Worst season in 22 years

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Have you got one or two neighbouring shoots on your boundaries?

Oh yes, as I’ve said elsewhere, there are several local shoots; I doubt you could walk far around here without being on someone’s shoot, which is another reason we bought the birds, as it never sat comfortable with one or two of us feeding but not supplying. There is a shoot across the river, and others within a mile or so as the crow flies. 
We’re under no illusions that this helps of course, which is obviously what you’re alluding to, but the birds of the shoot across the river are tagged, and in the minority in the bags we see, to the extent one of our guns takes great delight in calling the landowner of that shoot and telling him when we’ve picked one of his birds. 🙂

I’ve no doubt we shoot birds from other shoots also, but that works both ways as they’ll be shooting ours too. Ex-layers don’t have the monopoly on wandering, and as you’ll know, there are many reasons they do so, and if you drive birds off your land simply through a lack of choice to drive them elsewhere, then the problem is exacerbated. 
When we fed to attract the birds of others we would maybe get a handful each outing; our bags increased significantly when we bought the ex-layers.
I think our biggest bag is around 30. 

[Fellside]

4 minutes ago, Jim Neal said:

We managed a 35% return the year we had the extra ones late on.  Most other recent years it's around the 25% mark, give or take.  I think most people would agree that's pretty respectable for ex-layers, when your shoot covers over 2,000 acres with smallish woods dotted all over, and you haven't got any other shoots directly bordering you.

I've heard of consistently worse returns from poults.

The worst birds for wandering we ever had was a batch of 350 melanistics which we put in one pen.  I think they were caught-up.  We managed about 18% on that pen for the season!

I would say that is more than good for ex layers. Well done!

[jall25]

3 minutes ago, Jim Neal said:

I don't consider it sustainable either!  I have been tearing my hair out the last 3 seasons.  The pen is being moved this year after several years of my campaigning!

It certainly isn't the best solution to re-stock into a diseased pen but they went in with a dose of antibiotics, had a ton of pellet thrown at them and then the wire lifted all within about a fortnight.  I literally moved all feed from the pen out to the drives to avoid holding any in the diseased area, which was a big gamble but it paid off: the pre-existing birds were already going up to the covers so I just hoped the new ones would latch on to them and be led to the food.  It worked, thankfully.

Good man

 

Your shoot sounds  a little like ours was a few years ago where previous members had got stuck in a rut a little

We have gone from shooting twenties to a constant 100/120

I fortunately have now brought a few of the old members with me on our journey and i wish you well too

[Jim Neal]

Just now, jall25 said:

I fortunately have now brought a few of the old members with me on our journey and i wish you well too

If you've ever tried to lead a horse somewhere it doesn't want to go, you know where I am at the moment!

[Fellside]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

Oh yes, as I’ve said elsewhere, there are several local shoots; I doubt you could walk far around here without being on someone’s shoot, which is another reason we bought the birds, as it never sat comfortable with one or two of us feeding but not supplying. There is a shoot across the river, and others within a mile or so as the crow flies. 
We’re under no illusions that this helps of course, which is obviously what you’re alluding to, but the birds of the shoot across the river are tagged, and in the minority in the bags we see, to the extent one of our guns takes great delight in calling the landowner of that shoot and telling him when we’ve picked one of his birds. 🙂

I’ve no doubt we shoot birds from other shoots also, but that works both ways as they’ll be shooting ours too. Ex-layers don’t have the monopoly on wandering, and as you’ll know, there are many reasons they do so, and if you drive birds off your land simply through a lack of choice to drive them elsewhere, then the problem is exacerbated. 
When we fed to attract the birds of others we would maybe get a handful each outing; our bags increased significantly when we bought the ex-layers.
I think our biggest bag is around 30. 

Sounds like a nice little set up. Good to do the decent thing - contributing pheasants to the area. The neighbours will respect you for that. 

[jall25]

Just now, Jim Neal said:

If you've ever tried to lead a horse somewhere it doesn't want to go, you know where I am at the moment!

Yes i have 

Keep going !

Try and keep the people involved so they feel part of a community

i have regular team bonding days/ nights - from a day at the football to a night bowling or a morning counting wild birds and erecting bird boxes  to hedge planting

When i do something positive i highlight this to the other members and they now appreciate and indeed wholly support me

[Woodbepigeonshooter]

It has been a strange season with some of the issues raised hitting a chord. 

Early in the season we shot a lot of birds from the previous year understanding that if we didn’t they would dominate the feeders as the new birds spread from the pens. The new birds did spread but only come back when we have a hard frost. The birds will only return for the food source when needed.

