enfieldspares Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: You can delude yourselves as much as you want, the public are absolutely against it. Shooting, they're okay with, but that could change very easily if we back the hunts. This. I'm happy though to back "the hunts" to the full and complete extent to which they backed shooters in 1988 (the self-loading rifle ban) and in 1996 (the handgun ban). So that's a big, fat, round....ZERO! Edited October 31, 2021 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 53 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: You can delude yourselves as much as you want, the public are absolutely against it. Shooting, they're okay with, but that could change very easily if we back the hunts. I’m not defending hunting with hounds at all, but to be accurate, you participated in a thread on the shooting of hounds, and based your claims of acts of illegality on that, despite it not being illegal to shoot hounds, or dogs for that matter. I believe a huge state of indifference exists amongst the general public regarding hunting with hounds ( as the NT poll shows ) and also shooting, but that indifference can easily be counteracted by the way the question is phrased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 46 minutes ago, Scully said: I’m not defending hunting with hounds at all, but to be accurate, you participated in a thread on the shooting of hounds, and based your claims of acts of illegality on that, despite it not being illegal to shoot hounds, or dogs for that matter. I believe a huge state of indifference exists amongst the general public regarding hunting with hounds ( as the NT poll shows ) and also shooting, but that indifference can easily be counteracted by the way the question is phrased. No, I stated that many hunts used drag hunting as a cover to break the law, that claim is backed up in the article above. It is well documented, the public find the hunting of foxes with hounds a abhorrent and the vast majority are completely opposed to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 45 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: No, I stated that many hunts used drag hunting as a cover to break the law, that claim is backed up in the article above. It is well documented, the public find the hunting of foxes with hounds a abhorrent and the vast majority are completely opposed to it. No, you first mentioned the shooting of a dog, and then went on to make your statements about hunts breaking laws. It may be well documented, but it’s also now documented that the vast majority of NT members couldn’t even be bothered to vote. Make of that what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, Scully said: No, you first mentioned the shooting of a dog, and then went on to make your statements about hunts breaking laws. It may be well documented, but it’s also now documented that the vast majority of NT members couldn’t even be bothered to vote. Make of that what you will. Re read the thread. I mentioned the fact hunts often shoot fit and healthy dogs and how I disagree with doing that, but I stated very clearly it was legal. I went on to say how many hunts act illegally and how some are disrespectful to land owners ect. It angered some on here and they denied it, yet here is an article backing up much of what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Re read the thread. I mentioned the fact hunts often shoot fit and healthy dogs and how I disagree with doing that, but I stated very clearly it was legal. I went on to say how many hunts act illegally and how some are disrespectful to land owners ect. It angered some on here and they denied it, yet here is an article backing up much of what I said. I have re read it. You first mentioned the shooting of dogs, and went on from there to make claims of hunts acting illegally. I never stated you claimed it was illegal to shoot dogs, but you used the shooting of dogs as your reason for signing the petition and then went on to justify your decision by claiming various illegal acts conducted by hunts. I genuinely couldn’t care less one way or another about hunting with hounds, as far as I’m aware it’s already been banned. If trail hunting is banned also, then there will be more than the odd hound shot as they will become superfluous to requirements overnight, and then once all that has gone ALL attention will be focussed on shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Scully said: I have re read it. You first mentioned the shooting of dogs, and went on from there to make claims of hunts acting illegally. I never stated you claimed it was illegal to shoot dogs, but you used the shooting of dogs as your reason for signing the petition and then went on to justify your decision by claiming various illegal acts conducted by hunts. I genuinely couldn’t care less one way or another about hunting with hounds, as far as I’m aware it’s already been banned. If trail hunting is banned also, then there will be more than the odd hound shot as they will become superfluous to requirements overnight, and then once all that has gone ALL attention will be focussed on shooting. Thank you for confirming what I said, I appreciate your honesty. I would say my claim that many hunts act illegally is true and I'd be amazed if most on here don't already know that, as I'm sure your aware, trail hunting is often used as a cover for illegal hunting. I don't believe the majority of the public has an issue with shooters, but I do believe that would change rapidly if we tried to get behind the hunts. Like I said earlier, attempting to save hunting with hounds is flogging a dead horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 The vast majority of the public dont actually care about anything that doesn't affect them. They don't care about hunting or shooting or the environment or being carbon neutral or any of the other bull **** we have rammed down our throat on a daily basis. They believe what they're told by the last person that told them. The biggest threat to country sports is ourselves. Shooters hate Hunters, Hunters hate Shooters, lurcher men are hated by everyone. Shooting