LED Light Bulb Confusion

[Dasher]

Physics has never been my strong point yet alone electrics so please be gentle......... I have bought a ceiling light that states max bulb of 42watt as below...

Specifications

Cap fittingEdison screw cap (E27)

Drop1200mm

Energy rating pre 2021A++ - E

Equivalent wattage42W

Glass finishSmoke

IP ratingIP20

MaterialGlass & metal

Maximum bulb wattage42W

Model name/number33233

Number of bulbs3

Product diameter800mm

Product height1200mm

Product code5020024516993

I have installed some 5.5W LED bulbs(equivalent to 42W incandescent) which are far to dim so can I use a 10W LED bulb (equivalent to 60W incandesant) or even a 42W Halogen?

 

[12gauge82]

I would say your probably fine with 10w led as they run alot cooler than halogen. 10w led will give equivalent light of nearly 100w. I'm sure others will be along soon to give a definitive answer. 

[Dasher]

I'm sure I'm over thinking it but the more I research it the more confused I get! 

Where it states "Equivalent wattage42W"  Does this refer to the power in or the power out in comparison to incandescent bulbs?

[Medic1281]

13 minutes ago, Dasher said:

I'm sure I'm over thinking it but the more I research it the more confused I get! 

Where it states "Equivalent wattage42W"  Does this refer to the power in or the power out in comparison to incandescent bulbs?

That’s the equivalent “brightness” of the bulb. Power consumption of led bulbs are a lot lower but the brightness is equivalent to the halogen bulbs. Hope that makes sense

[Dasher]

12 minutes ago, Medic1281 said:

That’s the equivalent “brightness” of the bulb. Power consumption of led bulbs are a lot lower but the brightness is equivalent to the halogen bulbs. Hope that makes sense

So based on the item description stating 

 

                                                                      Equivalent wattage42W

                                                                                     Maximum bulb wattage42W

 

Does that mean I can't use a 10 Watt LED bulb?

 

[Schmitty]

Further down the list It says "maximum bulb wattage 42W". It's made to take up to a 40w incandescent lamp (old style light bulb) so fitting a 10w or higher LED will be fine.... Just don't exceed 40w overall power consumption....so 4x10w led's

A 40w incandescent gives out approx 450 lumens of light and a 60w is 800 lumens.

Led 5.5w = approx 450 limens

Led 10w = approx 800 lumens

 

 

[Dasher]

You would have thought it would have been clearly written in the description, or perhaps it's just me. 🤔

[Tonka54]

The way I understand this is, your fitting will take 3 Edison screw 27mm (E27) bulbs, Each of which can have a maximum equivalent of 42w.

This will give you a total maximum wattage for the light fitting of 126w equivalent. 

When replacing traditional lighting with LED's you match the lumens not the wattage. (see chart below)

1. A. 40-watt incandescent and 9-13 watt CFL bulbs give 450 lumens and can be replaced with 4-5 watt LEDs
2. B. 60-watt incandescent and 13-18 watt CFL bulbs give 750 to 900 lumens and can be replaced with 6-8 watt LEDs
3. C. 75-100 watt incandescent and 18-22 watt CFL bulbs give 1100 to 1300 lumens and can be replaced with 9-13 watt LEDs
4. D. 100-watt incandescent and 23-30 watt CFL bulbs give 1600 to 1800 lumens and can be replaced with 16-20 watt LEDs
5. E. 150-watt incandescent and 50-55 watt CFL bulbs give 2600 to 2800 lumens and can be replaced with 25-28 watt LEDs.

What this means is that your 3 bulb light fitting can be expected to be of equivalent brightness to that of a single old type bayonet bulb of 120w power rating, but because the new bulbs are LED's they will only draw 5.5w per bulb.

If this is not bright enough, you have two options.  1) fit another of the same light fitting in parallel, 2) purchase a fitting that can cope with more powerful bulbs.

  

Edited December 5, 2021 by Tonka54

[Dave-G]

9 minutes ago, Dasher said:

You would have thought it would have been clearly written in the description, or perhaps it's just me. 🤔

I'd have expected it to come with bulbs in the package.