The cover crop failed( maize) or would have been very patchy so replaced with a keepers relief ( 12 different seeds) type and is has provided fantastic cover although I cannot see evidence of birds feeding on it so the birds have ploughed through the wheat. We may have planted it too densely as it is thick but you live and learn.

We should finish the year at somewhere between 30-40% but bags seem lower but the cartridge count has been higher , could be poor shots but the weather on shoot days we have had a good breeze and the birds have been like rockets. Guns miss

every shoot hopes that birds held will breed and we would see the odd young bird in the quiet spots in previous years . This year I saw 3 or 4 hens with little “ bees” or chicks which I had never seen before but obviously covid left a lot more birds but the likely hood of them surviving is low as we know.

On a small part time shoot the  biggest impact is managing the vermin at the right time. We would shoot 30-40 squirrels per year this year we trapped for the first time around the pens and added another 100 to that figure. You don’t catch anything in summer.

We poison the rats in the pens at the end of the season so we are clear for the new birds and low risk of anything else eating the dead rats.

We use Larson traps at the end of the season as they pair up and become more territorial 

Foxes are shot all year but most are shot as cubs as this is easier and effective, we do get the odd one or two seen on a shoot day but we operate a no ground game rule.

I have not shot in a frost for 6 years and8 years for snow. This season I have worn a coat twice and only once for rain 

Most is as it has always been, the weather is not.

 

 

[Jim Neal]

1 hour ago, jall25 said:

Yes i have 

Keep going !

Try and keep the people involved so they feel part of a community

i have regular team bonding days/ nights - from a day at the football to a night bowling or a morning counting wild birds and erecting bird boxes  to hedge planting

When i do something positive i highlight this to the other members and they now appreciate and indeed wholly support me

I hear you.  Trouble is I'm not the shoot captain - I have a fair bit of sway as I'm probably de-facto 2nd in command but ultimately I don't get to make the decisions.

It's an uphill battle but I will never give up

[bishop]

On 03/01/2022 at 18:35, Weihrauch17 said:

What's the bet hard weather will return as soon as the season ends!! 

More than likely!

[jall25]

9 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

I hear you.  Trouble is I'm not the shoot captain - I have a fair bit of sway as I'm probably de-facto 2nd in command but ultimately I don't get to make the decisions.

It's an uphill battle but I will never give up

Good man

its worth it 

[Scully]

12 hours ago, Fellside said:

Sounds like a nice little set up. Good to do the decent thing - contributing pheasants to the area. The neighbours will respect you for that. 

Yeah, it is a nice little set up. Unfortunately it looks like it may be coming to an end. I still have, and always will have, permission to shoot the land, but as an organised 3/4 rough 1/4 driven shoot it’s on the wain. 
When I lived locally I could walk there in less than fifteen minutes and drive in about three, but I’ve moved, and no one else seems bothered now. 
It was always the same three folk who turned up every Sunday morning ( including the mate who actually lives there! ) sought the feeders and built their legs, drilled holes and attached springs trays etc, and then drove round topping them up with the feed we had sourced and collected, repaired stiles, fences, planted cover crops and cleared the ponds, erected cover within the pen, repaired the pen, did whatever pest control we did. We thinned out the quite extensive wood to let the sun get to the ground so cover would grow, and it did, and funnily enough we had ample help when clearing the wood as it meant free firewood! 
As a timber framer I showed the other two how to build a permanent hide, and we built it together, and erected it with great views across part of the shoot ( it is a working farm so we always lamped foxes anyhow ) and covered it in roof/frameshield. Before I moved away over four years ago I told them how to clad it and finish it off, but those who live within minutes of the shoot haven’t done so and the membrane is torn, weathered and hanging off in places so the weather has actually got to the frame. A complete and utter waste of time, effort and money. I wouldn’t mind, but they’re really keen rifle shooters, but obviously just can’t be *****. It’s as though now I’m not there to organise things no one else can be bothered! I even organised the food we had each shoot, and went to collect it! That came to an end when one of the guns stated there was nothing to eat it with! It was worse than babysitting! 
Anyhow, I can’t blame the landowner, he’s a nice bloke and a good mate, but is single handed with three young kids, one of whom has severe learning difficulties, so his free time is extremely limited. The others are retired, whereas I am not, so if I’m not there very little gets done. 
We haven’t shot it for the last two seasons for obvious reasons, and I just use it as a little walk around with my dog and a gun, which is what I did before trying to turn it into something more. It’s a little bit sad and more than a little annoying, but it is what it is.
I don’t even bother to tell most of the others when I’m going for a walkabout now, and just go on my own. Apart from bolting rabbits to guns I just mooch about, shoot enough to fill my game bag and come home. It’s a wonderful little place. 
Anyhow, that turned into a bit of a rant. 🙂

Edited to add: I feel your pain Jim Neil! 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Scully

[Fellside]