is worse in that there's so many factions and none cooperate. We won't ever stick together because "it won't affect me" and the anti brigade will slowly chip away and destroy our way of life and by the time it affects you who thought it wouldn't, it will be too late. I avoid getting involved in the whole hunting debate because feeling always runs too high. But look at the number of convictions for illegal hunting despite the huge scrutiny by the smelly hairy lot. More people are prosecuted for raptor perfection than illegal hunting...so does that mean actually we're all out there shooting golden eagles every Tuesday just for a laugh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 If hunting goes and I fear it will. The anti's won't pack in and go home. All their efforts will be focused on shooting, fishing will also be on their radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 39 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Thank you for confirming what I said, I appreciate your honesty. I would say my claim that many hunts act illegally is true and I'd be amazed if most on here don't already know that, as I'm sure your aware, trail hunting is often used as a cover for illegal hunting. I don't believe the majority of the public has an issue with shooters, but I do believe that would change rapidly if we tried to get behind the hunts. Like I said earlier, attempting to save hunting with hounds is flogging a dead horse. But none of the general public know, let alone care, if shooters are ‘behind the hunts’ or not! No one is sitting there thinking ‘well no shooters have supported our attempts to get hound packs banned so they must be in support of hunting’. It just isn’t happening. You are of course perfectly entitled to sign the petition, but don’t for one moment believe it will make a difference to how shooters are viewed. The antis don’t differentiate between fox hunters and shooters, they regard all field sports followers as one and the same, and the general public couldn’t care less, as the results of the NT vote explicitly shows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptC Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, redial said: If hunting goes and I fear it will. The anti's won't pack in and go home. All their efforts will be focused on shooting, fishing will also be on their radar. Fishing and shooting have been on their list for a long time. Shoots raided and fishermen assaulted. Rabid antis are very dangerous having experienced pepper being thrown in my horses face at a meet. Animal lovers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Scully said: But none of the general public know, let alone care, if shooters are ‘behind the hunts’ or not! No one is sitting there thinking ‘well no shooters have supported our attempts to get hound packs banned so they must be in support of hunting’. It just isn’t happening. You are of course perfectly entitled to sign the petition, but don’t for one moment believe it will make a difference to how shooters are viewed. The antis don’t differentiate between fox hunters and shooters, they regard all field sports followers as one and the same, and the general public couldn’t care less, as the results of the NT vote explicitly shows! I'll agree there, however, imo if shooters backed the hunts (not that I would anyway), we'd draw negative attention to ourselves and via association we'd probably be tarred with the same brush. Its all irrelevant anyway, hunting with hounds is going the same way as the dodo, fighting it is futile and I can't say I'm not glad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: if shooters backed the hunts (not that I would anyway), we'd draw negative attention to ourselves and via association we'd probably be tarred with the same brush. it’s a bit late now they only have to read what’s on here to see where shootings support lies unless we do the fastest U turn in history damage is already out there waiting to come back and bite us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 20 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I'll agree there, however, imo if shooters backed the hunts (not that I would anyway), we'd draw negative attention to ourselves and via association we'd probably be tarred with the same brush. Its all irrelevant anyway, hunting with hounds is going the same way as the dodo, fighting it is futile and I can't say I'm not glad. We’re already tarred with the same brush, to believe otherwise is silly. You may well be right regarding your second paragraph, along with the hounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 44 minutes ago, CaptC said: Fishing and shooting have been on their list for a long time. Shoots raided and fishermen assaulted. Rabid antis are very dangerous having experienced pepper being thrown in my horses face at a meet. Animal lovers? Agreed, but if hunting stopped imagine the greater emphasis they could / would put into shooting and fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 30 minutes ago, Scully said: We’re already tarred with the same brush, to believe otherwise is silly. You may well be right regarding your second paragraph, along with the hounds. I hope not but maybe your right, time will tell I suppose, not a great deal we can do about it other than enjoy it while we have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 It seems that the National Trust have now appointed and ex RSPCA man as their new chairman. May be it will bring a better focus on what they should be doing? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10315169/National-Trust-appoints-RSPCA-chief-new-chairman.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: It seems that the National Trust have now appointed and ex RSPCA man as their new chairman. May be it will bring a better focus on what they should be doing? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10315169/National-Trust-appoints-RSPCA-chief-new-chairman.html Well at least reading the article the fella hasn't gone down the politically correct route before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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