welsh1 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Dave-G said: Bear with me here because I might have missed it but has Russia actually threatened 'anyone who retaliates' with Nukes - or is it the west assuming that's what he meant? I'm wondering if it was deliberately not specified and may possibly mean he refers to 'something else' like perhaps FOAB or even chemicals. "If there is a threat to the territorial integrity of our country, and for protecting our people, we will certainly use all the means available to us - and I'm not bluffing," said vlad."I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history. No matter how the events unfold, we are ready. All the necessary decisions in this regard have been taken. I hope that my words will be heard." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, welsh1 said: "If there is a threat to the territorial integrity of our country, and for protecting our people, we will certainly use all the means available to us - and I'm not bluffing," said vlad."I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history. No matter how the events unfold, we are ready. All the necessary decisions in this regard have been taken. I hope that my words will be heard." So 'technically' thats a No then? 😄 Lets be honest, we all know what he means , just as Russia knows what we mean when we use similar language. Does that make us as bad ? Lets be honest still further, what would be the point of having a nuclear deterrent , if the will wasnt there to use it ? Why dont we just pretend we still have them, and save billions a year on the upkeep ? Im joking obviously, I like having 'the big stick' , but do you seriously think NATO would start a nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine, really ? What is Ukraine worth to us in the west, I suspect not half of what we are lead to believe ? Will Russia use battlefield nukes in Ukraine ? Id like to think not....Yet. But then ,I didnt think theyd invade either, so Ill keep my gob shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: do you seriously think NATO would start a nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine, really ? No - NATO would not use nuclear weapons as a 'first strike' over Ukraine. Never. IF a NATO country was attacked with nuclear weapons, - Yes, they might retaliate - but not unless a 'last resort' was needed Put the question the other way round; Do you seriously think Russia would start a nuclear war with NATO over Ukraine, really ? And that ius the question that is harder to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 4 hours ago, welsh1 said: Theydon't have to do the exercise every year, but if you don't train how do you stay ready and effective? And yet again you try to compare it to something else just to try and deflect from the subject at hand, instead of the subject of russia invading another country and making veiled threats of nuclear strikes, i would be sure russia is observing the exercise, and taking note of the posssible consequences to itself. NATO was formed in 1949, it a collective who all agree that if one member is attacked all members will come to it's aid Funny isn't it that countries like finland and sweden are now so scared of russia they want to join NATO. It tells you a lot about the aggressive nature of russia, and the invasion of ukraine proves the lengths russia will go to against another nation. Has portugal attacked and kept under its rule any other western country or region since the end of the second WW? Fun fact, no country who has joined NATO has ever chosen to leave. How's the warsaw pact doing? All very good points that will unfortunately fall on deaf ears. I really can't understand how some of the people on here can hold such a warped view of reality. For me this must be one of the most bizarre threads I've read on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: No - NATO would not use nuclear weapons as a 'first strike' over Ukraine. Never. IF a NATO country was attacked with nuclear weapons, - Yes, they might retaliate - but not unless a 'last resort' was needed Is that not what I said ? Why would they want to burn the world for a place most Yanks couldnt find on a map ? 12 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Put the question the other way round; Do you seriously think Russia would start a nuclear war with NATO over Ukraine, really ? Why on earth would they , IF Russia used a low yield battlefield nuke in Ukraine , what on earth has that got to do with NATO ? Why would NATO even respond conventionally ? Is it the World police ? Why dont they go in and take Iran out , or Afghanistan , oops , theyve already had a go there 😄 Why not hit China for their treatment and genocide of Uighars ? Free Tibet or something ? Take out the Mexican drug cartels ? Is it a white thing 8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: For me this must be one of the most bizarre threads I've read on here. Wait till I start the lizard thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 31 minutes ago, Rewulf said: So 'technically' thats a No then? 