35 minutes ago, Scully said:

Yeah, it is a nice little set up. Unfortunately it looks like it may be coming to an end. I still have, and always will have, permission to shoot the land, but as an organised 3/4 rough 1/4 driven shoot it’s on the wain. 
When I lived locally I could walk there in less than fifteen minutes and drive in about three, but I’ve moved, and no one else seems bothered now. 
It was always the same three folk who turned up every Sunday morning ( including the mate who actually lives there! ) sought the feeders and built their legs, drilled holes and attached springs trays etc, and then drove round topping them up with the feed we had sourced and collected, repaired stiles, fences, planted cover crops and cleared the ponds, erected cover within the pen, repaired the pen, did whatever pest control we did. We thinned out the quite extensive wood to let the sun get to the ground so cover would grow, and it did, and funnily enough we had ample help when clearing the wood as it meant free firewood! 
As a timber framer I showed the other two how to build a permanent hide, and we built it together, and erected it with great views across part of the shoot ( it is a working farm so we always lamped foxes anyhow ) and covered it in roof/frameshield. Before I moved away over four years ago I told them how to clad it and finish it off, but those who live within minutes of the shoot haven’t done so and the membrane is torn, weathered and hanging off in places so the weather has actually got to the frame. A complete and utter waste of time, effort and money. I wouldn’t mind, but they’re really keen rifle shooters, but obviously just can’t be *****. It’s as though now I’m not there to organise things no one else can be bothered! I even organised the food we had each shoot, and went to collect it! That came to an end when one of the guns stated there was nothing to eat it with! It was worse than babysitting! 
Anyhow, I can’t blame the landowner, he’s a nice bloke and a good mate, but is single handed with three young kids, one of whom has severe learning difficulties, so his free time is extremely limited. The others are retired, whereas I am not, so if I’m not there very little gets done. 
We haven’t shot it for the last two seasons for obvious reasons, and I just use it as a little walk around with my dog and a gun, which is what I did before trying to turn it into something more. It’s a little bit sad and more than a little annoying, but it is what it is.
I don’t even bother to tell most of the others when I’m going for a walkabout now, and just go on my own. Apart from bolting rabbits to guns I just mooch about, shoot enough to fill my game bag and come home. It’s a wonderful little place. 
Anyhow, that turned into a bit of a rant. 🙂

 

It’s really difficult if they’re friends as well as syndicate members. Have been in that situation before. I think you have found the ideal solution however: your own familiar rough shoot, great for enjoying  an ‘armed stroll’. Perhaps invite a friend occasionally. 

On a large estate shoot which I help to run, the syndicate guns are given a work rota every year, basic feeding etc. That works out quite well. Having the system in print with people’s names on seems to be a motivational factor. Even if someone misses their week (sin of sins), the feeders are sorted the following week and never quite empty.

Prior to this system, it was the typical syndicate thing - 3 or 4 chaps doing everybody else’s work. Some people complained they lived too far away to help out, but turned up on every shoot day….?! They were politely managed out. It’s all much easier now for everyone concerned.

 

 

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, Fellside said:

It’s really difficult if they’re friends as well as syndicate members. Have been in that situation before. I think you have found the ideal solution however: your own familiar rough shoot, great for enjoying  an ‘armed stroll’. Perhaps invite a friend occasionally. 

On a large estate shoot which I help to run, the syndicate guns are given a work rota every year, basic feeding etc. That works out quite well. Having the system in print with people’s names on seems to be a motivational factor. Even if someone misses their week (sin of sins), the feeders are sorted the following week and never quite empty.

Prior to this system, it was the typical syndicate thing - 3 or 4 chaps doing everybody else’s work. Some people complained they lived too far away to help out, but turned up on every shoot day….?! They were politely managed out. It’s all much easier now for everyone concerned.

 

 

Yes, I agree. No one wants to fall out with anyone, and I think your idea of a formal printed rota is the way to go if we start up again, but to be honest really enjoy a solitary stroll or with perhaps one other. 

 

I wouldn’t mind but I really enjoyed tending to the shoot, and haven’t moved far away, only 12 miles, but it becomes a chore when it’s to do every Sunday, and as we all know, those weekends soon come round and I too have commitments. 
You echo our favourite saying…..‘no one has time to work, but plenty of time to shoot!’ 

 

[Fellside]

22 minutes ago, Scully said:

Yes, I agree. No one wants to fall out with anyone, and I think your idea of a formal printed rota is the way to go if we start up again, but to be honest really enjoy a solitary stroll or with perhaps one other. 

 

I wouldn’t mind but I really enjoyed tending to the shoot, and haven’t moved far away, only 12 miles, but it becomes a chore when it’s to do every Sunday, and as we all know, those weekends soon come round and I too have commitments. 
You echo our favourite saying…..‘no one has time to work, but plenty of time to shoot!’ 

