Mungler Posted August 30, 2021 Report Share Posted August 30, 2021 3 hours ago, WalkedUp said: Spectator had a good piece on this: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-shameful-evacuation-of-pen-farthing-s-pets-from-afghanistan/amp He has emigrated with his pets and left many people to their death or misery. What disgusts me most is not that man however, it is that people do not care about the plight of Afghans but as soon as they see a rabid dog or mangy cat they open their cheque books. It is done now anyway, all is over unless he opens up some donkey sanctuary to continue siphoning off charitable donations from nutty old bats that could have been spent feeding hungry children but is instead used to carry in lining his own nest. Thanks for the link to the Spectator piece. I did economics at A level and it has shaped my thinking / the rest of my life. The first lesson was (1) there’s no such thing as a free meal or a free anything, and that lead into opportunity cost. I really do think that economics should be a mandatory subject up there with maths and English, I digress. Whilst digressing…. I have watched a number of Facey friends and their rabid support of this animal (over people) rescue flight and it has struck me that all the people I know who take this particular stance are childless (that’s men and women) and of that the majority are known to me to have been deeply affected by childhood trauma eg seriously broken homes, childhood in care etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted August 30, 2021 Report Share Posted August 30, 2021 My personal opinion FWIW? The only animals bought out should have been service dogs because we owe them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 Discussed on the J Vine show today. Apparently all the animals were in cargo hold, which isn’t suitable for people, and all available spaces for people were specifically allocated for people, although he couldn’t get out as many people ( including staff ) as he wanted due to the Taliban preventing at gunpoint, indigenous people from getting onto the airfield. He stressed at no point were animals given preference over humans, which according to him, cannot travel in cargo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted August 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 The dispute has never been the physical space on the plane but the attention, distraction and ridiculous public interest in him and his rabid pets during a serious crisis. Imagine that there is a school on fire and during the evacuation some twerp keeps grabbing a fireman to ask “How is the class goldfish?.... Can’t someone just pop in and get the gold fish?.... I’ve had a whip round down the pub and we’ve paid this random man to go and get the goldfish, make arrangements for him.... Do not stop him going in.... If you do not let me check on the goldfish I will destroy your career and life you f_ b_.” Perhaps if he had put a little attention towards securing the safe passage of his loyal staff instead of the pantomime about his pets those people may have got out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 they've killed Geronimo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: The dispute has never been the physical space on the plane but the attention, distraction and ridiculous public interest in him and his rabid pets during a serious crisis. Imagine that there is a school on fire and during the evacuation some twerp keeps grabbing a fireman to ask “How is the class goldfish?.... Can’t someone just pop in and get the gold fish?.... I’ve had a whip round down the pub and we’ve paid this random man to go and get the goldfish, make arrangements for him.... Do not stop him going in.... If you do not let me check on the goldfish I will destroy your career and life you f_ b_.” Perhaps if he had put a little attention towards securing the safe passage of his loyal staff instead of the pantomime about his pets those people may have got out. According to your OP, it was his ‘attempts to prioritise’ the evacuation of animals over humans which angered you, which, according to that which I heard on the Vine show, was never the case. I doubt he was the only one swearing down a phone line at those in a position to help. 🤷♂️ Again, according to what was said on the programme, many of those personnel he tried to get out were prevented at gunpoint, from getting out. You can listen to the interview if you choose to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted August 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, Scully said: 20 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: According to your OP, it was his ‘attempts to prioritise’ the evacuation of animals over humans which angered you, which, according to that which I heard on the Vine show, was never the case. As stated it is the opportunity loss which is what is galling, demanding and diverting our attention when there were much bigger issues at hand than his pets. The class goldfish in the fire, yes someone could bring the goldfish out whilst carrying a person but it is diverting time and resources away from where they need to be. Nonetheless I will catch up with the interview on BBC Sounds, I am always happy to admit if I am wrong or change my mind. No new aspect has arisen regarding the animals going in the hold, that has been known since day 1 when there were young guys desperately falling from the outside of the airborne planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, WalkedUp said: As stated it is the opportunity loss which is what is galling, demanding and diverting our attention when there were much bigger issues at hand than his pets. The class goldfish in the fire, yes someone could bring the goldfish out whilst carrying a person but it is diverting time and resources away from where they need to be. Nonetheless I will catch up with the interview on BBC Sounds, I am always happy to admit if I am wrong or change my mind. No new aspect has arisen regarding the animals going in the hold, that has been known since day 1 when there were young guys desperately falling from the outside of the airborne planes. I really don’t see where the ‘lost opportunities’ have been. Everyone who could have got out in the allotted time has done so. It wasn’t just time or politicians preventing people from leaving, but the Taliban also. At no time did any animal take precedence over that of a human. The animals could have fitted in the hold of any aeroplane ( where they wouldn’t have taken up space which could have been allocated to people ) but they weren’t allocated the opportunity, which is understandable given the human crisis, which is why an aircraft was chartered to evacuate both people and animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 I was listening at the time when Farthing was on the Jeremy Vine show today. I must admit, before