ordnance Posted October 16, 2022 Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Stonepark said: I think we can all agree that the Ukranian Army invading the Dombass started what is a war. Or was it just imaginary tanks, soldiers, missiles, executions, shelling and bombings until Russia stepped in? How could Ukraine invade part of it's own country 🤔 7 hours ago, Stonepark said: Russia didn't over estimate the Ukranians equipment and capabilities, what they couldn't factor into their estimate is the 120% replacement equipment provide by EU and NATO as arguably for the first time, non-combatant countries stripped their reserves and even front line units of equipment to send to a third party country. Russia has air superiority over the area of the conflict, but instead of aggressive fighter tactics the West would use seeking a countrywide no fly zone, instead rely on over lapping missile systems. No Ukranian aircraft can get within 50 miles of the front line without being engaged and shot down, what those remaining aircraft do in the West of Ukraine doesn't really matter if they can't support the front line. Russian jets, drones and missles can also fly over any part of Ukraine reasonably successfully, hence last week's panic from Ukraine for additional air defence systems to replace those already destroyed as they have few significant air force assets left capable of intercepting Russian bombers, drones or missiles. Have you a link or quote showing Ukrainian aircraft can't get within 50 miles of the front without being shot down ? Or are you making it up as you go along 🤔 Edited October 16, 2022 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 16, 2022 Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 3 hours ago, ordnance said: How could Ukraine invade part of it's own country 🤔 Have you a link or quote showing Ukrainian aircraft can't get within 50 miles of the front without being shot down ? Or are you making it up as you go along 🤔 The coup caused the end of Ukraine as was as a country, as the democratically elected government was overthrown. People were then free to govern themselves or accept the illegal non democratic government supported by the West. The Dombass chose to govern themselves. Most of the recent airstrikes have been with missiles, such as HARM etc, fired from long range (up to 80 miles). Very little actual ground support to front line without losing their aircraft and that is coming from Ukranian sources and reported in the press, so not made up unless you believe the Ukranians are lying. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/08/30/watch-the-ukrainian-air-force-lob-american-missiles-at-russian-radars/?sh=4c94125255e5 https://en.mehrnews.com/news/192467/Russian-air-defense-destroys-two-HARM-18-HIMARS-missiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 16, 2022 Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 Im seeing reports the missiles knocking out planes are launched further than 100 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 16, 2022 Report Share Posted October 16, 2022 Well the big kherson counter offensive was repelled by artillery and the airforce. Chinese are closing embassy an telling citizens to get out. The hard slog at Bakmut is coming to a close and the Lyman counter offensive seems stopped in it's tracks. Not looking good for zelensky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 4 hours ago, mchughcb said: Well the big kherson counter offensive was repelled by artillery and the airforce. Chinese are closing embassy an telling citizens to get out. The hard slog at Bakmut is coming to a close and the Lyman counter offensive seems stopped in it's tracks. Not looking good for zelensky ‘Do not believe anything until the Kremlin deny it’. TM Darth Putin. And as for not looking good for Zelensky - well, he’s still there 235 days later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Its not looking too good for his biggest supporter who's still left either - Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Comply or die. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-musician-yuriy-kerpatenko-for-refusing-role-in-kherson-concert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 46 minutes ago, welsh1 said: Comply or die. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-musician-yuriy-kerpatenko-for-refusing-role-in-kherson-concert Thoroughly despicable act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, welsh1 said: Comply or die. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-musician-yuriy-kerpatenko-for-refusing-role-in-kherson-concert Do you get prizes for repeating such obvious manufactured dribble. "According to colleagues, Yuri Kerpatenko has been at home since the summer and abused alcohol. According to Alexander Malkevich, a member of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation, in his Telegram channel, it was because of alcoholism, and not because of a refusal to cooperate with the Russian authorities, that Kerpatenko was fired from his job. Apparently, the man was in a severe depression. The man has disappeared and an investigation is ongoing - but the Russian military is not involved in this" Edited October 17, 2022 by Stonepark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Quote The man has disappeared and an investigation is ongoing - but the Russian military is not involved in this. How do you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, welsh1 said: Comply or die. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-musician-yuriy-kerpatenko-for-refusing-role-in-kherson-concert Well who knows. At least they report their own peace negotiator died at the hands of their secret service. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ukrainian-negotiator-killed-claims-spying-b986356.