😄 Lets be honest, we all know what he means , just as Russia knows what we mean when we use similar language. Does that make us as bad ? Lets be honest still further, what would be the point of having a nuclear deterrent , if the will wasnt there to use it ? Why dont we just pretend we still have them, and save billions a year on the upkeep ? Im joking obviously, I like having 'the big stick' , but do you seriously think NATO would start a nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine, really ? What is Ukraine worth to us in the west, I suspect not half of what we are lead to believe ? Will Russia use battlefield nukes in Ukraine ? Id like to think not....Yet. But then ,I didnt think theyd invade either, so Ill keep my gob shut. Let's hope that nukes are never used because it's the beginning of the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, welsh1 said: Let's hope that nukes are never used because it's the beginning of the end. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Why on earth would they Good question, but various Russian sources suggest he might, and as earlier in this thread he has said that "we will certainly use all the means available to us - and I'm not bluffing" That presumably can include Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) since we know he has those "available to him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Good question, but various Russian sources suggest he might, and as earlier in this thread he has said that "we will certainly use all the means available to us - and I'm not bluffing" That presumably can include Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) since we know he has those "available to him". We have those too , will we use them ? I dont know , but if we wont use them , why do we have them ? This is why I find it amusing when people say hes mad, deranged, if he is , and , again, as some say , in complete control of the NBC arsenal , why are we prodding the nutter ? Its a circular argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 28 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Is that not what I said ? Why would they want to burn the world for a place most Yanks couldnt find on a map ? Why on earth would they , IF Russia used a low yield battlefield nuke in Ukraine , what on earth has that got to do with NATO ? Why would NATO even respond conventionally ? Is it the World police ? Why dont they go in and take Iran out , or Afghanistan , oops , theyve already had a go there 😄 Why not hit China for their treatment and genocide of Uighars ? Free Tibet or something ? Take out the Mexican drug cartels ? Is it a white thing Wait till I start the lizard thread. 🦎😂😂😂👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: why do we have them ? Because that's how deterrents work. Bit like insurance policies - you hope never to need/use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: We have those too , will we use them ? I dont know , but if we wont use them , why do we have them ? This is why I find it amusing when people say hes mad, deranged, if he is , and , again, as some say , in complete control of the NBC arsenal , why are we prodding the nutter ? Its a circular argument. We always say we would use them in retaliation MAD, in putins case can you trust him ? only recently he said he had no intention of invading Ukraine and look where we are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, welsh1 said: We always say we would use them in retaliation MAD, in putins case can you trust him ? only recently he said he had no intention of invading Ukraine and look where we are today. ill be honest, I dont trust any of them, probably least of all Putin, funny eyes on that one Having said that , I dont like the fact that no ones ever seen Bidens eyes.....Could be lizard eyes for all we know 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rewulf said: ill be honest, I dont trust any of them, probably least of all Putin, funny eyes on that one data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhFAAUAPdxAKeehHtqQGJNGXppP6WbgaKYfGxTCqeKEdKyFu7MGuzJGc2qFKSDD2pQCXVjNpp+EO/RHPjbHvrdH/XWHfDOGuS8FpJyDGlVIMKkFfzhIP7kIf7lIvLRG+nCFrSNDmlUIJOGZbCTEvnbH/3iIUM0EP/mIvHPGua8FKJ8C5KFY29WCvPUHf/lIvbXHevGF9uuEG1QCKGXe62PEu/MGeK3Ep52CqGWenhnPNi3F+S6FMCSC2VQHenHGc6dC+fEGOK3E82aC9OwFd6xEL2MCXhmO6iGDy8kC9mnDZtxB5+VeG9UCea/Ft6vENCbCmxOB6aCDf8hId+yEdWhC5twB2dTHraPDuW8FOvFF92vEK19B2ZQHHNhM49tCtmsEOW7FN6wENinDc6ZCYlkB3JfMWlNCL6QC9WiDNSfC7uKCZpvB2hLCKOZfndmOl9JFAcFAdHPxdTSyQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQFAABxACwAAAAAFAAUAAAI/wDjCBxIsKBBgwACCBAwgMDBggUMHECQQMECBg0KPIzj4AGECBIkRJhAoYIFBwcvYIiQQcOGDRoyRODQwcOHgiBCiBhRoqfPEiJMnECRgqCKFRlKuHHjc2mJFi5ewBgYQ0YEDUyValUaYQaNGjYE3sAhYcPPnxskmMih44bAHTzKnvWZdm2PHW99XJ3bU0NXGkDwxrkRpEVSvj1dCBlCRKCNIiZEkJhMufKJI0iSDFSyhMNkI6BDT2bSxAnBFE86UPgMBYqRyVGkTClKkEoVK1cqT8YiJYuWg1u4dKHhxQuNL2DCiBmzsQCZGmXMnEGTRo3GjQLXsGnThs0a7OANBgEEACH5BAUAAHEALAUABAAKAAkAAAg0AONoEBhH4MA4Ity40cBQ4UA3JUq4iQORxcQSBTFiJFiwo8ePIEN2JEGypMk4RlKqTBknIAAh+QQFAABxACwBAAQAEgAPAAAITADjCBToxs0Ggm4GKhzopkSJhg0fLhzoUGCJOBcxKnxDcaLHjyBDirRIoqTJkyYmXjTCsiXLOClHfuQ4saDCEzJz6tzJcyGciT8VBgQAIfkEBQAAcQAsAQAEABIADwAACEsA4wgUqKEgQQ0DEw4U4cZNQQ0NESoUmMGNQIsW42ScKHGix48gQ4rUUKKkyZIaIsyYmCEOiZcwX8ZxIbLmRCNGEjKxybOnz59AAwIAOw== Having said that , I dont like the fact that no ones ever seen Bidens eyes.....Could be lizard eyes for all we know 😆 The scary thing about binden is we all know he isn't in chage he is just a senile puppet for others wheeled out to the podium with the hope he will remember who and where he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 just thinking ....