12 bore VS 20 bore

[Lloyd90]

Just an interesting article I thought worth a share: 

 

Comparing 20 bore and 12 bore, it states in order to get similar results / pattern, you would need to shoot a 20 bore 21g 5 through a full choke, to get the same results as a 30g 5 through an improved cylinder choke on the 12 bore. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/lightweight-20-bore-117537/amp

 

 

There does seem to be a big rise in the popularity of the smaller bores, but perhaps we would all be better off with lighter weight 12 bore guns if we want lighter guns that are nicer to carry 🤷‍♂️

[Scully]

I thought that at the same distance, ( 30 yds or whatever it’s supposed to be ) the number of pellets in a 30” circle from any bore was supposed to be the same. 
I could never understand why that would be so, but that’s what I was led to believe. 
I agree with your second paragraph incidentally, although how the lighter gun with increased loads for HP steel will pan out, I have no idea. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Scully

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

I thought that at the same distance, ( 30 yds or whatever it’s supposed to be ) the number of pellets in a 30” circle from any bore was supposed to be the same. 
I could never understand why that would be so, but that’s what I was led to believe. 
I agree with your second paragraph incidentally, although how the lighter gun with increased loads for HP steel will pan out, I have no idea. 

Hello, me to Scully, must be from Major Ruffers book I kept reading on different gauges giving same pattern with 30 yard at 6 shot , more than 30 the 20b gave different results I presume to the velocity of cartridge, my O/U is light but good with 28g 7.5s

[welshwarrior]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I thought that at the same distance, ( 30 yds or whatever it’s supposed to be ) the number of pellets in a 30” circle from any bore was supposed to be the same. 
I could never understand why that would be so, but that’s what I was led to believe. 
 

That’s correct as pattern is a measure of the percentage of pellets in a 30” circle at 30 yards. 
So fire the same number of pellets through the same choke you get the same result, the key is same number of pellets, often not the case between bores in the old days now it’s more likely but if the load is at the extreme end of the weight for that bore the velocity drops and results differ 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by welshwarrior

[8 shot]

What a complete waste of ink. My experience is different brands of cartridges of similar shot size and weight pattern differently regardless, even through the same choke in both 12 and 20. Throw in a plastic wad and it changes again

[welshwarrior]

19 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

What a complete waste of ink. My experience is different brands of cartridges of similar shot size and weight pattern differently regardless, even through the same choke in both 12 and 20. Throw in a plastic wad and it changes again

thats because choke is an old measure from when guns where provided with the kit to make your own cartridges to a set recipe of black powder in the main.  Now we have thousands of options the makers can’t of neither guns or cartridges can get their product to throw true patterns with everyone else’s product. 
 

personally don’t over think it find a gun and cartridge combo you enjoy and shoot it. 

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

That’s correct as pattern is a measure of the percentage of pellets in a 30” circle at 30 yards. 
So fire the same number of pellets through the same choke you get the same result, the key is same number of pellets, often not the case between bores in the old days now it’s more likely but if the load is at the extreme end of the weight for that bore the velocity drops and results differ 

 

At 30 yards. 
So other than determining choke at a given distance it’s a totally pointless exercise? 🤷‍♂️

1 minute ago, welshwarrior said:

 

personally don’t over think it find a gun and cartridge combo you enjoy and shoot it. 

Exactly this. 👍

[Walker570]

Put it in the pattern and it will not notice the difference.

[wymberley]

Hope he didn't get paid for that. All that was really needed to be said was the final paragraph; the rest being defined as 'repeats'.

"Put it in the pattern" is similar to 'pattern kills' which infers that there is sufficient energy just as 'putting it there' infers a sufficient pellet count. Question is, assuming a pigeon, how many pellets are needed on average with every shot in, say, the central 20" circle in order to be reasonably certain that a bird will be killed cleanly if struck within that pattern area?

Edited May 3, 2021 by wymberley

[JohnfromUK]

23 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

perhaps we would all be better off with lighter weight 12 bore guns if we want lighter guns that are nicer to carry

That has always been my view.  Nothing to do with patterns particularly.  Just prefer the greater choices (guns and ammunition), flexibility of a 12.  I use a light 12 bore and use 21g loads for clays and 26 or 28g loads for live quarry.

Edited May 3, 2021 by JohnfromUK

[Modafinale]

So the top and bottom seams that if you’re not shooting too well you need a 12 bore ?

better shot uses a 20 bore ? 

I use a 28 bore 😃

but obviously I’m not as good as someone who uses a 410 😂
 

[oldypigeonpopper]

44 minutes ago, Modafinale said:

So the top and bottom seams that if you’re not shooting too well you need a 12 bore ?

better shot uses a 20 bore ? 

I use a 28 bore 😃

but obviously I’m not as good as someone who uses a 410 😂
 

🤔👏😁

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, the best thing you can do is make a steel sheet pattern plate 3 ft X 3ft, mark a 30 inch circle and use some quick drying white paint. Start at 20 yard, 30, 40, then find the best pattern and cartridge brand with your 12,20,28,410 shotguns, this is what we used when I was in Oxford Clay pigeon club, 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Modafinale said:

So the top and bottom seams that if you’re not shooting too well you need a 12 bore ?

better shot uses a 20 bore ? 

I use a 28 bore 😃

but obviously I’m not as good as someone who uses a 410 😂
 

But I bet that you don’t hesitate to fire a twelve bore load through your 28 bore?