Card only sales.

[islandgun]

On 01/07/2021 at 19:42, islandgun said:

I wonder what will happen if hackers ever manage to cause our computers to fail. I guess anarchy, as our society is dependant on computers to function. no computers=  no food or money ............ no phones..🤪

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57707530

[zipdog]

On 02/07/2021 at 09:44, discobob said:

but you still need somewhere to "land" your cash into when you want to cash in

But you ‘cash bitcoin in’ for an equal service. Cash works exactly the same way. It just rotates though society in exchanges for goods. You cut my lawn and I will pay you £10 cash, the person receiving it then pays the window cleaner, who then buys a pint in the local etc.

The point of cash or bitcoin isn’t to avoid taxation, we are all liable for taxation however we do business.

But with cash or Bitcoin the transaction of that money is decentralised, and to a degree, (numbers on bank notes, bitcoins ledger), at large anonymous.

I predict over the next 30 years cash will get harder to exchange for goods and Bitcoin will get easier!

 

 

[zipdog]

On 01/07/2021 at 22:15, henry d said:

Are you the one sending me all those emails saying that I can cash in the 0.6524 bitcoins I have been given, as long as I give you the bank details?

Only the ones you get on Saturdays, I don’t get time in the week 🤣. 

They are rather like all the other spam emails and bogus websites. Scams happen in every environment. The internet has facilitated more scams than anything in history. But we also recognise its advantages, and they far outweigh a few idiots losing some money!

[sportsbob]

5 hours ago, zipdog said:

But you ‘cash bitcoin in’ for an equal service. Cash works exactly the same way. It just rotates though society in exchanges for goods. You cut my lawn and I will pay you £10 cash, the person receiving it then pays the window cleaner, who then buys a pint in the local etc.

The point of cash or bitcoin isn’t to avoid taxation, we are all liable for taxation however we do business.

But with cash or Bitcoin the transaction of that money is decentralised, and to a degree, (numbers on bank notes, bitcoins ledger), at large anonymous.

I predict over the next 30 years cash will get harder to exchange for goods and Bitcoin will get easier!

 

 

 

I don`t understand why you advocate "bitcoin" because for example if I was paid £20k in bitcoin for something mid April then I would have a little over £10k now due to its fall whereas if some one paid in cash I would still have £20k.

[zipdog]

3 hours ago, sportsbob said:

 

I don`t understand why you advocate "bitcoin" because for example if I was paid £20k in bitcoin for something mid April then I would have a little over £10k now due to its fall whereas if some one paid in cash I would still have £20k.

While Bitcoin is volatile in the short term, true. Its long term trend due to use cases and halving design is to increase in value.

If you had paid me £20k in cash 3 years ago, due to inflation, it would have less purchasing power today. The purchasing power of Bitcoin has increased.

The government, can and does, print as much cash as they like. And with every note they print those in the circulating supply decrease in value. There can only ever be 21 million Bitcoins. 

[zipdog]

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by zipdog

[henry d]

Surely there is more to it than that?

I have had a look at a site that measures worth and put in the price of a pint of Newcastle brown in a pub as I remember it from 1976; 24 1/2p and transfering it to 2020 it varies between £1.63 and £3.78 with the relative value of £1.80. I would presume that the top price range is about right going on the past few nights out and the others a real bargain. I also earn a damn sight more now than then

[zipdog]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

Surely there is more to it than that?

I have had a look at a site that measures worth and put in the price of a pint of Newcastle brown in a pub as I remember it from 1976; 24 1/2p and transfering it to 2020 it varies between £1.63 and £3.78 with the relative value of £1.80. I would presume that the top price range is about right going on the past few nights out and the others a real bargain. I also earn a damn sight more now than then

To keep it simple I will use new money.

The average price of a pint in 2000 was £1.97

The average price of a pint in 2020 was £3.73

That's a 90% increase in price.