today I've not really bothered myself to dig into the facts surrounding this fiasco, so have been planted well and truly on the fence. I've read the blurb on here as well as seen a few facebook posts etc shared. I know by now to take things with a pinch of salt. "Here we go" I thought, when the Farthing interview started, but as things went on I kind of warmed to him a little bit. I get where he's coming from, even though it is very difficult to pardon the voicemail message he left. But.... I can't get over this fact: He went charging in there all Gung Ho and, along with a lot of noise from his supporters, sapped a disproportionate amount of time and energy from the authorities who were already beyond capacity dealing with the logistics of the whole affair. Even if the animals were to be taken in the cargo hold and the cabin of the plane stuffed with humans, the amount of time & energy expended per human evacuated would still have been way more than that of the existing efforts being put into place. Which makes me think: How many humans did he prevent from being evacuated by taking up the time of the authorities when they could have been dealing with less headline-worthy procedures at a faster rate? The answer to that is something probably nobody will ever know or care to guess at, but I can't help but think his actions have had an overall negative effect on the humanitarian side of things. Also: Quote The Nowzad charity said on social media that it was a "devastating blow" that their "wonderful team" had been left behind. Or thrown to the lions? Were his staff Afghan? If so, leaving them behind is inexcusable seems as everyone knows what sort of retribution the Taliban hand out to anyone cooperating with "The West". In summary, good intentions but ill-conceived plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Jim Neal said: I was listening at the time when Farthing was on the Jeremy Vine show today. I must admit, before today I've not really bothered myself to dig into the facts surrounding this fiasco, so have been planted well and truly on the fence. I've read the blurb on here as well as seen a few facebook posts etc shared. I know by now to take things with a pinch of salt. "Here we go" I thought, when the Farthing interview started, but as things went on I kind of warmed to him a little bit. I get where he's coming from, even though it is very difficult to pardon the voicemail message he left. But.... I can't get over this fact: He went charging in there all Gung Ho and, along with a lot of noise from his supporters, sapped a disproportionate amount of time and energy from the authorities who were already beyond capacity dealing with the logistics of the whole affair. Even if the animals were to be taken in the cargo hold and the cabin of the plane stuffed with humans, the amount of time & energy expended per human evacuated would still have been way more than that of the existing efforts being put into place. Which makes me think: How many humans did he prevent from being evacuated by taking up the time of the authorities when they could have been dealing with less headline-worthy procedures at a faster rate? The answer to that is something probably nobody will ever know or care to guess at, but I can't help but think his actions have had an overall negative effect on the humanitarian side of things. Also: Or thrown to the lions? Were his staff Afghan? If so, leaving them behind is inexcusable seems as everyone knows what sort of retribution the Taliban hand out to anyone cooperating with "The West". In summary, good intentions but ill-conceived plan. I’m pretty sure that he wouldn't be the only one swearing or threatening in attempts to get out, I’m sure it’s a life or death situation in many cases such as this, and I’m pretty sure there will be people who were more deserved of evacuation than some of those who were, it goes with the territory. It’s basically a war zone. Im not defending him at all, I genuinely couldn’t care less about his animals, I just want the facts, because as shooters we are often on the end of rabid accusations and misinformation, where it is often the case where truth and facts are ignored in an attempt to colour us, and as such I’d like to think we could be better than that. He stated on national radio yesterday, that a lot of his staff / personnel, whatever you want to call them, were prevented from entering the airfield, or were driven out of the airfield once there, at gunpoint, by Taliban, because they were locals. He declared he begged and pleaded with those gunmen to allow those people through, but they refused. So is he lying? 🤷♂️ Truth will out because this isn’t over by a long way yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 I don't buy this whole thing about animals in the cargo hold and its unsuitable for humans in there. The cargo hold has to be pressurised and warm enough for the animals to survive. If you were fleeing the taliban would you not be happy to take any little nook and cranny possible(within the aircrafts weight limits) to get the hell out of there? Look at the extremes people did go to like clinging onto a military jet only to fall to their deaths and think to yourself, would I take an uncomfortable but safe journey in a cargo hold? You bet your backside you would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Rob85 said: I don't buy this whole thing about animals in the cargo hold and its unsuitable for humans in there. The cargo hold has to be pressurised and warm enough for the animals to survive. If you were fleeing the taliban would you not be happy to take any little nook and cranny possible(within the aircrafts weight limits) to get the hell out of there? Look at the extremes people did go to like clinging onto a military jet only to fall to their deaths and think to yourself, would I take an uncomfortable but safe journey in a cargo hold? You bet your backside you would! So he’s lying then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s×s Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, Scully said: So he’s lying then? Why tell the truth when a lie will do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, steve s×s said: Why tell the truth when a lie will do Because you’re always found out, and then you’ve proven yourself untrustworthy and deceitful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s×s Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Scully said: Because you’re always found out, and then you’ve proven yourself untrustworthy and deceitful. And then put in the house of Lords 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gu5 Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Rob85 said: I don't buy this whole thing about animals in the cargo hold and its unsuitable for humans in there. The cargo hold has to be pressurised and warm enough for the animals to survive. If you were fleeing the taliban would you not be happy to take any little nook and cranny possible(within the aircrafts weight limits) to get the hell out of there? Look at the extremes people did go to like clinging onto a military jet only to fall to their deaths and think to yourself, would I take an uncomfortable but safe journey in a cargo hold? You bet your backside you would! I bet all that’s preventing the hold use is something like there’s no emergency oxygen masks and no emergency exit - surely if it is only these reasons, somebody could have overridden the rules in this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, Gu5 said: I bet all that’s preventing the hold use is something like there’s no emergency oxygen masks and no emergency exit - surely if it is only these reasons, somebody could have overridden the rules in this situation? So you’ve made a guess, then based the rest of your post on that guess! 