(yeah i know its not healthy for me) uk has delivered to date 9000 brimstone missiles to ukraine.(ground variant)..and up to march of this year 6000 NLAW's..... i wonder if any nlaws have gone missing and made its way to moscow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Dave-G said: Bear with me here because I might have missed it but has Russia actually threatened 'anyone who retaliates' with Nukes - or is it the west assuming that's what he meant? I'm wondering if it was deliberately not specified and may possibly mean he refers to 'something else' like perhaps FOAB or even chemicals. If Ukraine uses Chemicals, Biologicals or Nukes, Russia will retaliate with Nukes, as they have adopted similar doctorine to the USA or UK that the use of any of the WMD is the equivalent of Nukes. Russia has a defensive doctorine with regards Nukes in that they are only allowed to use them in self defence of the Russian motherland without specific authorisation of their parliament and upper house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 Nato will try to take out Russian nukes as the are fired, loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Russia has a defensive doctorine with regards Nukes in that they are only allowed to use them in self defence of the Russian motherland without specific authorisation of their parliament and upper house. Oh that’s funny. And where is that written down? Is it in law? Seen how the Russian Law Courts deal with anyone who dissents from or challenges Putin? That’s because Putin is the law - he’s in charge of the big Russian petrol station run by gangsters and ex-KGB. But we can trust gangsters and ex-KGB to follow and respect the rules. Mind you they’re no so strong on borders and not murdering their neighbours 😉 Edited October 13, 2022 by Mungler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 Oh and Darth Putin never fails to deliver the goods 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 So the requests for Himars, Tanks, fighter jets has gone quiet and now they asking for air defence systems. Soon Europe is going to have little reserves left for themselves. Soon Zelensky will be asking for troops on the ground. Just keep sending them to the money pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 Quote Soon Europe is going to have little reserves left for themselves. Without any inside knowledge you post yet another pro-Russian post. Lots of supposition, no facts and a rather sad perspective. Why is Russia so important to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 Peace in the Balklans is important. Prolonging the war is not the best outcome for the region. Any lawyer will tell you your chances of winning and the cost. At some point you say the cost is not worth it. Some are zealots and will die for their cause, others say no thanks. Musk said let them vote on twitter if they want to leave, now they are removing his pictures as a supporter in Odessa. That's how fast the if you are not with us, you are against us mood can turn. I see it all the time in governments, unions and the mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, mchughcb said: Peace in the Balklans is important. Prolonging the war is not the best outcome for the region. Any lawyer will tell you your chances of winning and the cost. At some point you say the cost is not worth it. Some are zealots and will die for their cause, others say no thanks. Musk said let them vote on twitter if they want to leave, now they are removing his pictures as a supporter in Odessa. That's how fast the if you are not with us, you are against us mood can turn. I see it all the time in governments, unions and the mob. There was peace in the Balkans but guess what Putin invaded another country and starting killing men women and children. If you want peace then get Putin to withdraw from a country that he invaded. There is only one aggressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 Quote I see it all the time in governments, unions and the mob. So did Walter Mitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 13, 2022 Report Share Posted October 13, 2022 57 minutes ago, welsh1 said: There was peace in the Balkans but guess what Putin invaded another country and starting killing men women and children. If you want peace then get Putin to withdraw from a country that he invaded. There is only one aggressor. And there’s the silence from the shills. Put the Russian tanks and troops in reverse, then let’s have a stab at peace (we’d be 99% there with a withdrawal of course) and as well as workable solution to whatever gripes are doing the rounds that week. So easy, so sensible, so 2021 and yet so much silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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