So lets say I wish to use cash, I work hard, declare and pay my tax, and have some rainy day savings which I keep slowly adding to under my floorboards. Due to government spending and an ever increasing circulating supply I need to add anywhere from 4-10% a year just to stay in the same position. 

So what’s the point in saving? You're money is only going to be worth less in the future and the price of what you want to buy will have increased. This is what is wrong with our society and why this consumer culture has boomed.  

 

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, zipdog said:

To keep it simple I will use new money.

The average price of a pint in 2000 was £1.97

The average price of a pint in 2020 was £3.73

That's a 90% increase in price.

So lets say I wish to use cash, I work hard, declare and pay my tax, and have some rainy day savings which I keep slowly adding to under my floorboards. Due to government spending and an ever increasing circulating supply I need to add anywhere from 4-10% a year just to stay in the same position. 

So what’s the point in saving? You're money is only going to be worth less in the future and the price of what you want to buy will have increased. This is what is wrong with our society and why this consumer culture has boomed.  

 

Your examples are nonsense, as your basing it off the worse case or worst idea of how to store your money. 
 

No one with any financial sense keeps their savings under the floor boards. 
 

I made over 20% interest on my savings in the last 2 years. I’d have lost 6%+ with the money sat under the floor boards. 
 

Good luck paying your Tesco shopping bill with Bitcoins. 
 

How much do you personally have invested in Bitcoin or any other investment? 
 

 

[Newbie to this]

13 hours ago, zipdog said:

a few idiots losing some money!

Oh the irony.

[JohnfromUK]

If I had a pound for every junk e mail I receive in connection with Bitcoins - I really would be making money fast!

[zipdog]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Your examples are nonsense, as your basing it off the worse case or worst idea of how to store your money. 
 

No one with any financial sense keeps their savings under the floor boards. 
 

I made over 20% interest on my savings in the last 2 years. I’d have lost 6%+ with the money sat under the floor boards. 
 

Good luck paying your Tesco shopping bill with Bitcoins. 
 

How much do you personally have invested in Bitcoin or any other investment? 
 

 

Lloyd, the topic is around using cash as a form of currency. 

Cash has a place in this world because it is not reliant on a third party to process the transaction, like a bank. Some people see value in this. 

The problem with using cash is, unless you spend it quickly, its purchasing power diminishes over time due to government printing. Bitcoin provides an alternative payment method for people who want to transact money without reliance on a third party, and while still in its infancy, its purchasing power, due to many factors, seems to increase over time. 

While other investments may be better than cash or Bitcoin in terms of yield generation. They also have disadvantages, such as your money may be illiquid or you have to trust a third party to look after it for you....2008!!!

'How much do I personally have invested'...... this is a rather rude question but I keep some money in the bank as its easy to use in daily life, I have some money invested in isa’s as they offers reasonable returns, I have some money in cash in case for whatever reason the electrical world fails and yes some in Bitcoin, in case the fiat world fails. They all have their own advantages. 

‘Good luck paying your Tesco shopping bill with Bitcoin’...... I can do exactly this now if I wanted to. There are payment companies that facilitate this. One example that maybe more relatable is Tally. Tally allow me to keep my money in physical gold. I have a Tally card that’s accepted everywhere, then wherever I am in the world, I pay for what I want and my money is automatically converted from gold into whatever the local currency is!

Edited July 4, 2021 by zipdog

[Newbie to this]

I take it by "third party" you specifically mean a bank.

Because what you have described with your so called bitcoin payments all seem to rely on third parties and local currency.

[zipdog]

20 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I take it by "third party" you specifically mean a bank.

Because what you have described with your so called bitcoin payments all seem to rely on third parties and local currency.

 

[zipdog]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

No one with any financial sense keeps their savings under the floor boards. 

You talk about financial sense, and this is a rhetorical question I am not expecting you to answer.

What percentage of your money can you instantly access right now without replying on a third party. Probably only the small amount of loose change you have kicking about.