 

Good luck. Hope you enjoy your hunting ground - free from the hassles of cat herding. 

[Scully]

4 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Good luck. Hope you enjoy your hunting ground - free from the hassles of cat herding. 

🙂👍Thankyou. 

[Walker570]

19 hours ago, Fellside said:

Interesting - perhaps we had the artsy fartsy sparrows then….?!

I do think it helps if there are good neighboring shoots to keep general numbers up in  the wider area. Strangely I always found the hen birds wandered more - big groups of just hens.

Yep you are probably right on all counts. I can only go by my experience of 40 years running synidcae shoots which only got visited once a week to top up feeders and that is another item to discuss.  We found the more the better and we had about 60 feeders dotted around the shoot (600acres).   Only in January would we struggle to not get a bgrace for all the guns (20 members)  We used just straight wheat in our feders once the birds where out of pens. Initially we fed treated pellts then slowly onto wheat.

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Yep you are probably right on all counts. I can only go by my experience of 40 years running synidcae shoots which only got visited once a week to top up feeders and that is another item to discuss.  We found the more the better and we had about 60 feeders dotted around the shoot (600acres).   Only in January would we struggle to not get a bgrace for all the guns (20 members)  We used just straight wheat in our feders once the birds where out of pens. Initially we fed treated pellts then slowly onto wheat.

Good effort. Big challenge to maintain decent bags through till January. I must say our shoot is holding up well at the moment. Such a lot of birds roaming everywhere early season. They are now holding to woods in the cold weather, and flying like rockets. 

[jall25]

4 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Yep you are probably right on all counts. I can only go by my experience of 40 years running synidcae shoots which only got visited once a week to top up feeders and that is another item to discuss.  We found the more the better and we had about 60 feeders dotted around the shoot (600acres).   Only in January would we struggle to not get a bgrace for all the guns (20 members)  We used just straight wheat in our feders once the birds where out of pens. Initially we fed treated pellts then slowly onto wheat.

I think the thing with feeders is put them in clusters where the birds want to be

Ie - near cover crops / flushing points / water sources / bird seed rides

 

We only use circa 150 acres of our 270 acres and we keep our birds very well

Only at the end of the season do we then spread the feeders out into breeding territories

 

[grahamch]

On a slightly different tack, joined a new syndicate this year, half gun £675 and £30 a day for beaters and not fired 2 boxes of shells over the season so far.....

[Walker570]

13 hours ago, jall25 said:

I think the thing with feeders is put them in clusters where the birds want to be

Ie - near cover crops / flushing points / water sources / bird seed rides

 

We only use circa 150 acres of our 270 acres and we keep our birds very well

Only at the end of the season do we then spread the feeders out into breeding territories

 

Spot on and it may seem silly but if you watch pheasants they will peck at one feeder and then walk along to the next and so on. putting them in a circle ensures they stay in that area.  Put them in a row and when they get to the end one they often just wander on looking for the non existent feeder.   I actually watched 40 or more come into the farmyard this morning to firstly feed on the solids/muck heap then they wandered around the back of the sheds and onto the silage pits then into the fields adjacent...same route every morning, creatures of habit.

[London Best]

26 minutes ago, grahamch said:

On a slightly different tack, joined a new syndicate this year, half gun £675 and £30 a day for beaters and not fired 2 boxes of shells over the season so far.....

Our local farm syndicate is now £1400/gun and you would be lucky to fire one box/season if you had a full gun. I dropped out when it went up from £125 to £200/season twenty years ago, because it was carp then. But they have no problem selling places to people desperate for shooting.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, London Best said:

Our local farm syndicate is now £1400/gun and you would be lucky to fire one box/season if you had a full gun. I dropped out when it went up from £125 to £200/season twenty years ago, because it was carp then. But they have no problem selling places to people desperate for shooting.

Good, that leaves the better places for some of us.  

[London Best]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Good, that leaves the better places for some of us.  

Yeah, some of us have got it sussed.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

13 minutes ago, London Best said:

Yeah, some of us have got it sussed.

But thankfully not that many of us!  

[Walker570]

8 hours ago, London Best said:

Yeah, some of us have got it sussed.

Could this be why there are so many travelling synicates ?   I enjoyed running our syndicate shoot always a buzz and a bit of banter. Eventually it became a heavy weight around my neck and I left and decided to buy my shooting by the day. Yes it cost me much more each season but I still get to shoot with folks I know and have met before fairly frequently and I normally run a couple of days a year for a group of known friends at regular known shoots.

Keeping your birds on the ground takes time and lots of effort and often a do it yourself  shoot just doesn't have the time.