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Just now, Gordon R said: How do you know that? 2 minutes ago, Gordon R said: From reading actual news from a multitude of sources and not simply repeating Ukraine's version of Goebbels which the MSM treat as words from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, Stonepark said: From reading actual news from a multitude of sources and not simply repeating Ukraine's version of Goebbels which the MSM treat as words from God. Ah so the stuff you read is all fact and the stuff you don't read isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchughcb Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Yesterday I read that 80% of the targets were hit by mini drones which overwhelmed the air defence systems. Then I heard on Sky news that Ukraine shot down 80% of the drones. Could both be right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Here's one for some to read.https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/kak-rossiya-stala-fashistskoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 Quote Yesterday I read that 80% of the targets were hit by mini drones which overwhelmed the air defence systems. Then I heard on Sky news that Ukraine shot down 80% of the drones. Could both be right? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 A piece about the possible use of nukes , and the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, Rewulf said: A piece about the possible use of nukes , and the consequences. Scary stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, oowee said: Scary stuff. Always scary when it comes to such things. Its all about lack of time to consider suitable response, this is why everyone gets nervous when such things are sited so close to the target. The 3 - 4 minutes you get when a launch is detected, leaves little time to figure out,, 1. Where its going. 2. The response options. 3. Getting the necessary clearances from government to launch. 4. The removal of fail safes and actually launching the response, whilst co ordinating any defensive measures. (Fun fact, the UK and EU has very little in the way of anti ballistic missile defences) 5. The possibility of it being a mistake, and an overkill in response sets of a cascade of annihilation for everyone (This has happened several times !) At some point they might get to telling the public that the apocalypse has begun , but I wouldnt bank on it. When the US was talking about siting missiles in Poland, the Russians calculated they would have 2 minutes to clarify and respond. They found this rather scary too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, welsh1 said: Here's one for some to read.https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/kak-rossiya-stala-fashistskoy Seen articles in May at the time from Bonderov as any dissident from Russian Government was magnified in the mSM, this is simply a longer well rehearsed rehash of articles that came out previously and now paid for by an American NEOCON think-tank (Council on Foreign Relations). Short on facts and long on opinion and anecdote and comes across as upper class, university educated in diplomacy, anti-putin liberal who didn't like the way things operated and thought he knew better, was always right and the conscience of his country. Now where have we come across people like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 24 minutes ago, Stonepark said: Seen articles in May at the time from Bonderov as any dissident from Russian Government was magnified in the mSM, this is simply a longer well rehearsed rehash of articles that came out previously and now paid for by an American NEOCON think-tank (Council on Foreign Relations). Short on facts and long on opinion and anecdote and comes across as upper class, university educated in diplomacy, anti-putin liberal who didn't like the way things operated and thought he knew better, was always right and the conscience of his country. Now where have we come across people like that.... Tory cabinet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Stonepark said: From reading actual news from a multitude of sources and not simply repeating Ukraine's version of Goebbels which the MSM treat as words from God. Alexander Malkevich (you quoted earlier), was he not involved in meddling with us 2018 election process and before that setting up the (biased) news website USA Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 7 hours ago, welsh1 said: Comply or die. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/16/russian-troops-kill-ukrainian-musician-yuriy-kerpatenko-for-refusing-role-in-kherson-concert That must be up there with the "Russian soldiers are torturing villagers and ripping their gold teeth out" This was spread all over the media, including by prominent Ukrainian politicians. Problem was it was a complete fabrication, and easily proved as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 You’re right. When Putin invaded and started a war, the Russian troops were only equipped with kindness, poetry and the rare harsh word for the non compliant. All the blown up blocks of flats and dead people were staged by Zelensky and NATO. As for nuclear weapons. Blimey, when and where on earth did Russia get those. With this new development everyone should pull stumps on Ukraine right now and start talking to Estonia about getting the red carpet ready. Dear Lord there’s some nonsense on this thread. Still loving Darth Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 17, 2022 Report Share Posted October 17, 2022 this thread is amusing...even better than fat sarah or harnsers bunker..............but it is horribly complicated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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