be out there without a dog. Saying that, there is a chap that nips round on a kayak on the washes and collects birds.

There is no rule in the FWA that members are required to have a dog, nor should there be. As said, there are many circumstances where a dog isn't necessarily needed.

3 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

 

Maybe BASC TALKING RUBBISH TOO Motty 

What is your point?

[Big Mat]

11 hours ago, marsh man said:

Without being to hard on the op, he asked on his first post about going fowling in the fog , we didn't ask if he was in a club and I believe most , if not all of the Wash is operated by the various clubs around that coastline , when you first join a club you fill a form in stating your experience when it come to fowling , if you are fairly new to the sport you will have to go out with someone for a set number of times , so if the op went by himself he would have passed the requirements set out by his club . as for a dog , he will be told by his club the advantage in using a dog while fowling , but we have to accept not everyone is in a position to own a gundog , maybe through lack of time , work commitments , housing and family life , not only that , in most clubs they lose a good percentage of new members within the first three years as believe it or not , it don't appeal to everyone who try it , so offer good advice by all means but give the man a chance to see if he is going to be in it for the long haul , as I know a hell of a lot who packed it in after hardly getting there feet wet  

He's done plenty of guided flights, and quite frankly I'm disgusted by the attitude some members are having towards him not having a dog. 

As you say, we loose a lot of new members, we're a dying breed and should be more welcoming.

Whilst I don't like shooting without a dog, it can be done.

In fact, I shot my first pink, in the fog on the same foreshore as Manish was on, and retrieved it myself as my dog was at home, and motty's dog was busy fetching his pinks! 

[Smokersmith]

Virtually all of the creeks on the marsh Manish refers to go from the sea wall to the sea .. pick one to walk out on, and one to walk back and you'll be fine, especially if you avoid the tide.

It's only when you try to cut across the marsh things can go a bit Pete Tong ... I can remember getting seriously P'd off one dawn when I headed out with a cunning plan, and after 45 minutes ended up back at the wall again 🤪

[Gerry78]

This is my last post on matter if people are telling new Fowler’s that if they stay at the sport that a dog unnecessarily then that’s up to yourselves I for one disagree For me a trained dog out on the marsh represents the essence of Wildfowling that’s just my opinion Not getting at anyone But to say im talking rubbish I think is unreasonable Just my thoughts 

[marsh man]

3 hours ago, Big Mat said:

He's done plenty of guided flights, and quite frankly I'm disgusted by the attitude some members are having towards him not having a dog. 

As you say, we loose a lot of new members, we're a dying breed and should be more welcoming.

Whilst I don't like shooting without a dog, it can be done.

In fact, I shot my first pink, in the fog on the same foreshore as Manish was on, and retrieved it myself as my dog was at home, and motty's dog was busy fetching his pinks! 

I agree Mat , It started to get a bit nasty towards the op which I don't like to see , a lot of people when they first think about taking up wildfowling haven't got a dog suitable for wildfowling , this alone shouldn't put them off by giving it try and I do know several people who have been fowling for a good number of years for reasons of there own have never had a dog for wildfowling , in fact I knew one chap who have now passed on had a nasty accident when he was young when he crawling on the ground while dragging his hammer gun behind , the gun somehow went off with leaving him with only one leg for the rest of his life , he was in the club for a good many years and used to get about on a fixed wheel trade bike with his gun and crutches strapped to the crossbar , throughout the time I knew him he never had a dog and on a Saturday afternoon his mate would pick him up to go on a decent block of marshes we had , I can still see him now in my mind going across two or three marshes with his gun in a sleeve over his shoulder while crossing the marsh on a pair of crutches to his favourite gate where he would stay and have a smoke , now that is dedication for you .

[guy baxendale]

I fowled very intensely for three years as a student without a dog and very rarely lost a bird. Including several hundred snipe. It takes a certain discipline.....picking your shots, not taking a second bird, marking stuff and walking to it immediately at the expense of other birds. Would i like to do it again.....no but it can be done with no great issues.

Edited December 9, 2020 by guy baxendale

[Manish]

27 minutes ago, guy baxendale said:

piacking your shots and not taking a second bird and marking stuff and walking to it immediately at the expense of other birds. Would i like to do it again.....no but it can be done with no great issues.

That sir is precisely what I have been doing and TBH it seems to work (at least when I hit the birds)

3 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

Virtually all of the creeks on the marsh Manish refers to go from the sea wall to the sea .. pick one to walk out on, and one to walk back and you'll be fine, especially if you avoid the tide.

It's only when you try to cut across the marsh things can go a bit Pete Tong ... I can remember getting seriously P'd off one dawn when I headed out with a cunning plan, and after 45 minutes ended up back at the wall again 🤪

Once again thats how I have been navigating and taking back bearings with my compass too. 

Im very interested in the cunning plan you had 🤣

[Pushandpull]

Manish, it is I think 55 years since I first shot the marsh you refer to - i didn't have a dog then either.

Just be sensible and crack on.

[flippermaj]

Manish, Motty offers sound advice.  Be sensible and get out there.   

I have never shot in England but started wild fowling up here without a dog for the first season.  Got a dog and it is much more fun!  Having said that, probably 70% of what the dog retrieves I could quite easily pick myself!

[marsh man]

9 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

Virtually all of the creeks on the marsh Manish refers to go from the sea wall to the sea .. pick one to walk out on, and one to walk back and you'll be fine, especially if you avoid the tide.

It's only when you try to cut across the marsh things can go a bit Pete Tong ... I can remember getting seriously P'd off one dawn when I headed out with a cunning plan, and after 45 minutes ended up back at the wall again 🤪

You cannot beat local knowledge when it comes to coastal fowling , I have only been down as far as the East Lighthouse twice when I walked it from the bus stop near Sutton Bridge , the first time I went I ran out of time and had to make my way back as I had arranged to meet my wife at the bus station in K / Lynn , the second time I went I had the day to myself and went into the Lighthouse when the owner then ( Mr Joel ? ) had a open day to raise some funds for some project in the area , when I came out I carried on walking on The Peter Scott route towards Lynn , looking at the salt marshes you would really need local knowledge , or for the first few times out to go with someone from around those parts , if I live local and was about to take up the sport I would be spending a lot of my free time in daylight hours finding my way around and making notes about how high a normal tide come up the creeks and so on , like our estuary you can tell how high a Spring tide reach by the rubbish it leave behind and when the tide , wind , moon all come together at the same I have seen the water come over the top of the estuary wall , so I would advise the op to spend as much time as he can just checking the area out where he intends to do his shooting .