The end of lead - Extract from the RSPB and WWT letter - via the BASC website

[Sweet11-87]

Idk I think you’re giving them too much credit with the “great conspiracy” agenda you seem to thinks going on. Like I said earlier they’ve been trying to get lead of everything for years.  
 

ok so the facts are it’s only toxic in certain forms. But nowhere is it good for you.  They’re pushing for it to go everywhere even in the states and you don’t get more pro gun than the US. 
 

it’s public perception. We’ve had it drilled into us for years that lead is bad. I mean you cannot blame them  For being hard to convince otherwise. Theirs evidence from Scandinavia  to support thst the use of steel for shot can absolutely kill effectively. 30 years of bringing down 10 ibs geese from very good distances and  is safe in Damascus barrels if the correct loads are used but people in here won’t buy its capable of killing pigeons at decoy range. 
 

people can be hard to convince if their minds made up or if they believe theirs an agenda behind it 
 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

ok so the facts are it’s only toxic in certain forms. But nowhere is it good for you.  They’re pushing for it to go everywhere even in the states and you don’t get more pro gun than the US. 

I dont know wjhere you get the idea theyre pushing for lead projectiles to be banned in the states ?
As you are probably aware , there is a very vocal lobby for guns to be restricted in the US , perhaps thats a conspiracy too ?
Anything that can make guns seem 'bad' will be seized upon, over there , over here, its just the shape of things.

3 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

Theirs evidence from Scandinavia  to support thst the use of steel for shot can absolutely kill effectively.

Im sure it can, but again , its not really about the relative small hit in efficacy against lead, its about cost.
Generally speaking , Skandi shooters arent too fussed about price, UK shooters are.
You are aware that Norway banned lead shot for some years , then bought its legal use back in ?

 

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/lead_shot_ban_vote_norway-42462#:~:text=The Norwegian parliament today (3,the Jegernes Interesseorganisasjon (JI).

3 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

people can be hard to convince if their minds made up or if they believe theirs an agenda behind it 

Of course theres an agenda behind it !
You just have to work out what the agenda is.
We are told its for public health issues for the less than  1 % of the population that eat lead shot game.
Yet other sources of lead poisoning , which affect a vastly larger percentage of the populace dont get a mention ?

[8 shot]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Of course theres an agenda behind it !
You just have to work out what the agenda is.
We are told its for public health issues for the less than  1 % of the population that eat lead shot game.

More and more little titbits are being fed to you on various media outlets. TGS did there bit yesterday on The Tube about the Game shooting  Assurance/ Acreditation schemes, all geared to keeping the Big Commercial/ Big Bag Game shoots going. From what i've seen and heard of it it's very similiar to the agricutural version, The Red Tractor scam. It is all about the likes of the BASC.NGO, Game Dealer Alliance or what ever they're called controlling game shooting to line there pockets. It will start off all lovely dovey then turn all very nasty when greed takes over, but by then it will be all to late. It's happening in farming now. Every thing will be controlled 

[Fellside]

Food for thought (no pun intended): much has been made of the National Game Dealers Association refusing to take lead shot game this year. However……..only 18 out of the UK’s 90 plus game dealers are members of the association. 

[blankfirer]

On 05/04/2022 at 20:31, PeterHenry said:

Without getting too deeply involved in this (because I don't have the time with work) - I came to the conclusion quite a while ago that BASC are playing politics here out of necessity. I would rarther not loose lead shot - but given the way the world is going, I would much rarther loose lead than loose shooting all together.

BASC aren't like the (American) NRA - they can't fall back on the constitution and threaten the governent with legal action relating to gun ownership in a broad sense, because our constitution dosent cover gun ownership. Because of that, their hands are tied - they have to move with the times and do as best they can because as soon as public opinion (and so the publics votes) turn against us, thats us done for.

To mix metaphors, BASC have seen the writing on the wall - and regardless of the veiws of the membership - if they hadn't played ball, then we would have all eventually lost a great deal more than lead shot (which we were going to loose anyway).  Plus - they would have looked inept, instead of scoring points by being able to say they helped (with others) to proactively set the tone. Face counts for quite a bit in politics at the end of the day.