To me this doesn’t sound very financially safe to me!

People are quick to forget recessions. People queuing up outside banks to try to get their money out before they go bust!

[Lloyd90]

4 hours ago, zipdog said:

You talk about financial sense, and this is a rhetorical question I am not expecting you to answer.

What percentage of your money can you instantly access right now without replying on a third party. Probably only the small amount of loose change you have kicking about.

To me this doesn’t sound very financially safe to me!

People are quick to forget recessions. People queuing up outside banks to try to get their money out before they go bust!

Your telling me if the world experienced a major financial crash and global recession similar to the 2008 or 1988/89 crashes, that everyone would be impacted, but BITCOIN would not be impacted? 
 

And everyone with Bitcoin would be walking around saying what a relief they put their money in Bitcoin? 
 

You find it rude that I asked how much money you have in Bitcoin? Yet your on here bigging it up? 
 

The internet lately is fully of wanna be investors. Who’ve stuff a few hundred quid into some crypto and now think they’re the next Warren Buffet! 

[zipdog]

34 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Your telling me if the world experienced a major financial crash and global recession similar to the 2008 or 1988/89 crashes, that everyone would be impacted, but BITCOIN would not be impacted? 

I am saying it would be advantageous to have some cash and Bitcoin in that economic environment certainly. People are under the illusion that you put your money in a bank for safe keeping. You don’t. You lend your money to a bank for them to lend out. In return they pay you interest. 

If the banks run out of money you wont be able to withdraw your funds. There is zero chance of this happening with either cash or Bitcoin. 

41 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

And everyone with Bitcoin would be walking around saying what a relief they put their money in Bitcoin? 

As above I think Bitcoin will perform well under those market conditions.

 

45 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

You find it rude that I asked how much money you have in Bitcoin? Yet your on here bigging it up? 

Very rude yes. How much money have you got in your bank account? That is a rude question!

I see the value in Bitcoin as a way of exchanging value, without a third party, once cash disappears, and cash will disappear unfortunetly. It is the idea and principle that is important, not someones net worth. 

54 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

The internet lately is fully of wanna be investors. Who’ve stuff a few hundred quid into some crypto and now think they’re the next Warren Buffet! 

Your statement is correct. Unfortunately most will lose their money.

Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme either. Its a tool to be used by people who see the value in not being reliant on third parties to either store or act as intermediaries when they wish to transact their wealth. Along with people who see the value in not being full exposed to unlimited government backed fiat currencies.

[udderlyoffroad]

9 hours ago, zipdog said:

Very rude yes. How much money have you got in your bank account?

Could you at least give us some hint as to the percentage of your portfolio that you've put into bitcoin?  And why Bitcoin over any other type of crypto?

After all, if Paper money is unlimited because the central banks simply print more, bitcoin has the opposite problem, there's a strictly finite supply.  Not so with other cryptos, and the, er, trajectory of some of them appears to be more stable.

Surely Bitcoin is like any other 'currency' - it's only worth what people perceive it to be worth.  And retailers are still reluctant to accept bitcoin directly, you're dependent on a third party.  Tesla made a great fanfare of accepting Bitcoin as payment for their overpriced vehicles, then quietly dropped it as a payment option.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Tesla made a great fanfare of accepting Bitcoin as payment for their overpriced vehicles, then quietly dropped it as a payment option.

The cynical amongst might see that as Elon Musk 'manipulating' the market.

1. Buy Bitcoins
2. State Tesla is buying Bitcoins and will take payment in bit coins
3. Market rises sharply
4. Tesla sells Bitcoins at higher prices
5. Tesla announces they see Bitcoin and too energy intensive and won't (for now) either invest or take payment in them.

Not sure I have all the details quite right - but the idea is there.

[zipdog]

13 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Could you at least give us some hint as to the percentage of your portfolio that you've put into bitcoin?  And why Bitcoin over any other type of crypto?