[Centrepin]

7 minutes ago, Dasher said:

You would have thought it would have been clearly written in the description, or perhaps it's just me. 🤔

Nah, they think everyone can understand everything wots written in google and have a degree in maths.

Mathematics and numbers always confuse me too. I have to break things down to basics slowly or have it explained. Most of the answers above confuse me. I often write it out on paper to help myself. 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Dasher said:

So based on the item description stating 

 

                                                                      Equivalent wattage42W

                                                                                     Maximum bulb wattage42W

 

Does that mean I can't use a 10 Watt LED bulb?

 

No, if it were me I'd happily stick 10w led bulbs in that fitting. 

Disclaimer, I'm not an electrican and take no responsibility if you burn your house down 😅

[Tonka54]

1 hour ago, Dasher said:

So based on the item description stating 

 

                                                                      Equivalent wattage42W

                                                                                     Maximum bulb wattage42W

 

Does that mean I can't use a 10 Watt LED bulb?

 

Your light fitting is designed to take 3 LED bulbs, Each of these bulbs can be a max equivalent of the old (incandescent) 40w bulb. This is so that the wiring within your light fitting does not overheat, therefore causing a fire hazard.

This would mean that the 5.5w LED bulbs you have would be correct for your fitting as the lumens match that of the old 40w bulbs at 450 lumens per bulb.

Having said this, it is normal policy to apply a rating that is only half of what appliance's are normally tested for, so in theory, you may well be able to get away with a 10w bulb but would you really want to risk it.   

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, Dasher said:

So based on the item description stating 

 

                                                                      Equivalent wattage42W

                                                                                     Maximum bulb wattage42W

 

Does that mean I can't use a 10 Watt LED bulb?

 

 

B&Q, the light fitting is designed to take 3 x 42w (Lumen Equivalent to Old 60W tungsten bulbs) halogen bulbs for a total of 126w.

https://www.diy.com/departments/dafyd-flush-antique-copper-smoke-3-lamp-ceiling-light/5020024516993_BQ.prd

No LED bulb is going to cause this unit any issues with regards power draw, so go for the brightest bulbs you can, 10w to 20w that you will like to look at through the glass fitting.

In my old 60w light fittings and the newer "42w" halogen ones, I run

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TECHGOMADE-Equivalent-Non-Dimmable-Courtyard-Kitchen/dp/B07925DLLX/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/261-1042340-1313565?pd_rd_w=ORdsn&pf_rd_p=c7ea61ca-7168-47e3-9c8b-d84748f5b23c&pf_rd_r=ZF52PEWX2ASXX51A5293&pd_rd_r=02da4fb5-dcad-4e76-b394-7e31c2ba065c&pd_rd_wg=aCU3U&pd_rd_i=B07925DLLX&th=1

Not the prettiest in an open fitting, but dim light is not an issue.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Stonepark

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, Stonepark said:

 

B&Q, the light fitting is designed to take 3 x 42w (Lumen Equivalent to Old 60W tungsten bulbs) halogen bulbs for a total of 126w.

https://www.diy.com/departments/dafyd-flush-antique-copper-smoke-3-lamp-ceiling-light/5020024516993_BQ.prd

No LED bulb is going to cause this unit any issues with regards power draw, so go for the brightest bulbs you can, 10w to 20w that you will like to look at through the glass fitting.

In my old 60w light fittings and the newer "42w" halogen ones, I run

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TECHGOMADE-Equivalent-Non-Dimmable-Courtyard-Kitchen/dp/B07925DLLX/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/261-1042340-1313565?pd_rd_w=ORdsn&pf_rd_p=c7ea61ca-7168-47e3-9c8b-d84748f5b23c&pf_rd_r=ZF52PEWX2ASXX51A5293&pd_rd_r=02da4fb5-dcad-4e76-b394-7e31c2ba065c&pd_rd_wg=aCU3U&pd_rd_i=B07925DLLX&th=1

Not the prettiest in an open fitting, but dim light is not an issue.

 

 

This is correct in my unqualified opinion. 