Regardless, going against public opinion and the prevailing political will, is frankly akin to pushing water up hill.

Absolutely spot on  just look at wild justice targeting game meat once it is lead free they have nothing to fight (free range . sustainable.ethical meat to feed yourselves and also the population through supermarkets .you will have the general public buying venison and pheasants etc and look at us in a different light 

[Newbie to this]

9 minutes ago, blankfirer said:

Absolutely spot on  just look at wild justice targeting game meat once it is lead free they have nothing to fight (free range . sustainable.ethical meat to feed yourselves and also the population through supermarkets .you will have the general public buying venison and pheasants etc and look at us in a different light 

It's not the 1st you know, that was 15 days ago

[grahamch]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

 

Is reared game really 'free range . sustainable.ethical meat'?

Surely if it so good what bother shoot pheasants etc. and not just rear free range from for direct slaughter and sale?

 

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Is reared game really 'free range . sustainable.ethical meat'?

Surely if it so good what bother shoot pheasants etc. and not just rear free range from for direct slaughter and sale?

 

Pheasants aren’t raised any differently to the free range chickens I know of! How would you describe the way they are raised if not free range? 
 

[Fellside]

23 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Is reared game really 'free range . sustainable.ethical meat'?

Surely if it so good what bother shoot pheasants etc. and not just rear free range from for direct slaughter and sale?

 

I understand the pragmatism behind your point. However think on this: 60% of small woods in farmland Britain are used for pheasant shooting. How vulnerable would they be if they didn’t ‘earn their keep’ for shooting?

Anyway, as well wildlife/habitat benefits, personally I’d rather kill pheasants when their going like rockets at a good height. If chickens flew like that, we’d be releasing those too……🙂

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, grahamch said:

Is reared game really 'free range . sustainable.ethical meat'?

Surely if it so good what bother shoot pheasants etc. and not just rear free range from for direct slaughter and sale?

 

Did you quote me by mistake?

[enfieldspares]

On 08/04/2022 at 10:20, Rewulf said:

And there it is in a nutshell. You know that's not going to happen, and why? 

Because its nothing to do with lead, and everything to do with shooting. 

This. the big bag estates could self police this. But they can't be bothered. So everybody else then has to be damned. 

On 09/04/2022 at 17:25, 8 shot said:

More and more little titbits are being fed to you on various media outlets. TGS did there bit yesterday on The Tube about the Game shooting  Assurance/ Acreditation schemes, all geared to keeping the Big Commercial/ Big Bag Game shoots going. From what i've seen and heard of it it's very similiar to the agricutural version, The Red Tractor scam. It is all about the likes of the BASC.NGO, Game Dealer Alliance or what ever they're called controlling game shooting to line there pockets. It will start off all lovely dovey then turn all very nasty when greed takes over, but by then it will be all to late. It's happening in farming now. Every thing will be controlled 

And this. BASC lent BGA £250,000. Protected by a charge on the assets of BGA? Erm...what assets? Yet when it could have made a difference couldn't even invest but 10% or 5% of that on the threat of and Judicial Review of the arbitrary decision of some Chief Constables to mandate no Medical Certificate = no SGC. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by enfieldspares

[grahamch]

3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Did you quote me by mistake?

yep apologies

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

This. the big bag estates could self police this. But they can't be bothered. So everybody else then has to be damned. 

And this. BASC lent BGA £250,000. Protected by a charge on the assets of BGA? Erm...what assets? Yet when it could have made a difference couldn't even invest but 10% or 5% of that on the threat of and Judicial Review of the arbitrary decision of some Chief Constables to mandate no Medical Certificate = no SGC. 

I strongly agree with your last point. BASC seem to be a little like the UN peacekeepers. All observation and reporting - no fight. Where’s their fight gone?? 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

This. the big bag estates could self police this. But they can't be bothered. So everybody else then has to be damned. 

 

As far as I’m aware, all those I know of anyhow, are, which is why all of them used lead last season. It isn’t the big bag estates calling for a lead ban.