After all, if Paper money is unlimited because the central banks simply print more, bitcoin has the opposite problem, there's a strictly finite supply.  Not so with other cryptos, and the, er, trajectory of some of them appears to be more stable.

Surely Bitcoin is like any other 'currency' - it's only worth what people perceive it to be worth.  And retailers are still reluctant to accept bitcoin directly, you're dependent on a third party.  Tesla made a great fanfare of accepting Bitcoin as payment for their overpriced vehicles, then quietly dropped it as a payment option.

Finite supply but one Bitcoin can be divided into many multiples called Satoshi’s. The Satoshi is currently the smallest unit of currency in Bitcoin worth 0.00000001 of a Bitcoin. I don’t think anyone needs to worry yet about upgrading that protocol. 

If you think other cryptocurrencies are more stable and better than Bitcoin I’m not going to argue. Who knows what the future holds. But having been very actively involved and worked in this space, with a few limited exceptions, the only one I still see long term value in is Bitcoin. 

To answer your last question! Yes currency is a means of exchange for goods or service, that is all it is. There are lots of interesting books on this. Once you scratch the surface it is truly fascinating. 

13 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The cynical amongst might see that as Elon Musk 'manipulating' the market.

1. Buy Bitcoins
2. State Tesla is buying Bitcoins and will take payment in bit coins
3. Market rises sharply
4. Tesla sells Bitcoins at higher prices
5. Tesla announces they see Bitcoin and too energy intensive and won't (for now) either invest or take payment in them.

Not sure I have all the details quite right - but the idea is there.

Elon has manipulated the market to a degree but he has lost his influence as quickly as it was gained. Do you think the average man in Venezuela or El Salvador has any idea who Elon is? 

Easy come easy go as they say!

Edited July 5, 2021 by zipdog

[henry d]

On 04/07/2021 at 14:04, zipdog said:

To keep it simple I will use new money.

The average price of a pint in 2000 was £1.97

The average price of a pint in 2020 was £3.73

That's a 90% increase in price.

So lets say I wish to use cash, I work hard, declare and pay my tax, and have some rainy day savings which I keep slowly adding to under my floorboards. Due to government spending and an ever increasing circulating supply I need to add anywhere from 4-10% a year just to stay in the same position. 

So what’s the point in saving? You're money is only going to be worth less in the future and the price of what you want to buy will have increased. This is what is wrong with our society and why this consumer culture has boomed.  

 

It's all gonads;

In 2000 I was earning a wage, had a mortgage, bills etc

In 2020 I have been mortgage free for nearly a decade, I still pay bills but the money comes rolling in as I am/we are retired.

My first house cost @£18K, sold it three years later for @£38K and bought a (bigger) house for the same amount, sold that three years later moved on and...blah blah blah

All totally artificial and worth ferkoil when push comes to shove apart from keeping us safe and warm, and I can't feed myself with a pound coin or a bitcoin, but I can with my body and my life experiences. I can feed myself with my guns, but someone has to supply me with the raw material to kill things, I can catch fish from my kayak but I need someone to provide the fishing gear and spares to repair it all, my garden provides a few nice fresh veggies but I need a couple of acres to adequately feed me and my wife.

[sportsbob]

If someone paid me £30K Sunday in bitcoin I would already be £700 down so I think it fair to say as cash is used to buy things and the topic is about card only sales then the Bitcoin argument is irrelevant as we are not talking about investments.

[Gordon R]

Reading the news today, I wonder if he / she is still sure of Bitcoin? 🙂

[Vince Green]

33 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Reading the news today, I wonder if he / she is still sure of Bitcoin? 🙂

Crypto stocks plummet and investors lose fortunes as Bitcoin, Ethereum and Luna prices plunge | Daily Mail Online

[Gordon R]

Quote

 Who knows what the future holds. But having been very actively involved and worked in this space, with a few limited exceptions, the only one I still see long term value in is Bitcoin. 

Who indeed?

Certainly not zipdog.