🤷♂️ Surely someone must have googled the question by now? How hard can it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gu5 Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 I’m also going to guess there’s thousands of people on the ground that would have happily taken a space in any hold - but as I’m not there I can’t do a survey to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 15 hours ago, ditchman said: they've killed Geronimo I know ditchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Gu5 said: I’m also going to guess there’s thousands of people on the ground that would have happily taken a space in any hold - but as I’m not there I can’t do a survey to check. Yeah, let’s just base all our conclusions on guesswork. That’ll work. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockybasher Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 22 hours ago, Scully said: Discussed on the J Vine show today. Apparently all the animals were in cargo hold, which isn’t suitable for people, and all available spaces for people were specifically allocated for people, although he couldn’t get out as many people ( including staff ) as he wanted due to the Taliban preventing at gunpoint, indigenous people from getting onto the airfield. He stressed at no point were animals given preference over humans, which according to him, cannot travel in cargo. I believe he was the only passenger on the aircraft, unable to board any of his team, nor anyone else !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s×s Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 22 hours ago, ditchman said: they've killed Geronimo No he fell off his horse and got pneumonia 🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted September 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) I listened to the Jeremy Vine ‘interview’, took a bit of fast forwarding as it was about 37 minutes into his show. It certainly did not warm me to the man, but he did seem much more ‘with it’ than I expected. I suppose given the limited information I know of him I had pictured a very damaged and fragile combat veteran who had turned to animals from the horror of war stereotype. I found Farthing to be polished, composed and calculated. The media training of his PR team oozed through the carefully worded apology he delivered. I was saddened to learn that he had left a woman with a newborn baby on the tarmac. One of his own team. He said he had no choice, whilst this is impossible to know there is no reason not to believe him. We all make our own decisions, he has clearly been a brave man previously but leaving that woman and baby in the hands of the Taliban is not the decision I would make, nor one I could live with. I left the interview with no more fact that what we have known from the very outset, I am just more confused about the charismatic leader’s morality and motivations. As a side I found Jeremy didn’t really ask him any searching questions about the wider aspect of distraction in a crisis, it certainly was more ‘Lorraine’ than ‘Today Programme’. Nonetheless thank you Scully for recommending the clip. It is interesting to explore more widely; consider the alternative view and try to see the issue from someone else’s perspective. I appreciate that I am too entrenched in my position (coloured by dislike of the animal fanatics) to give this guy or the endeavour a fair assessment. Edited September 1, 2021 by WalkedUp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: I listened to the Jeremy Vine ‘interview’, took a bit of fast forwarding as it was about 37 minutes into his show. It certainly did not warm me to the man, but he did seem much more ‘with it’ than I expected. I suppose given the limited information I know of him I had pictured a very damaged and fragile combat veteran who had turned to animals from the horror of war stereotype. I found Farthing to be polished, composed and calculated. The media training of his PR team oozed through the carefully worded apology he delivered. I was saddened to learn that he had left a woman with a newborn baby on the tarmac. One of his own team. He said he had no choice, whilst this is impossible to know there is no reason not to believe him. We all make our own decisions, he has clearly been a brave man previously but leaving that woman and baby in the hands of the Taliban is not the decision I would make, nor one I could live with. I left the interview with no more fact that what we have known from the very outset, I am just more confused about the charismatic leader’s morality and motivations. As a side I found Jeremy didn’t really ask him any searching questions about the wider aspect of distraction in a crisis, it certainly was more ‘Lorraine’ than ‘Today Programme’. Nonetheless thank you Scully for recommending the clip. It is interesting to explore more widely; consider the alternative view and try to see the issue from someone else’s perspective. I appreciate that I am too entrenched in my position (coloured by dislike of the animal fanatics) to give this guy or the endeavour a fair assessment. Fair enough, and I appreciate your honesty. I’m not a Vine fan nor a regular listener, I just happened to be a bit of a captive audience on that particular day at that particular time. He is an awful interviewer whom no one can surely take seriously, who should stick to politics. I’m not a fan of animal rights fanatics either, and although I can understand where they’re coming from, they seem to be irrational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 14 hours ago, stockybasher said: I believe he was the only passenger on the aircraft, unable to board any of his team, nor anyone else !!!! I have read somewhere he said he was the only passenger on the plane and then talks about the vet ( I assumed that was veterinarian rather than veteran) that was on the plane with him and the animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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