[JohnfromUK]

If you are buying/ordering more bulbs, note that (as well as the right base cap/type) with LEDs you need to be sure that they are 'dim-able' if you use a dimmer - non dim-able are usually cheaper if you only have on/off switches.  Also you need to choose the 'colour' from warm white, daylight etc.  Personally I find some daylight types can be very 'hard' and prefer 'warm' white for domestic use.

[stumpy69]

I assume these are the lights,

https://www.diy.com/departments/dafyd-flush-antique-copper-smoke-3-lamp-ceiling-light/5020024516993_BQ.prd

If that is the case then the maximum wattage per bulb is 42W. The reference to equivalent wattage is what is causing confusion but shouldn't really be there as the light fitting does not have an equivalent wattage unless it comes with bulbs. 

The listing states 3x E27 GLS Max. 42W bulbs required, this means that the wiring within the fitting can take 3 x 42W bulbs. Theoretically you could fit 3 x 42W LED bulbs into the fitting but you would need sunglasses to go into the room as you would have an equivalent of somewhere around 300W per bulb and would be brighter than the sun!😎

 

[Tonka54]

Dasher the bottom line is this, the specifications for the light fitting you have states that each bulb of the 3 should be no greater than 42w equivalent.

As previously said, when changing from the old (Incandescent) light bulbs to the new LED/halogen bulbs, the matching up should be done using the brightness of the bulbs, (Lumens)  not the power rating (Watts).

The nearest LED bulb that matches a 42w equivalent brightness is a 5.5w, this would be equal in brightness to an incandescent bulb of 40w as both have a Lumen rating of 450.

In fairness though, if you decided your 5.5w LED's are not quite bright enough, you may be able to get away with LED bulbs that are 60w equivalent brightness (  750 to 900 lumens) as they will only draw slightly more power at ( 6-8 watts ).

My advise to you would be not to chance going beyond this slight change as to do so would be against the recommended specs for your light fitting, this could not only be a fire risk but could cause insurance issues in the event of a claim.

Incidentally, you do not mention in what context the lighting is being used for, although the individual brightness of your bulbs is only equivalent to a 40w bulb, the 3 together add up to 1350 Lumens, this is equivalent to an incandescent bulb of 120w, that's pretty frigging bright.

However, if this light fitting is in the centre of a largish room, and all the light from it is just downward directional, then you could expect a very bright area directly under the light fitting but the corners of the room would be quite dim in comparison.

This is why shops, garages and factories etc. etc. mainly use florescent lighting within diffused light fittings, because the light from these is omni directional and therefore each individual light covers a greater area with diffused light rather than a concentrated downward beam, it also means that the bulbs/tubes do not have to be such a high wattage to achieve the same brightness.   

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, Tonka54 said:

Dasher the bottom line is this, the specifications for the light fitting you have states that each bulb of the 3 should be no greater than 42w equivalent.

The light fitting is wired to safely use a 40w (power) bulb in each of 3.  Equivalent light output has noting to do with it's safety. 

21 hours ago, Dasher said:

Maximum bulb wattage42W

The lamp drawn wattage is the important number not the equivalent light output

Edited December 6, 2021 by Yellow Bear

[stumpy69]

34 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

The light fitting is wired to safely use a 40w (power) bulb in each of 3.  Equivalent light output has noting to do with it's safety. 

The lamp drawn wattage is the important number not the equivalent light output

This is correct. I would put a bet that the instructions in the package have no mention of equivalent light output as it is irrelevant to safety. 

[JohnfromUK]

33 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

The light fitting is wired to safely use a 40w (power) bulb in each of 3.

Agreed.  The limit was often because both the old filament bulbs and halogen bulbs generated a lot of heat, and a 40W ran hot, 6OW hotter and 100W very hot.  The limit was often the heat tolerance of the fitting and shade components.

LEDs are a much lower Wattage and generate almost no heat, so won't be an issue as any LED will be below 40W.

[Dasher]

Thank you all so much for your inputs. These lights are in my kitchen which has a high ceiling and 5.5W LED's simply aren't  bright enough so I think I'll try some 10W .

I honestly thought I was the only one that didn't fully grasp all this but it just goes to show packaging for lights needs to be far clearer.

 

 "How many Pigeon Watch members does it take to change a light bulb?"

😁💡

Many thanks again.

Dasher